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Dad finds out that none of his kids are biologically his.

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 4,798 ✭✭✭goose2005


    Takes a real horrible person to do something like that to a man. And not just once. She must be a right deceitful cow. I think paternity testing should be offered to all couples as standard. It can have so many consequences to think the wrong person is the dad. Financial, psychological, medical.

    the problem is, it would lead to quite a few murders


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,032 ✭✭✭ceadaoin.


    Jaysus, that would be some destruction to a relationship if yer man says he wants the paternity test and she hasn't as much as looked at another bloke.

    Imagine the government offering a service based on the premise that women are deceitful cheats. Nothing wrong with that at all. Nope

    Let's also make all males submit dna based on the premise that they are all potential rapists. That would help with finding the fathers too. What's not to like? Wonder would that go down so well on here?

    Aside from the fact that it's minority of women who do this, surely it could lead to violence and endanger the lives of women and children, and the men who might be the father, in some cases

    If someone has concerns about paternity they can arrange their own test. It's not something that should be mandatory or offered as a service for all couples.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,797 ✭✭✭✭hatrickpatrick


    The concept that caring about one's genetic lineage - considered by many to be the ultimate meaning of life - is somehow silly or childish, which is often pedalled in feminist forums when the subject of paternity fraud comes up, is something I find unbelievably disturbing and genuingly just very saddening. The idea that a man shouldn't care whether or not he's successfully propagated his genetic line which has replicated itself for the last four billion years, and has no right to be upset or pissed off at discovering that he's been lied to about it, is utterly twisted and repulsive - but it's frightening just how frequent the argument is, that as long as you develop an emotional bond, you shouldn't care whether your own blood flows through your kid's veins and that you're somehow a lesser person if you do.

    I really hope it's just a fringe belief on the internet, because it's just incredible sad. To the nihilistic mind, if life is here by accident then it's a beautiful convergence of happenstance, and being denied the chance to take part in that by being falsely told that you already have, is monstrous.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,797 ✭✭✭✭hatrickpatrick


    ceadaoin. wrote: »
    Imagine the government offering a service based on the premise that women are deceitful cheats. Nothing wrong with that at all. Nope

    Why shouldn't every father and son have an absolute guarantee of their genetic identity, rather than having to rely on a third party to choose to provide it?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,365 ✭✭✭Alrigghtythen


    She should have to pay him every red cent he contributed to raising those children, and the 4 million.

    Scummy thing to do but happens more than is though


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,807 ✭✭✭Jurgen Klopp


    The concept that caring about one's genetic lineage - considered by many to be the ultimate meaning of life - is somehow silly or childish, which is often pedalled in feminist forums when the subject of paternity fraud comes up, is something I find unbelievably disturbing and genuingly just very saddening. The idea that a man shouldn't care whether or not he's successfully propagated his genetic line which has replicated itself for the last four billion years, and has no right to be upset or pissed off at discovering that he's been lied to about it, is utterly twisted and repulsive - but it's frightening just how frequent the argument is, that as long as you develop an emotional bond, you shouldn't care whether your own blood flows through your kid's veins and that you're somehow a lesser person if you do.

    I really hope it's just a fringe belief on the internet, because it's just incredible sad. To the nihilistic mind, if life is here by accident then it's a beautiful convergence of happenstance, and being denied the chance to take part in that by being falsely told that you already have, is monstrous.

    It's only a small amount. 99% of men and women are seething when such things are revealed

    You mention feminist forums, there's gonna be a higher percentage of nuts who think it's ok to do that on a forum like that compared to a general forum and then even less so in real life


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,032 ✭✭✭ceadaoin.


    Why shouldn't every father and son have an absolute guarantee of their genetic identity, rather than having to rely on a third party to choose to provide it?

    If they want that there is nothing stopping them paying for it privately. Also, why only father and son?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,553 ✭✭✭Fiery mutant


    So a woman with no apparent talent of her own gets 4 million in divorce, just because she happened to marry someone who was an entrepreneur and a hard worker who would work his ass off to give his family a great life.

    Said hard working man who spent his life busting his gut for his family, then finds his whole married life was a con, then only gets awarded €250k for his trouble.

    What a ****ed up world we live in.

    We should defend our way of life to an extent that any attempt on it is crushed, so that any adversary will never make such an attempt in the future.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,606 ✭✭✭gctest50



    who was an entrepreneur and a hard worker who would work his ass off to give his family a great life.


    Maybe he wouldn't have "made it" without her help at the critical early stages - most startup thingys fail


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,032 ✭✭✭ceadaoin.


    It's only a small amount. 99% of men and women are seething when such things are revealed

    You mention feminist forums, there's gonna be a higher percentage of nuts who think it's ok to do that on a forum like that compared to a general forum and then even less so in real life

    I don't know, I don't think even "feminist nuts" think it's ok to do this. Probably they are more thinking of the impact on the kids of having the person they grew up thinking was their father suddenly disappear. Surely trying to maintain some kind of relationship is best for everyone. No doubt the "father" will also love the children like his own.

    In this case I think the kids had already cut contact with him due to his behaviour.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 198 ✭✭ Avalyn Scarce Gear


    Jaysus, that would be some destruction to a relationship if yer man says he wants the paternity test and she hasn't as much as looked at another bloke.

    Typical emotional blackmail. It should be mandatory to DNA test both people involved to avoid these scenarios. Typical boards response though.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,576 ✭✭✭✭josip


    The french have one of the worst reputations for extra marital infidelity.
    So much so that they banned DNA testing for fear of the impact on society.

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/french-men-s-insecurity-over-paternity-of-offspring-creating-a-society-of-doubt-1.773569


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,474 ✭✭✭Obvious Desperate Breakfasts


    Is it unusual to be diagnosed with cystic fibrosis so late?

    Glad she didn’t get away with it anyway. But what an awful shock for him. Cystic fibrosis AND the realisation that his children weren’t his. That is just tough all round. Are men with cystic fibrosis always infertile? I’m sure it’s been proven that he is anyway.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,183 ✭✭✭99nsr125


    gctest50 wrote: »
    It goes on a fair bit

    Up to 1 in 6 Canadians are victims of paternity fraud

    1 in 4 in the UK


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,482 ✭✭✭Gimme A Pound


    What a ****.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,797 ✭✭✭✭hatrickpatrick


    ceadaoin. wrote: »
    If they want that there is nothing stopping them paying for it privately.

    Except that this puts every man in a "remain ignorant or get dumped" quandry. No win situation.
    Also, why only father and son?

    Projection on my part, apologies. When I typed up my two posts here I was just thinking how utterly devastated I'd be if I found out that I wasn't related to my dad and that his family's long history in Ireland (we have a lot of revolutionaries among our ancestors) was therefore irrelevant to me - that that blood didn't actually run through my veins. Didn't mean to be exclusionary at all, was just thinking about myself.

    I don't believe that anything close to a majority of people would betray someone like this, but I do believe that a large enough proportion of human beings are selfish assholes that people should be protected from having their lives destroyed so fundamentally on the off chance that someone in their life happens to be one. Robbing someone of their blood identity is evil beyond belief.

    For the record, I also advocate that adopted children should be told that they're adopted from the youngest age that they can understand what it means, to avoid traumatic heartbreak later in life after being misled throughout childhood.

    Genetic identity is simply something I do not believe should be left at the mercy of chance or the hope that someone isn't a scumbag. There are enough scumbags in the world that blind faith shouldn't be good enough when it comes to this. Maybe it isn't as important to others as it is to me, but I can't put into words how soul-destroying it would be for me to be told that my family aren't actually my genetic family, and I believe that however small a percentage of people this happens to, it's so awful and soul destroying that it's worth protecting everyone from even the remote possibility of this happening to them. Remove chance from the equation altogether and certify peoples' genetic identity as a matter of scientific fact rather than blind faith.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,287 ✭✭✭givyjoe


    ceadaoin. wrote: »
    If they want that there is nothing stopping them paying for it privately. Also, why only father and son?

    Consent from all parties is required for these tests no? Clinics will not do the tests or give results unless both consent to the test.

    Open to correction but someone close to me had to go through the above to have something similar confirmed.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,287 ✭✭✭givyjoe


    ceadaoin. wrote: »
    I don't know, I don't think even "feminist nuts" think it's ok to do this. Probably they are more thinking of the impact on the kids of having the person they grew up thinking was their father suddenly disappear. Surely trying to maintain some kind of relationship is best for everyone. No doubt the "father" will also love the children like his own.

    In this case I think the kids had already cut contact with him due to his behaviour.

    One of the kids at least, had not. Read the story elsewhere. One of the kids said "if you sue mum, I'll cut contact with you". Pretty fcuked up response seen as she took the guy to the cleaners in the divorce.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,708 ✭✭✭lertsnim


    She is a dirty whore.


  • Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    99nsr125 wrote: »
    1 in 4 in the UK
    gctest50 wrote: »
    It goes on a fair bit

    Up to 1 in 6 Canadians are victims of paternity fraud
    Neither of these figures are correct. This is the rate of paternity fraud where the father already suspects the children are not his.

    Across the entire population, the most recent UK study puts it at 1 in 50.

    A more recent study of suspicious men increased this 1 in 4 to 1 in 2.

    Which is good news; If you think your kids are not yours and you're so suspicious that you go as far as getting a DNA test, then there's only a 50% chance that you're right.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,474 ✭✭✭Obvious Desperate Breakfasts


    Maternity is a fact, paternity is an opinion.

    Steve Jobs tried that one alright. Saying that half the men in America could be his daughter’s father or something. :pac:


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,344 ✭✭✭Ray Palmer


    gctest50 wrote: »
    Maybe he wouldn't have "made it" without her help at the critical early stages - most startup thingys fail

    You know I completely buy that as a reason for divorce payments being split equally. The things is that is not true in many cases. In this case she was allowed not work to raise the family but it wasn't his family. She couldn't have children with him so she effectively got him to pay for her lifestyle while cheating him.

    Paternity fraud is an interesting issue for many reasons. It delves into what being a father is and also the control women have and how sexist the systems are.

    There are cases where women intentionally lied to men about being fathers and got no punishment with the men still needing to pay maintenance. Including stories of men who married women that they believed were carrying their child.

    There most certainly be a punishment for such fraud.

    When any women who claims misandry doesn't exist because it isn't backed up by the state there is an example. Then of course there is how fathers are treated in the courts.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,474 ✭✭✭Obvious Desperate Breakfasts


    Jaysus, that would be some destruction to a relationship if yer man says he wants the paternity test and she hasn't as much as looked at another bloke.

    Yeah, it’s a weird one. I’ve no children so this is all hypothetical but if my husband asked for a paternity test, I’d agree without hesitation - nothing to hide and all - but it would change our relationship for sure. I’d just think he didn’t trust me. And I realise a lot is at stake but it would definitely change the relationship dynamic.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,606 ✭✭✭gctest50


    seamus wrote: »
    Neither of these figures are correct. This is the rate of paternity fraud where the father already suspects the children are not his..........
    .

    You'd have bias there though, how suspicious were they before the test ?


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,028 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    ceadaoin. wrote: »
    I don't know, I don't think even "feminist nuts" think it's ok to do this. Probably they are more thinking of the impact on the kids of having the person they grew up thinking was their father suddenly disappear. Surely trying to maintain some kind of relationship is best for everyone. No doubt the "father" will also love the children like his own.

    In this case I think the kids had already cut contact with him due to his behaviour.
    From what I've gathered they only cut contact after all this came out. IIRC one of his sons keeps in touch. The other kids have some neck to cut him off, given he was their dad in name and raised and paid for their fancy educations etc. Though I'd not be surprised if she poisoned that relationship and kids often will side with their ma. What about their biological father? I wonder what their attitude is to him, though it seems he's completely out of the picture.

    And as for "best for everyone", for the kids maybe yes, the wife can bugger off in a situation like that, the father would want to have some level of forgiveness built in. I'd not have it TBH.

    I would consider this a way more serious crime than it's taken for. Consider the horrible crime of rape. One final horror of that is if the woman ends up pregnant and ends up carrying a kid she had no choice in conceiving(if she doesn't terminate). And it's still her kid. Being duped into raising a few kids over decades and finding out they're not yours? Jesus Christ. I'd be close to murderous TBH. And no it's not the same as adoption. That's a choice.

    You would think he might have been suspicious with the whole her insisting on Jewish names for the kids though. Which also suggests she knew he wasn't their father. I suppose he just trusted her. Naturally enough. Nasty devious cow and no mistake.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,576 ✭✭✭✭josip


    seamus wrote: »
    Neither of these figures are correct. This is the rate of paternity fraud where the father already suspects the children are not his.

    Across the entire population, the most recent UK study puts it at 1 in 500.
    ...


    Did you mean 1 in 50 ?
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paternity_fraud


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,562 ✭✭✭ahnowbrowncow


    seamus wrote: »
    Neither of these figures are correct. This is the rate of paternity fraud where the father already suspects the children are not his.

    Across the entire population, the most recent UK study puts it at 1 in 50.

    A more recent study of suspicious men increased this 1 in 4 to 1 in 2.

    Which is good news; If you think your kids are not yours and you're so suspicious that you go as far as getting a DNA test, then there's only a 50% chance that you're right.


    Only 50%? What are you trying to say about my wife?


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,028 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    seamus wrote: »
    Which is good news; If you think your kids are not yours and you're so suspicious that you go as far as getting a DNA test, then there's only a 50% chance that you're right.
    Would you trust your life to a parachute that only opened half the time? I wouldn't.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.





  • While this is a very sad case, to say that he’s infertile from birth because of Cystic Fibrosis, is alarmist. He may be infertile, but not all CF sufferers are.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,860 ✭✭✭Mrsmum


    That's a rough deal. It's not really even about the money (as I'm sure he enjoyed being 'dad') but just the awful deceit of it.


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