College Green Plaza -- public consultation open

noelfirl · 05-06-2019 10:51pm

Last Stop wrote: »

Remember the fire station is on Pearse st. What would happen in the event of a fire on Dame St. if College green was fully pedestrianised? I know people will say we’ll manage but to me this plan while ideal on paper, does not take into account the reality of the situation.

Just on that specific point - DCC's initial plan for the plaza included a two way cycle lane across the plaza, which would presumably double up as an emergency lane. Remembering also that vehicle access to the front car park of the BOI and Foster Place was to be maintained (access to/from the bus turning circle). I don't think fire engines getting across the plaza as required is really likely to be that big an issue...

BonnieSituation · 05-06-2019 10:56pm

Eric Cartman wrote: »

I would welcome this outside of the 9-5 working hours. the city needs to stop just looking at hurting car drivers (and by extension commercial drivers) as a means to make people more green.

You think that what we need is people being able to drive up and down Grafton St?

What problem does that solve?

Last Stop · 05-06-2019 11:21pm

noelfirl wrote: »

Just on that specific point - DCC's initial plan for the plaza included a two way cycle lane across the plaza, which would presumably double up as an emergency lane. Remembering also that vehicle access to the front car park of the BOI and Foster Place was to be maintained (access to/from the bus turning circle). I don't think fire engines getting across the plaza as required is really likely to be that big an issue...

Good point but this only furthers my argument as if you look at the unnatural route proposed for cyclists it would seem much more beneficial to keep them going straight on the BOI side.
Also you just know that the bus turning circle will be blocked by either a taxi driver or someone with flashers on, causing the whole of Dame St. to come to a stand still. If Buses were able to move straight through and terminate at Fleet St, it would create a much better flow through the area.

Duckjob · 06-06-2019 9:31am

monument wrote:

Get cars back on Grafton Street now!

Eric Cartman wrote: »

I would welcome this outside of the 9-5 working hours. the city needs to stop just looking at hurting car drivers (and by extension commercial drivers) as a means to make people more green.

cgcsb · 06-06-2019 5:10pm

Eric Cartman wrote: »

I would welcome this outside of the 9-5 working hours. the city needs to stop just looking at hurting car drivers (and by extension commercial drivers) as a means to make people more green.

No thanks

cgcsb · 06-06-2019 5:11pm

Last Stop wrote: »

Why cant we move all the traffic to the BOI side and move the bus stops further down Dame St??? This would create a large enough plaza without completely shutting down the main artery of the city.
Remember the fire station is on Pearse st. What would happen in the event of a fire on Dame St. if College green was fully pedestrianised? I know people will say we’ll manage but to me this plan while ideal on paper, does not take into account the reality of the situation. If traffic was allowed on one side and moved more freely, it would be a far nicer place. Long term I can see Lucan Luas joining the Green Line here and creating an integrated transport network, not possible if CG is fully closed.
An Bord Pleanala identified some serious flaws with the current proposal and instead of trying to address these issues, DCC appear to have gone on the defensive and attempted to prove ABP wrong.

Emergancy vehicles can drive up pedestrianized Henry st at any time. This would be the same. They'd also have the option of using the bus lane on the quays.

Spanish Eyes · 06-06-2019 11:15pm

For the first time in a long time I was on Dame Street about 5.30pm today.

OMG it was just mayhem. No room for pedestrians on the footpaths AT ALL, some had to dip onto the street. Dangerous... So many bus stops with the queues that impede on foot traffic. Maybe I lead a sheltered life, but I was honestly gobsmacked at the amount of car/bus/ped traffic there. Totally choking the place really.

I would wonder if the City Councillors ever have a wander around at all.

prinzeugen · 07-06-2019 1:33am

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

For the first time in a long time I was on Dame Street about 5.30pm today.

OMG it was just mayhem. No room for pedestrians on the footpaths AT ALL, some had to dip onto the street. Dangerous... So many bus stops with the queues that impede on foot traffic. Maybe I lead a sheltered life, but I was honestly gobsmacked at the amount of car/bus/ped traffic there. Totally choking the place really.

I would wonder if the City Councillors ever have a wander around at all.

Councillors dont. The proposals for the quiet -way in South Dublin proves that they just sit with a map and a coloured pencil or crayon.

What do you propose? Get rid of the car/bus and pedestrians? College Green would be nice and clear for cyclists then. College Green is vital for public transport.

Duckjob · 07-06-2019 8:23am

prinzeugen wrote: »

Councillors dont. The proposals for the quiet -way in South Dublin proves that they just sit with a map and a coloured pencil or crayon.

What do you propose? Get rid of the car/bus and pedestrians? College Green would be nice and clear for cyclists then. College Green is vital for public transport.

Just the cars would do the trick.

As I've said on a different thread, it's only when you give over The majority of available space to the least efficient form of transport (not to mention, smelliest, noisiest, most polluting etc ), that every other mode gets squeezed fighting over the scraps that remain.

Zipppy · 07-06-2019 9:11am

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

For the first time in a long time I was on Dame Street about 5.30pm today.

OMG it was just mayhem. No room for pedestrians on the footpaths AT ALL, some had to dip onto the street. Dangerous... So many bus stops with the queues that impede on foot traffic. Maybe I lead a sheltered life, but I was honestly gobsmacked at the amount of car/bus/ped traffic there. Totally choking the place really.

I would wonder if the City Councillors ever have a wander around at all.

How would we solve this?
Beside building the badly needed extensive Metro?

CatInABox · 07-06-2019 9:59am

Zipppy wrote: »

How would we solve this?
Beside building the badly needed extensive Metro?

Reducing the priority we give to cars would be a great start. When the bus gate at College Green opened, less traffic went through, but more people used it. It's a great example of the principle of Reduced Demand. The College Green Plaza done right, could reduce car usage, and boost public transport usage at the same time.

KD345 · 07-06-2019 10:40am

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

For the first time in a long time I was on Dame Street about 5.30pm today.

OMG it was just mayhem. No room for pedestrians on the footpaths AT ALL, some had to dip onto the street. Dangerous... So many bus stops with the queues that impede on foot traffic. Maybe I lead a sheltered life, but I was honestly gobsmacked at the amount of car/bus/ped traffic there. Totally choking the place really.

I would wonder if the City Councillors ever have a wander around at all.

The problem is if you were to pedestrianise College Green you don’t solve that problem, you simply move it onto the quays, which are already equally as busy. Aston Quay, Bachelors Walk and Wellington Quay can be awful for pedestrians, and adding a lot of high frequency bus routes into the mix would be a disaster in my opinion. Every bus through College Green at peak time is carrying about 90 passengers. They’re not the problem here. Imagine how much better it would be if they had priority and faster boarding times. If you base it on road space per vehicle, it’s the taxis and private motorists which are the problem. Last week, I watched a taxi block a yellow box which prevented a tram pass a junction, which in turn, held up 7 full buses. That’s 600 bus passengers and over 300 tram passengers delayed because of one taxi.

There needs to be better traffic management between O’Connell Bridge and Dame Street with priority given to buses and trams. There is no enforcement of the yellow boxes and I’m seeing more and more private motorists are using the area daily.

Zipppy · 07-06-2019 10:59am

CatInABox wrote: »

Reducing the priority we give to cars would be a great start. When the bus gate at College Green opened, less traffic went through, but more people used it. It's a great example of the principle of Reduced Demand. The College Green Plaza done right, could reduce car usage, and boost public transport usage at the same time.

but this wouldn't solve the thousands of pedestrians, spilling onto the road whilst waiting for hundreds of buses.
There's no cars in college green during the day anyhow so they are not clogging up the area..too many buses..build a metro...
Or maybe just pedestrianise the core city centre...no cars buses trams or cyclists..it would be lovely and calm then.

cgcsb · 07-06-2019 11:02am

KD345 wrote: »

The problem is if you were to pedestrianise College Green you don’t solve that problem, you simply move it onto the quays, which are already equally as busy. Aston Quay, Bachelors Walk and Wellington Quay can be awful for pedestrians, and adding a lot of high frequency bus routes into the mix would be a disaster in my opinion. Every bus through College Green at peak time is carrying about 90 passengers. They’re not the problem here. Imagine how much better it would be if they had priority and faster boarding times. If you base it on road space per vehicle, it’s the taxis and private motorists which are the problem. Last week, I watched a taxi block a yellow box which prevented a tram pass a junction, which in turn, held up 7 full buses. That’s 600 bus passengers and over 300 tram passengers delayed because of one taxi.

There needs to be better traffic management between O’Connell Bridge and Dame Street with priority given to buses and trams. There is no enforcement of the yellow boxes and I’m seeing more and more private motorists are using the area daily.

A car ban on Bachelors walk was needed 2 years ago. But DCC wilted like a house flower.

They seem to be bringing in such a can by stealth though. With Liffey street being pedestrianised and Inns quay will be down to one lane for cars, with all parking removed. I agree these changes are far to slow, needed to be finished 3 years ago at least.

Qrt · 07-06-2019 11:11am

KD345 wrote: »

There needs to be better traffic management between O’Connell Bridge and Dame Street with priority given to buses and trams. There is no enforcement of the yellow boxes and I’m seeing more and more private motorists are using the area daily.

I’d actually argue that we need traffic wardens directing traffic in the city centre. The lights being automatic and not-human, they just get ignored, and can’t adapt to the situations around them. Pyongyang comes to mind (a city with a beautiful metro system).

wakka12 · 07-06-2019 11:25am

CatInABox wrote: »

Reducing the priority we give to cars would be a great start. When the bus gate at College Green opened, less traffic went through, but more people used it. It's a great example of the principle of Reduced Demand. The College Green Plaza done right, could reduce car usage, and boost public transport usage at the same time.

I feel as though Dublin is nearly at peak public transport usage though.The infrastructure simply needs to improve to accomodate more people now. I dont know many people who would willingly drive into the city centre, if theyve the luas, dart or bus as viable altneratives where they live

It really does depress me walking through college green though. It has so much potential to feel like the true heart of Dublin and do so much for the civic life of the entire city but its just completely wasted and destroyed by cars, its a thoroughly unpleasant place to walk through, same story with the quays. Its a pity Dublin has been so badly planned throughout almost its entire history

loyatemu · 07-06-2019 11:29am

wakka12 wrote: »

I feel as though Dublin is nearly at peak public transport usage though.The infrastructure simply needs to improve to accomodate more people now. I dont know many people who would willingly drive into the city centre, if theyve the luas, dart or bus as viable altneratives where they live

It really does depress me walking through college green though. It has so much potential to feel like the true heart of Dublin and do so much for the civic life of the entire city but its just completely wasted and destroyed by cars, its a thoroughly unpleasant place to walk through

I know plenty of people who drive into the city when they could get the Dart or bus. Why, because they can, because the Dart doesn't stop outside their front door and outside the door of their office, and they have free parking and it costs them nothing extra to drive into the city, take up road space and spew out diesel fumes.

cgcsb · 07-06-2019 11:32am

Qrt wrote: »

Pyongyang comes to mind (a city with a beautiful metro system).

:pac:

cgcsb · 07-06-2019 11:35am

wakka12 wrote: »

I dont know many people who would willingly drive into the city centre, if theyve the luas, dart or bus as viable altneratives where they live

Basically if you have free workplace parking, modelling shows that you'll drive, because public transport will cost more and often will be slower with current infrastructure.

Eric Cartman · 07-06-2019 7:38pm

BonnieSituation wrote: »

You think that what we need is people being able to drive up and down Grafton St?

What problem does that solve?

Makes deliveries easier, easier to get taxis, shortens journeys, if you could go from college green straight up to the stephens green carpark / drury street at night it would help a lot. Not talking 2pm on a saturday , but 1am on a saturday yes

cgcsb · 08-06-2019 10:34am

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Makes deliveries easier

I'm honestly curious how you think the shops get deliveries now

Eric Cartman · 08-06-2019 11:36am

cgcsb wrote: »

I'm honestly curious how you think the shops get deliveries now

An awkward process of trying to get there super early in the morning or using the 2 available loading bays on one of the side streets and carting your wares down the street hundreds of meters past the homeless drug addicts. Some units have rear accessoble yards but not most.

Duckjob · 08-06-2019 12:03pm

Eric Cartman wrote: »

An awkward process of trying to get there super early in the morning or using the 2 available loading bays on one of the side streets and carting your wares down the street hundreds of meters past the homeless drug addicts. Some units have rear accessoble yards but not most.

So there's 2 options there to pick from

IE 222 · 08-06-2019 12:03pm

What is the obsession with creating the plaza at College Green. Surely O'Connell street would offer more benefit and buses ect can easily be rerouted around it.

L1011 · 08-06-2019 1:01pm

O Connell Street has a Luas running down the entire length of it, in the middle too.

College Green is the only suitable space

Muahahaha · 08-06-2019 1:11pm

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

For the first time in a long time I was on Dame Street about 5.30pm today.

OMG it was just mayhem. No room for pedestrians on the footpaths AT ALL, some had to dip onto the street. Dangerous... So many bus stops with the queues that impede on foot traffic. Maybe I lead a sheltered life, but I was honestly gobsmacked at the amount of car/bus/ped traffic there. Totally choking the place really.

I would wonder if the City Councillors ever have a wander around at all.

Its been that way during peak tourist season for a good few years now. Just so many tourists walking around slowly on narrow footpaths, there is literally no more space for people.

p_haugh · 08-06-2019 1:17pm

L1011 wrote: »

O Connell Street has a Luas running down the entire length of it, in the middle too.

College Green is the only suitable space

College Green also has a luas going through it, and so will Dame Street if the luas line to Lucan comes to fruition.

MJohnston · 08-06-2019 1:21pm

Eric Cartman wrote: »

An awkward process of trying to get there super early in the morning or using the 2 available loading bays on one of the side streets and carting your wares down the street hundreds of meters past the homeless drug addicts. Some units have rear accessoble yards but not most.

Except, take a walk up Grafton Street any weekday at 10am and you'll find two lines of delivery vans parked the whole length of it. They're already doing exactly what you're clamouring for (much to the detriment of the street, it has to be said).

Muahahaha · 08-06-2019 1:27pm

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Makes deliveries easier, easier to get taxis, shortens journeys, if you could go from college green straight up to the stephens green carpark / drury street at night it would help a lot. Not talking 2pm on a saturday , but 1am on a saturday yes

Grafton St is pretty packed at 1am on a Saturday, its a main route for people to walk to the nightclubs of Harcourt St. Even at 3 or 4am there is still a lot of pedestrians on it.

IE 222 · 08-06-2019 1:43pm

L1011 wrote: »

O Connell Street has a Luas running down the entire length of it, in the middle too.

College Green is the only suitable space

So to does College Green. A luas line running along it length rather than across 2 of 3 points of entry is a much better alternative in my view. College Green will remain flanked by bus routes and terminus at all points of entry and still have a large volume of cyclists travelling through it.

College Green is a relatively small space to gain for all the issues it's going to create. I can't see it been able to host any major gatherings or events in the area either. There is very little in the area to attract footfall from elsewhere as well. O'Connell street at least has numerous amounts of retail footfall and tourists/hotels.

It has nothing of significant to offer from a historical point of view other than trinity college where as O'Connell street has the GPO which we supposedly treasure and numerous monuments and statues along with a plentiful supply of food outlets and retail options.

College Green Plaza -- public consultation open

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