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Rank Irish political parties on their willingness to discriminate against men/similar

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  • Registered Users Posts: 671 ✭✭✭Plopsu


    All four major parties will happily do it because it will gain votes from women and won't lose them from men.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,318 ✭✭✭✭Dial Hard


    The political parties that are overwhelmingly made up of men?


  • Registered Users Posts: 671 ✭✭✭Plopsu


    Dial Hard wrote:
    The political parties that are overwhelmingly made up of men?

    Yup. Read it again. If it wins votes from women and doesn't lose them from men, it's a winner for all the male politicians


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,862 ✭✭✭iptba


    iptba wrote: »
    I am not happy with the following proposal put forward by a Fine Gael minister

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/funds-for-women-only-professorships-aim-to-end-gender-inequality-1.3693939


    --

    https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/fears-over-jobs-for-the-girls-backlash-as-high-education-minister-to-create-professor-posts-only-for-women-to-end-bias-37514739.html

    Ideally I would prefer not to vote for political parties who support such discrimination against men.

    I don't follow Irish politics that closely. I wonder which parties people consider are most likely to discriminate against men or alternatively, are least likely to discriminate against men.
    I thought I would leave it 24 hours before posting any opinions.

    I am very suspicious of Labour on this issue.
    I remember that they were the first people to bring in gender quotas/targets in the 1990s under Mervyn Taylor. As I recall, the Education minister Niamh Breathnach was quite zealous on this issue e.g. if I recall correctly, the president of the student union in NUIG wasn't let sit on the governing board of the college for 6 months because he was male and the gender quota/target wasn't reached.

    In the last number of years, Ivana Bacik has been prominent and I think she would be quite willing to push for gender quotas/targets and probably all sorts of other things like women-only positions. I believe she was the main person behind the gender quotas/targets for political parties. I get the impression most politicians would be wary of challenging her and her proposals, except on traditional issues like abortion. Though I do remember now that one one Labour TD, Joanne Tuffy, was willing to speak up to say that she wasn't happy with gender quotas/targets for politicians.

    Labour's last alternative budget had a section for women, and I think they have had something similar before regarding the budget and/or a section on helping women in their manifestoes, without having any similar section on men.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,862 ✭✭✭iptba


    iptba wrote: »
    In the last number of years, Ivana Bacik has been prominent and I think she would be quite willing to push for gender quotas/targets and probably all sorts of other things like women-only positions. I believe she was the main person behind the gender quotas/targets for political parties. I get the impression most politicians would be wary of challenging her and her proposals, except on traditional issues like abortion.
    Not long after I posted this article by her went online supporting the women-only professorships:


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  • Registered Users Posts: 408 ✭✭Defunkd


    I'm cautious about Zappone. Represented by Bacik - for free - in her bid to have her marriage recognised in the Rep.; nominated to the Senate by Gilmore or Rabbitte. Former CEO or Chairman of the Natl Women's Council and here she is with a Ministerial position after a very short run as an Independent TD (Labour in everything but name maybe?) One way or another, she owes them big.
    Mightn't be as overt as other Lab. but i've no doubt she pushes the agends...Labour Lite.


  • Registered Users Posts: 408 ✭✭Defunkd


    Maybe it'd be easier to list politicians who have opposed any discriminatory policies rather than scaling parties on their acquiescence?
    I haven't heard of any Minister/T.D. speak against the proposed female-only positions; all parties have embraced gender quotas and the criminalising of the 'purchaser of sex only' legislation passed easily. I must check and see who voted against it/abstained.

    Local elections are next year I think; I must get a few questions ready for the geeks looking for election.


  • Registered Users Posts: 408 ✭✭Defunkd


    Maybe it'd be easier to list politicians who have opposed any discriminatory policies rather than scaling parties on their acquiescence?
    I haven't heard of any Minister/T.D. speak against the proposed female-only positions; all parties have embraced gender quotas and the criminalising of the 'purchaser of sex only' legislation passed easily. I must check and see who voted against it/abstained.

    Local elections are next year I think; I must get a few questions ready for the geeks looking for election.


  • Registered Users Posts: 408 ✭✭Defunkd


    Did some reading on Kildare St.com and i could only find that a few Independent T.D.'s opposed, or tried debating the Bill. (Couldn't find out who they were).
    The bulk of the Bill focused on solicitation of minors, so to oppose such a Bill could be disastrous for one's reputation.

    I read someone elses reading of the Bill and she says it is directed at decriminalising female prostitutes only.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,862 ✭✭✭iptba


    THE TAOISEACH HAS said there is an “epidemic of violence against women” and the government is working to put measures in place to stop it.

    Leo Varadkar was speaking after a special Cabinet meeting for International Women’s Day
    https://www.thejournal.ie/istanbul-convention-ratification-ireland-4529128-Mar2019/

    I don't recall a special Cabinet meeting for International Men's Day and I don't expect we will have one this year, either.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 408 ✭✭Defunkd


    An "epidemic"?!
    Leo must owe the feminist lobby group big-time. He supports every single topic they bring up.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,130 ✭✭✭Silentcorner


    Defunkd wrote: »
    An "epidemic"?!
    Leo must owe the feminist lobby group big-time. He supports every single topic they bring up.

    Harris was at a White Ribbon event on International Mens Day...White Ribbon is an organisation that raises awareness of male on female violence.

    In the case of non reciprocal domestic violence, that is one partner abusing the other, 70% of it is female on male....he couldn't even acknowledge it.

    Harris and Varadkar have been walked all over by the many women's issues lobby groups, which are tax payer funded.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,505 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    1. Social Democrats - while soft left as opposed to the far left of PBP, it's middle class college educated urban women who dominate the feminist industry and the soc dems are middle class to their fingertips

    2. Labour, as similar as identical twins to the soc dems, they might be ever so slightly less likely to support the social media left wing set

    3. Greens

    4. Solidarity

    5..fianna fail, Michael Martin is considerably more to the left than Leo and is always keen to get on board with the latest liberal campaign

    6. Fine gael, only positioned behind FF by virtue of the fact that fianna fail are followers, not leaders

    All of them will discriminate in order to keep the media quiet


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,862 ✭✭✭iptba


    I saw this event trending on Twitter today:
    #FeministEurope
    https://twitter.com/NWCI/status/1118202972641681408
    https://twitter.com/AlexWhite4EU/status/1118198890111610882
    https://twitter.com/NWCI/status/1118209597028872193

    This follows the presidential election where I recall a piece, organised again by the National Women's Council of Ireland if I recall correctly, where the candidates were asked whether they were feminists or something similar. All of them said they were except Peter Casey.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,862 ✭✭✭iptba


    From the Labour Party website:


    The Future of Women's Health

    Labour recognises that top-down and male-dominated approaches have had a detrimental effect on women's right to health in Ireland, as illustrated by the eighth amenmdent and the poor funding of women's health services.

    Labour believes that to fulfil women's right to health, we must work to create high quality health care across clinical areas including mental health, primary care, obstetrics and gynaecological services.



    Labour's Conference in 2018 included a section dedicated to the future of women's health. The need for this was starkly shown by the cervical check cover-up scandal and the subsequent failures to meet women's health care needs in a timely and sensitive fashion.

    Labour's policy working paper addresses the following areas which need to be addressed in a new approach to meeting women's health needs:

    Learning from the Scally Report
    Cervical cancer
    Uterine and ovarian cancers
    Gynaecological services
    Hidden epidemics
    Ending period poverty
    Supports for breastfeeding mothers
    Maternity services
    Termination of pregnancy
    Health and wellbeing

    https://www.labour.ie/manifesto/the-future-of-womens-health/

    Full document:
    https://www.labour.ie/download/pdf//labour_the_future_of_womens_health.pdf
    which is full of feminist rhetoric.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,521 ✭✭✭Padraig Mor


    "top-down and male-dominated approaches have had a detrimental effect on women's right to health in Ireland, as illustrated by the eighth amenmdent and the poor funding of women's health services."

    So they're saying the abortion ban was brought in by men, and that women's health services are poorer funded than men's? Poppycock in the case of the former, and outright incorrect in the case of the latter I'd hazard to guess.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,092 ✭✭✭...Ghost...


    "top-down and male-dominated approaches have had a detrimental effect on women's right to health in Ireland, as illustrated by the eighth amenmdent and the poor funding of women's health services."

    So they're saying the abortion ban was brought in by men, and that women's health services are poorer funded than men's? Poppycock in the case of the former, and outright incorrect in the case of the latter I'd hazard to guess.

    I recall listening to a piece on the radio a number of weeks ago where they were planning to extend the HPV vaccine to young boys, because they are also at risk of developing cancer if they contracted the virus. However, the reason given was not to protect boys/men, but to protect the non-vaccinated girls/women they might otherwise pass the virus onto.

    I don't remember who was talking about it and I only caught a section of the full conversation on Newstalk, but it made mad that they wanted to vaccinate boys with the intention to protect girls. The contributor could not even spin it as a positive to boys and girls. A truly awful insight into how some people think in binary.

    Free Palestine from Hamas



  • Registered Users Posts: 27,981 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    I recall listening to a piece on the radio a number of weeks ago where they were planning to extend the HPV vaccine to young boys, because they are also at risk of developing cancer if they contracted the virus. However, the reason given was not to protect boys/men, but to protect the non-vaccinated girls/women they might otherwise pass the virus onto.

    I don't remember who was talking about it and I only caught a section of the full conversation on Newstalk, but it made mad that they wanted to vaccinate boys with the intention to protect girls. The contributor could not even spin it as a positive to boys and girls. A truly awful insight into how some people think in binary.
    Don't believe everything you hear on Newstalk.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,092 ✭✭✭...Ghost...


    Don't believe everything you hear on Newstalk.

    I listen to it for the entertainment value and laughs, because they are so biased and stuffed to the gills with their own agenda, it shows me that I am grounded. If I start to believe Newstalk, I know I am in big trouble :p

    Free Palestine from Hamas



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,862 ✭✭✭iptba


    I saw a poster today for a Solidarity candidate where in big, bold writing, she asked people to vote for a "socialist feminist voice". If that is any indication of party policy, they might be willing to discriminate against men as part of efforts to help women.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,862 ✭✭✭iptba


    Growing instability in the electorate - and female solidarity

    [..]

    One further trend apparent is the likely success of many women candidates, particularly on the European stage. It is possible that a majority of MEPs from Ireland for 2019-2024 could be women. In an earlier piece, I explored the role of women voters in this respect, asking about the extent to which they might tend to opt for a female over a male candidate, other things being equal.

    Based on the RED C/RTÉ exit poll, it does seem that women voters did – as in 2014 – show a slight preference for female candidates.

    The poll indicates that 50% of women cast their first preference for a woman in the European elections, whereas only 41% of men did so, a slightly bigger difference that was found in RTE’s 2014 exit poll. This holds across all parties, as is shown in Figure 2. This also holds for second preferences.

    The downside of this for women candidates is that this implies men were less to support women, if by small margins. But there are normally more male voters.

    https://www.rte.ie/news/elections-2019/2019/0525/1051715-michael-marsh-analysis-election-2019/

    I wonder would men have a preference to vote for other men be couched in a similar way e.g. "solidarity".


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,862 ✭✭✭iptba


    iptba wrote: »
    I saw a poster today for a Solidarity candidate where in big, bold writing, she asked people to vote for a "socialist feminist voice". If that is any indication of party policy, they might be willing to discriminate against men as part of efforts to help women.
    I'm not sure whether this is the same person, but some people in the discussion elsewhere highlighted this European election candidate's tag line
    Rita Harrold #1 tomorrow in the Euro elections for a socialist-feminist voice for Workers, Women and the Planet!


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,862 ✭✭✭iptba



    It will be good if we could have one or more politicians here who would ask questions like this


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,577 ✭✭✭newport2


    iptba wrote: »
    It will be good if we could have one or more politicians here who would ask questions like this

    You couldn't make this up. This one is even better. Wish he would run for election over here



    I love the gender balance on the equality panel.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 137 ✭✭5555555555


    I recall listening to a piece on the radio a number of weeks ago where they were planning to extend the HPV vaccine to young boys, because they are also at risk of developing cancer if they contracted the virus. However, the reason given was not to protect boys/men, but to protect the non-vaccinated girls/women they might otherwise pass the virus onto.

    I don't remember who was talking about it and I only caught a section of the full conversation on Newstalk, but it made mad that they wanted to vaccinate boys with the intention to protect girls. The contributor could not even spin it as a positive to boys and girls. A truly awful insight into how some people think in binary.

    This is true. The only reason it was extended to boys was the low uptake of the vaccine with girls.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 137 ✭✭5555555555


    newport2 wrote: »
    You couldn't make this up. This one is even better. Wish he would run for election over here



    I love the gender balance on the equality panel.

    lol facts and logic. First world feminisms greatest enemies !!


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,862 ✭✭✭iptba


    I wasn't sure where to post this.

    https://twitter.com/NiallMacCathail/status/1152616567714328577

    This is of course only one individual who holds a lowly position.

    But the suggestion that middle-class white males will never have to worry about a problem in their lives is hard to accept as true. But one could easily see that such attitudes could lead to problematic attitudes to men.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,885 ✭✭✭✭Riskymove


    5555555555 wrote: »
    This is true. The only reason it was extended to boys was the low uptake of the vaccine with girls.

    The HPV is a far bigger risk to women. men cannot, for example, develop cervical cancer

    the more people inoculated the less it will spread protecting more people, both men and women


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,092 ✭✭✭...Ghost...


    Riskymove wrote: »
    The HPV is a far bigger risk to women. men cannot, for example, develop cervical cancer

    the more people inoculated the less it will spread protecting more people, both men and women

    That's not the point though. The point is that they ruled out vaccinating boys until they realised that it would benefit girls.

    HPV in males can cause cancers in the genitals and anus. While these cancers are not as prevalent as cervical cancer, the approach taken shows how little men are valued.

    Free Palestine from Hamas



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  • Registered Users Posts: 10,885 ✭✭✭✭Riskymove


    That's not the point though.

    it is though.....it is far, far more a risk to women. Inoculating boys protects them and is another protection for women

    HPV leads to far more deaths in women

    of an estimated 6,000 deaths in the USA per year 5,000 relate to cancer of cervix, vulva or vagina

    of the remaining 1,000 around 800 are anus (obviously affecting men and women)

    around 200 are related to cancer in penis


    you have to focus resources on the most effective outcomes

    and remember, more women inoculated means less to pass on to men


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