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Journalism and cycling

  • 04-10-2016 6:15am
    #1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,368 ✭✭✭Chuchote


    A piece in The Irish Times today begins by talking about the death of Donna Fox, crushed to death by a truck as she cycled through Dublin.
    http://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/why-cycling-safety-is-a-two-way-street-1.2815097

    The piece is, altogether, 724 words. But almost half of that, 288 words, is given over to a rant about "cyclists who win no sympathy from motorists".
    Unfortunately, while many conscientious cyclists are victims of this lack of investment, there are also many cyclists who win no sympathy from motorists, truck and bus drivers because of the way they rampage through Dublin’s streets. No light is red enough, no gap between cars or worse between the sides of two double-deckers is narrow enough and no pedestrian crossing is off limits enough to prevent cyclists from charging through.
    I have been cycling into work from the western suburbs for more than 30 years and in that time have seen the most reckless and downright dangerous cycling that can be imagined.
    I have seen mothers with infants in push chairs scattering to get out of the way of cyclists who think they should speed through a red light at a pedestrian crossing. For many of these cyclists loss of right of way at a lighted intersection really only means you have to slow down a bit before cutting across a moving bus or car.
    The Dáil passed legislation about a year ago giving the Garda Síochána the power to impose instant fines on cyclists breaking traffic lights. While the media reported some cyclists being stopped, the initiative didn’t stem the stream of bikes rolling through intersections at will.
    It is unrealistic to believe the gardaí have the resources to enforce the laws related to cycling on urban streets. But maybe a big crackdown is needed to force cyclists to stick to the rules of the road in the same way as required of drivers. Motorists have to stop when the lights go red at a pedestrian crossing even if there are no pedestrians. Why don’t cyclists? Who gave them the right to break lights?

    (Sorry for the long quote, but it's necessary to show the sheer stupidity).

    And a long extrapolated quote is used as a caption:
    ‘There are also many cyclists who win no sympathy from motorists, truck and bus drivers because of the way they rampage through Dublin’s streets. No light is red enough, no gap between cars or worse between the sides of two double-deckers is narrow enough and no pedestrian crossing is off limits enough to prevent cyclists from charging through.’

    Even the headline is extraordinary - I would think that it endangers people cycling in Dublin: "Why cycling safety is a two-way street". What? I'm only entitled to cycle in safety if all cyclists keep all traffic laws?

    The tastelessness of this piece, apart from the utter stupidity, is typical of the way cycling and "cyclists" - as if we are a single body of people - are written about in Ireland. Is there any way to tackle this?


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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 14,229 ✭✭✭✭ednwireland


    Getting really sick of the divide and rule that is been pushed from somwhere (gov, Press I don't know), it's everywhere workers v unemployed. Public vs private sector, cyclists vs motorists. Landlords vs tenants the list goes on.

    Do I need to go on ? I'm in a job that hasn't had a pay rise in 10 years. Im not putting the rent up on small property I rent probably the cheapest rent around even up here.

    CanT we all relax and get on a bit more ?

    Probably totally OT for the cycling forum sorry.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,368 ✭✭✭Chuchote


    Damn straight. It's Trumpism Irish-style, the politics of envy - with the envy, weirdly, mostly being directed downwards. Scotes! Scroungers! Why should I pay for libraries, mate, I don't read!

    John Lanchester had a brilliant piece some years back about this (to search for it, the best way is to look for "the shít we're in"!) from which my favourite line is "the trouble with the poor is that they have too much money".

    http://www.lrb.co.uk/v35/n01/john-lanchester/lets-call-it-failure


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Newspaper print populist stories as it sells papers. As motorists are the largest group they will print stories that appeal to that market. Hence the commonality in these articles that seem imo to have anti cycling bias and pro driver bias.

    The fact that studies show that cyclist behaviour has little effect on accidents. But that it's mainly driver behaviour that causes it. Would not be popular with drivers so they won't publish those facts very often. It's also why enforcement of cycling laws won't have much of an effect.

    There is an issue that law breaking probably has an impact on anti cycling sentiment.

    Just because some one has been cycling for 30yrs doesn't mean that have done any research on the facts and statistics of accidents. The lack of any link to such studies is a credibility problem for such opinion pieces. It's the usual victim blaming.

    It takes the focus of poor driving and the lack of infrastructure and investment.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,037 ✭✭✭buffalo


    ** whataboutery alert **

    I've never seen a piece on motorway funding mention the high percentage of motorists who speed, use mobiles, etc.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,368 ✭✭✭Chuchote


    If lawbreaking has an impact on sentiment, ok, let's start posting photos and videos of drivers using mobile phones, zipping through lights after they've turned red, whipping right around no-right-turn turns, close-passing cyclists, speeding, parking in cycle lanes, failing to indicate in time or at all, dooring, suddenly deciding they want to park on the other side of Dame Street and hanging a speedy U-ey, using bus lanes, taking to the wrong side of solid-white-line roads to pass cyclists then swinging across in front of them to turn left, blaring music that must make them unconscious of the road and its other users…
    People only notice the few cyclists who act like brats because they have been fed the idea that "cyclists" break road rules.
    Perhaps if they realised how little drivers keep the same rules it might soften their cough for them?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 9,249 ✭✭✭Macy0161


    buffalo wrote: »
    ** whataboutery alert **

    I've never seen a piece on motorway funding mention the high percentage of motorists who speed, use mobiles, etc.
    As I keep on saying, so much motorist law breaking is so normalised it isn't even seen as law breaking. Try driving around at the speed limit and see the build up behind you, or everyone passing you out if it's dual carriageway or motorway. Everyone (eventually) stops for traffic lights. For those couple of minutes, they might see a cyclist break a red to take a left. They'll have a give out, maybe a rant live on twitter. And then when the lights change they'll get back up to a cruising speed above the speed limit without a second thought about law breaking... If they try and enforce the speed limit, it's all shooting fish in a barrel!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,368 ✭✭✭Chuchote


    In San Francisco, cyclists reacted to one of these "Cyclists All Break Red Lights" rants by a mass protest in which they stopped at every light and stop sign. Traffic ground to a halt! (Nobody's mentioning this in the comments on the IT piece.)
    http://road.cc/content/news/160118-san-francisco-cyclists-protest-obeying-traffic-rules
    In Idaho and in Paris, cyclists can use red lights and stop signs as 'Yield' signs, going through when it's safe to do so.
    http://www.latimes.com/opinion/livable-city/la-oe-babin-bicycle-laws-20161003-snap-story.html


  • Registered Users Posts: 494 ✭✭Billgirlylegs


    Are you suggesting this is a media driven campaign?

    In my opinion, all your points are valid in relation to drivers; there are "brats" driving around in cars as you describe.

    Dooring is basic stupidity/carelessness, parking in a cycle lane is lack of manners / inconvenient, but these are hazards for everyone. The u-turn, speeding antics are likewise hazards for everyone, not restricted to cyclists.

    However, driving on footpaths? driving on the wrong side of the road? driving across pedestrian crossings? driving incorrectly on a one way street?
    How many times have you seen it?
    Cyclists do it all day, everyday.

    Numbers driving through red lights compared to cyclists doing likewise? One in five I reckon, is being extremely generous.
    Numbers of drivers overtaking in a dangerous fashion compared to cyclists "sharing" occupied lanes, overtaking on the left of a vehicle indicating left / in tight spaces?
    One for one? I don't think so.

    There isn't a media driven campaign. The behaviour of a significant proportion (more than 50%) of cyclists is a big pain, sometimes dangerous to others - pedestrians, cyclists and motorists - and that is why there are so many negative articles and comments.
    I don't see major inaccuracy in the article and I don't see a problem with the timing.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,368 ✭✭✭Chuchote


    @Billgirlylegs You haven't been looking at the statistics. The Road Safety Association, scarcely a cyclist-friendly group, did a big study (25,000+ cyclists) of how many cyclists go through red lights recently: 1 in 8 was the number. Nothing like the numbers you're claiming.

    http://irishcycle.com/2016/05/26/only-1-in-8-cyclists-run-red-lights-says-study-of-60-irish-junctions/
    http://www.independent.ie/life/motoring/car-news/revealed-how-cyclists-drivers-fare-on-helmets-and-foglights-34743099.html

    How many cars go through? My own, amateur, estimate would be that three or four cars tend to zip through after the lights have gone red on most light-changes. And this is really dangerous.

    A cyclist (say 150kg of human on a 15kg bicycle) who goes through a red light is endangering only himself or herself (if that) in virtually all cases; usually s/he has checked that there's nothing coming. A car (say 2 tons) is a weaponised metal projectile, and going much faster. If it hits you, you're going to be badly hurt.

    Some figures on cars hitting people:
    • If someone is hit by a car at 65kph they are 90% likely to be killed
    • If someone is hit by a car at 50kph they are 50% likely to be killed
    • If someone is hit by a car at 30kph they are 10% likely to be killed


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,762 ✭✭✭jive


    Cyclists should be allowed to proceed slowly through pedestrian crossing reds (like the flashing amber for motor vehicles - go ahead if it's safe to do so). They should also be able to turn left on red.

    All of a sudden, the only major thing motorists have to throw at cyclists is out the window; not to mention the fact that the above makes sense given that a bicycle is not a 2 tonne vehicle.

    Also, more to the point, none of this would be an issue if there was a bit more patience from cyclists and motorists. Your time isn't that valuable, get over yourselves. :)!


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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 47,997 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    buffalo wrote: »
    ** whataboutery alert **

    I've never seen a piece on motorway funding mention the high percentage of motorists who speed, use mobiles, etc.
    i threw that in as a comment on the article for you.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 47,997 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    However, driving on footpaths? driving on the wrong side of the road? driving across pedestrian crossings? driving incorrectly on a one way street?
    How many times have you seen it?
    Cyclists do it all day, everyday.
    you can't cite things that cars *cannot* do as something they *do* not do, can you?


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,177 ✭✭✭✭greenspurs


    There isn't a media driven campaign. The behaviour of a significant proportion (more than 50%) of cyclists is a big pain, sometimes dangerous to others - pedestrians, cyclists and motorists - and that is why there are so many negative articles and comments.
    I don't see major inaccuracy in the article and I don't see a problem with the timing.

    Id like to see the stats, if you have them ? :confused:

    Anti cyclist seems to be the last minute "feck it I need a piece for my column" setting for 'journalists' ....
    There are stupid motorists, and there are stupid cyclists, its just motorists can kill, so I reckon the onus is on them to not kill someone due to their careless driving !

    "Bright lights and Thunder .................... "



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 47,997 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    There isn't a media driven campaign. The behaviour of a significant proportion (more than 50%) of cyclists is a big pain, sometimes dangerous to others
    also, source.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,368 ✭✭✭Chuchote


    Cars driving the wrong way down one-way streets? See it often - and again, many cities allow cyclists to contraflow on one-ways as it's safe.

    Cars driving across pedestrian crossings? Say what? But cyclists going across parallel to pedestrian crossings is perfectly safe; cycling among the pedestrian crossings is rude, but generally not unsafe.

    Driving on the wrong side of the road? Well, for example, a few days ago I passed out a bus at the stop at Rathmines Garda Station, signalling that I wanted to take the fork immediately after it. A driver drove his car past me on the right, crossing the white line, then swerved across me to take the left-hand fork. He or she would have had to pause for perhaps five seconds behind me to legally go left.

    Driving on the pavement: have you ever walked down Beaver Row, to take one example? Pavements are for walking? Naah, they're for parking!

    https://www.google.ie/maps/@53.3175953,-6.2342485,3a,60y,74.94h,76.04t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s2QQNlUy4zY59L2rlO8nIXw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 19,474 Mod ✭✭✭✭Weepsie


    Chuchote wrote: »

    A cyclist (say 150kg of human on a 15kg bicycle) who goes through a red light is endangering only himself or herself (if that) in virtually all cases;

    This line gets thrown out a lot and in terms of physical injury obviously true. What of the psychological impact of someone being hit because they've gone through a red light? That can be devastating for the other party.

    Maybe not relevant to the OP, but again it's not looking at these things from all possible angles and a little amount of whataboutery in there. Just think when, if you're breaking a light and you're in an accident, there is generally another party who didn't need to be in that accident*

    *I've had accidents with absolutely noone around.


  • Registered Users Posts: 136 ✭✭AlreadyHome


    Will people here be making the effort to write to the journalist in question? You never know - engage the journalist sufficiently and he might start thinking "There's a sizeable audience for cycling related pieces. Maybe I'll keep going on this". I find the comment section under pieces just a useless free-for-all most of the time.

    Sure, he might be a bit of a prat now, but keep at him and he might change his tune.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,368 ✭✭✭Chuchote


    Weepsie wrote: »
    This line gets thrown out a lot and in terms of physical injury obviously true. What of the psychological impact of someone being hit because they've gone through a red light? That can be devastating for the other party.

    Maybe not relevant to the OP, but again it's not looking at these things from all possible angles and a little amount of whataboutery in there. Just think when, if you're breaking a light and you're in an accident, there is generally another party who didn't need to be in that accident*

    *I've had accidents with absolutely noone around.

    Certainly true, Weepsie, but again, the statistics are that cyclists going through red lights cause very few accidents. And in many cities, cyclists are now allowed to run reds if it's safe:

    https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2009/dec/15/cycling-bike-accidents-study

    https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2015/oct/27/cyclists-run-red-lights-paris-london-san-francisco


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,116 ✭✭✭Peterx


    Chuchote wrote: »
    Damn straight. It's Trumpism Irish-style, the politics of envy - with the envy, weirdly, mostly being directed downwards. Scotes! Scroungers! Why should I pay for libraries, mate, I don't read!

    John Lanchester had a brilliant piece some years back about this (to search for it, the best way is to look for "the shít we're in"!) from which my favourite line is "the trouble with the poor is that they have too much money".

    http://www.lrb.co.uk/v35/n01/john-lanchester/lets-call-it-failure

    I learned a new word in that article which does nicely sum up the issue
    mythopoesis
    Mythopoeia is a narrative genre in modern literature and film where a fictional or artificial mythology is created by the writer of prose or other fiction.

    There are many myths about cyclists, my favourite one is that there is a "we" at all. A lot of the time there are just people commuting who happen to be on a bike as it suits them at this moment in time, it's either cheaper or quicker. These people are not cyclists, if driving or the bus or walking was cheaper or quicker they would sell the bike.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,735 ✭✭✭✭tomasrojo


    Motorists have to stop when the lights go red at a pedestrian crossing even if there are no pedestrians.

    Actually, this is one of the most persistent offences done by motorists. Especially left turns through pedestrian crossings when there is only a straight-ahead green, and barrelling through pedestrian crossings that aren't at a junction, where there is no risk to the driver from collisions with cross-traffic.


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  • However, driving on footpaths? driving on the wrong side of the road? driving across pedestrian crossings? driving incorrectly on a one way street?
    How many times have you seen it?

    Driving on footpaths - all day, every day, all over Dublin. The standard Dublin parking procedure appears to be 'two wheels up on the pavement' wherever people can get away with it. That's why we have bollards along the pavement all over the city.

    Wrong side of the road isn't common but nor is it common for cyclists. You see the odd idiot doing it, but it's hardly something to be concerned about.

    Driving across pedestrian crossings? ALL THE TIME. Are you blind? Stand at a pedestrian crossing and count how many cars break the amber and red light. Try it. The difference is they kill people who aren't aware that the average Dublin driver thinks amber and the first couple of seconds of red mean 'speed up'.

    Driving incorrectly on a one-way street is also common enough, I see that done frequently. Not as often as cyclists, but still common.

    Road deaths caused by motor vehicles year to date: 138
    Road deaths caused by a cyclist / pedestrian incident: 1

    The latter was a cyclist killed whilst cycling on a cycle path.

    Open your eyes and engage your brain.


  • Registered Users Posts: 641 ✭✭✭DanDublin1982


    Biillgirlylegs What are you basing that 50℅ on?

    I'll be honest the article isnt all that bad imo. Some of the phraseology is certainly questionable but his over riding points are 1)better infrastructure is needed 2) those who act the bo11ocks should stop doing so and 3) action on the first will help with the second.

    I think we all pretty much agree with those three things.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,368 ✭✭✭Chuchote


    Will people here be making the effort to write to the journalist in question? You never know - engage the journalist sufficiently and he might start thinking "There's a sizeable audience for cycling related pieces. Maybe I'll keep going on this". I find the comment section under pieces just a useless free-for-all most of the time.

    Sure, he might be a bit of a prat now, but keep at him and he might change his tune.

    It might be worth cc'ing him in on emails today to Dublin City Councillors in relation to the Liffey Cycleway, with many of the points being made here - perhaps sending the emails to the Letters page lettersed@irishtimes.com


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 27,834 ✭✭✭✭ThisRegard


    However, driving on footpaths? driving on the wrong side of the road? driving across pedestrian crossings? driving incorrectly on a one way street?
    How many times have you seen it?
    Cyclists do it all day, everyday.

    As do people driving cars. Don't know what utopia you're posting from to think otherwise.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 19,474 Mod ✭✭✭✭Weepsie


    tomasrojo wrote: »
    Actually, this is one of the most persistent offences done by motorists. Especially left turns through pedestrian crossings when there is only a straight-ahead green, and barrelling through pedestrian crossings that aren't at a junction, where there is no risk to the driver from collisions with cross-traffic.

    Saw it this morning in fact, outside a school. Have the reg. Should probably report it to traffic watch


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,461 ✭✭✭mcgratheoin


    The behaviour of a significant proportion (more than 50%) of cyclists is a big pain, sometimes dangerous to others - pedestrians, cyclists and motorists - and that is why there are so many negative articles and comments.

    Well that's just incorrect. I cycle a 40km round trip each day including the quays in Dublin and dangerous behaviour is not the dominant observation of any road user. Most cyclists stop for red lights but not all, most cars stop for red lights but not all of them. This morning I saw two cyclists make left turns on red and I saw a van and car try to cross Pearse St heading north on Macken Street when there was no space for them, thus blocking all traffic heading east on Pearse Street for an entire cycle of lights. Plenty of pedestrians also walked out across the road without adequately checking for traffic.
    The problem with these articles is that
    1. any article about cycling seems incomplete without a measure of victim-blaming and a rant about poor cyclist behaviour
    2. the proportion of cyclists breaking the laws is always exaggerated
    3. other poor behaviour on the roads is ignored, both driving and pedestrian
    4. a false equivalence is generated between the dangers of poor cycling behaviour and poor driving behaviour
    5. all cyclists and cycling lobby groups are tarred with the same brush in a way that driving lobby groups e.g. Conor Faughnan and the AA are not

    Given the recent craven attempt by the Dept. of Transport to undermine the express intent and will of a Ministerial decision by casting doubt over legislation that they themselves created, the car-centric focus of the RSA, the lack of anything bar lip-service to the National Cycle Policy's goal of having 10% of journeys made my bike in 2020 and the repeated cyclist bashing articles in national media, it is difficult to believe that cycling is getting a fair hearing nationally.

    As an aside, here are the 19 objectives of the NCPF - I'll let others judge how well these have been implemented over the last 7 years.

    Objective 1: Support the planning, development and design of towns and cities in a cycling and pedestrian friendly way.
    Objective 2: Ensure that the urban road infrastructure(with the exception of motorways) is designed /retrofitted so as to be cyclist-friendly and that traffic management measures are also cyclist friendly.
    Objective 3: Provide designated rural cycle networks especially for visitors and recreational cycling.
    Objective 4: Provide cycling-friendly routes to all schools, adequate cycling parking facilities within schools, and cycling training to all school pupils.
    Objective 5: Ensure that all of the surfaces used by cyclists are maintained to a high standard and are well lit.
    Objective 6: Ensure that all cycling networks - both urban and rural - are signposted to an agreed standard.
    Objective 7: Provide secure parking for bikes.
    Objective 8: Ensure proper integration between cycling and public transport.
    Objective 9: Provide public bikes in cities.
    Objective 10: Improve the image of cycling and promote cycling using “soft interventions” such as promotional campaigns, events etc.
    Objective 11: Improve cyclists’ cycling standards and behaviour on the roads.
    Objective 12: Improve driver education and driving standards so that there is a greater appreciation for the safety needs of cyclists.
    Objective 13: Support the provision of fiscal incentives to cycle.
    Objective 14: Provide appropriate levels of, and timely, financial resources towards implementing the NCPF.
    Objective 15: Introduce changes to legislation to improve cyclist safety.
    Objective 16: Improve enforcement of traffic laws to enhance cyclist safety and respect for cyclists.
    Objective 17: Develop a structure that can coordinate the implementation of activities across the many Government Departments, Agencies and NGO’s.
    Objective 18: Provide design professionals with suitable training / guidance to develop and implement the policies of the NCPF. Support the deepening of knowledge of the subject of planning for cyclists in Ireland.
    Objective 19: Evaluate the cycling policy and monitor the success as the measures are implemented.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 47,997 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    Weepsie wrote: »
    Saw it this morning in fact, outside a school. Have the reg. Should probably report it to traffic watch
    i live near the corner of ballymun road and glasnevin avenue. it's amazing how many people get the green light for straight ahead, and take it as a signal they can turn left - and when the lights are in that configuration, it's to allow the pedestrian lights to go green across that left hand turn. i recently saw three cars do it en masse.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,368 ✭✭✭Chuchote


    @mcgratheoin Could I suggest that you take that entire post and send it to all the Dublin City Councillors today (PM me for a list of their emails), and also to the Minister and The Irish Times?

    Today, because tomorrow the council is deciding on the Liffey Cycleway on the north quays. http://irishcycle.com/2016/10/03/liffey-cycle-route-to-be-kept-on-the-quays-in-surprising-but-welcomed-move/
    The outline of the new solution will be presented to councillors and other committee members on Wednesday [5 October 2016], it is then expected to be presented formally as part of the entire Liffey Cycle Route at the proceeding committee meeting on November 23.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 19,474 Mod ✭✭✭✭Weepsie


    i live near the corner of ballymun road and glasnevin avenue. it's amazing how many people get the green light for straight ahead, and take it as a signal they can turn left - and when the lights are in that configuration, it's to allow the pedestrian lights to go green across that left hand turn. i recently saw three cars do it en masse.

    I know that road as I go past it everyday albeit coming from the Northwood/Ballymun end. The sequence is very predictable, never too long a wait and yeah, always someone doing something stupid or taking a chance there, particularly those crossing from Glasnevin Avenue to the Collins Avenue Extension.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 9,249 ✭✭✭Macy0161


    However, driving on footpaths?
    Nearest miss I've ever had was on the grade separated cycle lane here
    A car that was illegally in the bus lane decided to undertake another car illegally in the bus lane (trying to push back into the driving lane) and mounted the kerb and ended up with wheels on the footpath.


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