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Covid 19 Part XXXIII-231,484 ROI(4,610 deaths)116,197 NI (2,107 deaths)(23/03)Read OP

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Comments

  • #3512
    seamus
    Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    Sanjuro wrote: »
    What exactly is fuelling their opposition to getting vaccinated?
    I think vaccination is fine. It's about their religious worship practices, which are incompatible with social distancing, and the community would rather get sick and die than forgo their religious activities.

    Insanely high case numbers therefore happen when you have millions of people mixing in close contact with no health measures.

    For example, this funeral in January:
    image.jpg


  • #3513
    mloc123
    Registered Users Posts: 9,454 ✭✭✭mloc123


    Sanjuro wrote: »
    What exactly is fuelling their opposition to getting vaccinated?

    Religion...


  • #3514
    Turtwig
    Registered Users Posts: 26,578 ✭✭✭✭Turtwig


    Lorcainide was an anti arrhythmia drug prescribed in the 80s and 90s. Somewhere in the region of have 100,000 people are estimated to have died from it. All those people you'd think it would have been noticed. It was but it wasn't really published or properly documented. It took the greater part of a decade for the risks to be widely known. Medicine and science is full of stuff like this where what should be obvious very rarely was perceived that way until it becomes obvious with hindsight. There could exists a plethora of documented cases of covid related stillbirths or there might not.

    Just because you think other people should have spotted something doesn't mean they did. Ireland may be the first country to actively probe the issue.

    That said I don't think there's anything here. It just needs to be investigated to know for sure. Assuming there's nothing because others should have seen something can often be a dangerous assumption.


  • #3515
    fits
    Registered Users Posts: 13,246 ✭✭✭✭fits


    Roger_007 wrote: »
    Speaking of scaremongering, necessary or otherwise, whatever happened to Kawasaki disease in children which featured prominently in the early days of the pandemic as being possibly caused by coronavirus.
    I haven’t heard much about it recently ?

    There was an article in one of the newspapers last week about it. Family had covid at Christmas and child became very sick just in recent weeks. Been a good few hospitalisations in Ireland with it. Scary thing but doesn’t appear too common thankfully.
    Different article but similar story.
    https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40229072.html


  • #3516
    OwenM
    Registered Users Posts: 859 ✭✭✭OwenM


    Turtwig wrote: »
    Lorcainide was an anti arrhythmia drug prescribed in the 80s and 90s. Somewhere in the region of have 100,000 people are estimated to have died from it. All those people you'd think it would have been noticed. It was but it wasn't really published or properly documented. It took the greater part of a decade for the risks to be widely known. Medicine and science is full of stuff like this where what should be obvious very rarely was perceived that way until it becomes obvious with hindsight. There could exists a plethora of documented cases of covid related stillbirths or there might not.

    Just because you think other people should have spotted something doesn't mean they did. Ireland may be the first country to actively probe the issue.

    That said I don't think there's anything here. It just needs to be investigated to know for sure. Assuming there's nothing because others should have seen something can often be a dangerous assumption.

    For something so preliminary and speculative we also have a common name (Covid Placentitis) for it? Needless doom mongering and Glynn could easily have sidestepped that question if he wanted to.


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  • #3517
    Natterjack from Kerry
    Registered Users Posts: 623 ✭✭✭Natterjack from Kerry


    Wolf359f wrote: »
    To put it into context: 70% of 12914 = 9039 hospitalized
    70% of 1296 = 907 went to ICU
    I'm not 100% sure on the percentages, but it's up there around 70% over the past 12 months.

    Yes, this is the risk, and those are bad numbers. The risks have been kept in check by low infections due to restrictions. If we reach for example, half the population vaccinated, half the population not, then with a relaxation of restrictions, hospitalisations and deaths will soar. It will be far more dangerous in the coming months for the unvaccinated than it is today.


  • #3518
    SeaMermaid
    Closed Accounts Posts: 62 ✭✭SeaMermaid


    What Username Guidelines wrote: »
    It's very easy for some to react to anything negative as 'unnecessary scaremongering' when they themselves just don't want to hear it. Funnily enough, it's usually from the same cohort that religiously watch RTE, while complaining about what a sham it is, while telling others "if they're scared they should stay home"
    ginoginelli wrote: »
    Bang on.

    Its ironic really. The same cohort talk about 'hiding under the bed' and indulging in 'misery porn' when they are really just reflecting their own disillusionment and fear.

    Sad people.

    Reminds me of school and some students would claim they didn't lift a book to study ever and they encouraged their peers to do the same. Then they come out from the leaving cert with all honours over 500/550 points to 600. Doing very well and apparently without a tap of study done in years. While their peers come out doing poorly and their poor results show their lack of studies.

    Many of these people writing publicly on forums of being proud to breaking lockdown and putting themselves at risk and encouraging spread of disease - are nearly spurring their readers to do the same - and they will emerge from this pandemic as healthy as possible. Just keyboard warriors being bored with lockdown and being safe behind their screens, tapping away at their keys.


  • #3519
    fits
    Registered Users Posts: 13,246 ✭✭✭✭fits


    seamus wrote: »
    I think vaccination is fine. It's about their religious worship practices, which are incompatible with social distancing, and the community would rather get sick and die than forgo their religious activities.

    Insanely high case numbers therefore happen when you have millions of people mixing in close contact with no health measures.

    For example, this funeral in January:
    image.jpg


    There was a mad article in I think New York Times recently. About orthodox community and covid. An eye opener.


  • #3520
    MrMusician18
    Registered Users Posts: 7,194 ✭✭✭MrMusician18


    Deleted User wrote: »
    ...so is it only in Ireland that there have been stillbirths, nowhere else in the world ?????
    Really ?? That kinda beggars belief :confused:

    Would you rather women didn't know? Keep them in blissful ignorance, because their doctors know best? Is that it?
    I really thought we had put this kind of paternalism when it comes to women's health behind us.


  • #3521
    fits
    Registered Users Posts: 13,246 ✭✭✭✭fits


    fits wrote: »
    There was a mad article in I think New York Times recently. About orthodox community and covid. An eye opener.

    Here it is. Well worth a read. Long article though

    https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/02/17/world/middleeast/israel-orthodox-jews-haredim.html


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  • #3522
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    SeaMermaid wrote: »
    Reminds me of school and some students would claim they didn't lift a book to study ever and they encouraged their peers to do the same. Then they come out from the leaving cert with all honours over 500/550 points to 600. Doing very well and apparently without a tap of study done in years. While their peers come out doing poorly and their poor results show their lack of studies.

    Many of these people writing publicly on forums of being proud to breaking lockdown and putting themselves at risk and encouraging spread of disease - are nearly spurring their readers to do the same - and they will emerge from this pandemic as healthy as possible. Just keyboard warriors being bored with lockdown and being safe behind their screens, tapping away at their keys.

    Weren't you trying to link rising cases with schools being open again since Monday of this week? The comment is from yesterday morning.
    https://touch.boards.ie/thread/post/116473448


  • #3523
    ThunbergsAreGo
    Registered Users Posts: 10,399 ✭✭✭✭ThunbergsAreGo


    OwenM wrote: »
    For something so preliminary and speculative we also have a common name (Covid Placentitis) for it? Needless doom mongering and Glynn could easily have sidestepped that question if he wanted to.

    Setting the age range of death to 0-96 was always going to cause questions


  • #3524
    MarkY91
    Registered Users Posts: 7,067 ✭✭✭MarkY91


    Does anyone know of any protests happening this weekend in Dublin?

    Would be interesting to see how the Garda would react this time. I think they deserved a lot of respect last weekend dealing with the scum of our society.


  • #3525
    muddypuppy
    Registered Users Posts: 322 ✭✭muddypuppy


    https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0304/1200970-archdiocese-communion-dublin/
    The advice came as a parish in west Dublin stopped handing out communion to 130 parishioners on Sundays, after gardaí advised it should not be doing so.

    [...]

    "They used to come through the main entrance of the church, receive communion and leave through the exit door. On these days we were having 130 people over a period of two hours," Fr Mathew said.

    [...]

    Fr Binoy Mathew, co-Parish Priest of Mountview and Blakestown Parish in Dublin, said that since November parishioners were visiting the Church of the Sacred Heart of Jesus in Huntstown to get communion after watching mass online on Sundays.

    Well it seems that not only young people are breaking covid regulations to party. I'm not surprised but a bit sad to not see any fines handled - if anybody else was doing it (think of a shop doing click and collect now - "customers used to come through the main entrance of the shop, receive their packages and leave through the exit door" ) I'm sure it would have made the headlines.


  • #3526
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    Natterjack from Kerry wrote: »
    Yes, this is the risk, and those are bad numbers. The risks have been kept in check by low infections due to restrictions. If we reach for example, half the population vaccinated, half the population not, then with a relaxation of restrictions, hospitalisations and deaths will soar. It will be far more dangerous in the coming months for the unvaccinated than it is today.

    That's actually a completely incorrect conclusion to come too. You vaccinate the at risk and vulnerable groups, your claim suggests the virus is dangerous to all who contract it which all evidence suggests is completely wrong.


  • #3527
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    muddypuppy wrote: »
    https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0304/1200970-archdiocese-communion-dublin/



    Well it seems that not only young people are breaking covid regulations to party. I'm not surprised but a bit sad to not see any fines handled - if anybody else was doing it (think of a shop doing click and collect now - "customers used to come through the main entrance of the shop, receive their packages and leave through the exit door" ) I'm sure it would have made the headlines.

    Maybe it was students on the way to a house party stopping off for a bit of communion. Otherwise it suggests students/ younger people are being unfairly targeted.


  • #3528
    gipi
    Registered Users Posts: 2,854 ✭✭✭gipi


    muddypuppy wrote: »
    https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0304/1200970-archdiocese-communion-dublin/



    Well it seems that not only young people are breaking covid regulations to party. I'm not surprised but a bit sad to not see any fines handled - if anybody else was doing it (think of a shop doing click and collect now - "customers used to come through the main entrance of the shop, receive their packages and leave through the exit door" ) I'm sure it would have made the headlines.

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/dunnes-stores-accused-of-flouting-covid-rules-with-click-and-collect-1.4497583

    Like Dunnes Stores? Still offering click and collect, by all accounts.


  • #3529
    lee_baby_simms
    Registered Users Posts: 3,374 ✭✭✭lee_baby_simms


    Plumbthedepths wrote: »
    Maybe it was students on the way to a house party stopping off for a bit of communion. Otherwise it suggests students/ younger people are being unfairly targeted.

    I fully expect a tweet from Simon Harris today describing what went on in that church was “a kick in the teeth to everyone who has sacrificed so much”.


  • #3530
    muddypuppy
    Registered Users Posts: 322 ✭✭muddypuppy


    gipi wrote: »
    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/dunnes-stores-accused-of-flouting-covid-rules-with-click-and-collect-1.4497583

    Like Dunnes Stores? Still offering click and collect, by all accounts.

    Dunnes is operating on a gray line tbf, since they're considered an essential store and are allowed to be open. What I meant is a store that's not considered essential.

    Also I would argue that clothes and homewares are essential (but yes, I know that the government doesn't agree with me).


  • #3531
    timmyntc
    Registered Users Posts: 6,796 ✭✭✭timmyntc


    Wolf359f wrote: »
    To put it into context: 70% of 12914 = 9039 hospitalized
    70% of 1296 = 907 went to ICU
    I'm not 100% sure on the percentages, but it's up there around 70% over the past 12 months.

    These are the stats that matter:
    (Profile of COVID-19 Deaths and Cases up to and including Friday February 19 2021 - from CSO)

    Age | Deaths | Median Age | Cases | Median Age
    0-14 | 0 | 0 | 18,753 | 8
    15-24 | .. | .. | 37,709 | 20
    25-44 | 35 | 36 | 72,738 | 34
    45-64 | 252 | 58 | 57,025 | 53
    65-79 | 1,138 | 74 | 16,788 | 72
    80+ | 2,454 | 87 | 11,809 | 86

    As you can see the most at risk are over 65s, below that its a tiny portion of the population at risk.


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  • #3532
    iamwhoiam
    Registered Users Posts: 16,072 ✭✭✭✭iamwhoiam


    gipi wrote: »
    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/dunnes-stores-accused-of-flouting-covid-rules-with-click-and-collect-1.4497583

    Like Dunnes Stores? Still offering click and collect, by all accounts.

    I just tried and its not available online , delivery only


  • #3533
    Amirani
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,521 Mod ✭✭✭✭Amirani


    MrMusician18 wrote: »
    Would you rather women didn't know? Keep them in blissful ignorance, because their doctors know best? Is that it?
    I really thought we had put this kind of paternalism when it comes to women's health behind us.

    Yep, the same people probably constantly demanding open disclosure and accusing Holohan of trying to "cover up" CervicalCheck issues by having a private inquiry before making everything public.

    You either want a paternalistic medical culture that tries to treat people with blissful ignorance, or you want one that is open and honest about things. There's no in between. You can't have both.


  • #3534
    CIARAN_BOYLE
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 14,599 Mod ✭✭✭✭CIARAN_BOYLE


    timmyntc wrote: »
    These are the stats that matter:
    (Profile of COVID-19 Deaths and Cases up to and including Friday February 19 2021 - from CSO)

    Age | Deaths | Median Age | Cases | Median Age
    0-14 | 0 | 0 | 18,753 | 8
    15-24 | .. | .. | 37,709 | 20
    25-44 | 35 | 36 | 72,738 | 34
    45-64 | 252 | 58 | 57,025 | 53
    65-79 | 1,138 | 74 | 16,788 | 72
    80+ | 2,454 | 87 | 11,809 | 86

    As you can see the most at risk are over 65s, below that its a tiny portion of the population at risk.
    I would consider age breakdown of hospitalisation and icu admission to be just as important (and not as heavily skewed to fit your ambition).


  • #3535
    timmyntc
    Registered Users Posts: 6,796 ✭✭✭timmyntc


    Amirani wrote: »
    Yep, the same people probably constantly demanding open disclosure and accusing Holohan of trying to "cover up" CervicalCheck issues by having a private inquiry before making everything public.

    You either want a paternalistic medical culture that tries to treat people with blissful ignorance, or you want one that is open and honest about things. There's no in between. You can't have both.

    How about when asked, Glynn responds "There is no evidence both nationally or internationally of covid-19 causing stillbirths. The coroner is investigating these 4 cases, however we believe that covid19 was not a factor."

    And also don't list 4 stillbirths in the death statistics until you actually know that covid19 was a factor - because right now the evidence is overwhelmingly against that.


  • #3536
    completedit
    Registered Users Posts: 2,639 ✭✭✭completedit


    Hearing that in Bulgaria everything but nightclubs are now open. Businesses supposed to be at 50% capacity but Sofia has pretty much returned to normal. Honestly, we're such a passive country(for better or worse)


  • #3537
    timmyntc
    Registered Users Posts: 6,796 ✭✭✭timmyntc


    CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »
    I would consider age breakdown of hospitalisation and icu admission to be just as important (and not as heavily skewed to fit your ambition).

    Did you just accuse the CSO's death statistics to be skewed to fit my personal ambition? :confused:


  • #3538
    Amirani
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,521 Mod ✭✭✭✭Amirani


    timmyntc wrote: »
    How about when asked, Glynn responds "There is no evidence both nationally or internationally of covid-19 causing stillbirths. The coroner is investigating these 4 cases, however we believe that covid19 was not a factor."

    Because that's not what the Institute of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists are saying: https://www.rcpi.ie/news/releases/statement-from-the-institute-of-obstetricians-and-gynaecologists-4/

    If he said what you said then he'd be lying to make people feel better. They haven't formed a "belief" yet, it's being investigated.


  • #3539
    Wolf359f
    Registered Users Posts: 5,701 ✭✭✭Wolf359f


    timmyntc wrote: »
    These are the stats that matter:
    (Profile of COVID-19 Deaths and Cases up to and including Friday February 19 2021 - from CSO)

    Age | Deaths | Median Age | Cases | Median Age
    0-14 | 0 | 0 | 18,753 | 8
    15-24 | .. | .. | 37,709 | 20
    25-44 | 35 | 36 | 72,738 | 34
    45-64 | 252 | 58 | 57,025 | 53
    65-79 | 1,138 | 74 | 16,788 | 72
    80+ | 2,454 | 87 | 11,809 | 86

    As you can see the most at risk are over 65s, below that its a tiny portion of the population at risk.

    The OP was in the mindset that because the flu hospitalised less people than covid, we should vaccinate all over 70's and open up. I merely was saying just vaccinating the over 70's and opening up would still see hospitals under pressure (assuming cases increase).

    If you vaccinate all over 70's, all over 18's in the high risk category and all HCW's, then the numbers dying and being hospitalised would be or should be entirely manageable.


  • #3540
    Turtwig
    Registered Users Posts: 26,578 ✭✭✭✭Turtwig


    timmyntc wrote: »
    Did you just accuse the CSO's death statistics to be skewed to fit my personal ambition? :confused:

    No.
    He or she quite clearly did not do this.


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  • #3541
    timmyntc
    Registered Users Posts: 6,796 ✭✭✭timmyntc


    Wolf359f wrote: »
    The OP was in the mindset that because the flu hospitalised less people than covid, we should vaccinate all over 70's and open up. I merely was saying just vaccinating the over 70's and opening up would still see hospitals under pressure (assuming cases increase).

    If you vaccinate all over 70's, all over 18's in the high risk category and all HCW's, then the numbers dying and being hospitalised would be or should be entirely manageable.

    Of the under 65s who died from covid, I think something mad like 90% had an underlying condition. I will try find the CSO data for that.
    Turtwig wrote: »
    No.
    He or she quite clearly did not do this.
    That you drew this interpretation is actually quite fascinating.
    I would consider age breakdown of hospitalisation and icu admission to be just as important (and not as heavily skewed to fit your ambition).

    The data is the data. Its the whole death range for all ages. How can it be skewed?


This discussion has been closed.
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