Leasehold house - should we still buy?

L1011 · 14-03-2019 5:55pm

The leasehold is the actual thing you're buying with the house.

The solicitor likely doesn't want to do it, but is not giving you inaccurate advice - it can be bought later and could be complicated but there is the arbitration system to sort this stuff out.

Check landdirect to see if any neighbours have bought theirs out - leaseholds are green hatching, freeholds are not hatched. If others have it is clearly not impossible to sort out.

antiskeptic · 14-03-2019 6:02pm

bri007 wrote: »

Spoke to solicitor, genuinely haven’t a clue what he was talking to me about and I’m more confused as I was before!

I asked about buying the freehold back and he said oh hold your horses..... you have to buy the leasehold first and then obtain the freehold.

I said ok but how do I go about it. He said it’s not part of buying the house and I shouldn’t be bothered by it. I said I want to get the freehold. Again he said in a few years it’s something to consider. Then I pushed more and he said it had 5-6 different interested parties and he said it would be very complicated!

Again couldn’t say if it was possible to obtain or not.

So am I right in saying now all houses are able to be purchased the freehold back?

I’m totally confused

There's a tale on here about a guy buying a house in Sligo only to find out that a chunk of the small front garden had been CPO'd for road alterations by the Council.

The solicitor told him he'd checked out the folio map on it and that it was nothing to worry about.

"Did the solicitor tell you this in writing?"

"No"

Have your solicitor give you a written thumbnail of the current status and how you go about obtaining freehold in the future. With an approximation for the legal and leasehold purchase costs likely to be involved.

You can't be expected to go in eyes close on potential future issues and need him to give you a written steer - so that if it goes pear shaped you have him on the hook.

"Nothing to worry about" on the phone won't count if you encounter trouble later.

machalla · 14-03-2019 6:08pm

I haven't followed the whole thread here but I had a situation where I had purchased a house with a freehold and still had an individual come along a year or so later who claimed to be entitled to ground rent.

They were known for this tactic despite not being the least bit entitled to a penny. Obviously I binned the letter and never heard another word.

Tigerandahalf · 14-03-2019 6:09pm

You need to be careful. It may not be a huge issue but if you want to do extensions down the line you need to be sure that the land is yours and that nobody else has a right.

Your solicitor doesn't seem to have his homework done or wants to keep you blind to the situation.

Muahahaha · 14-03-2019 8:46pm

bri007 wrote: »

Solicitor seems to be very causal about it. Am I just being over picky about it all?

Your solicitor is being very casual about it OP. He is fobbing you off and delibritely confusing you in the hope that you'll give up. As others said generally you can buy the leasehold out but right now you do not know that for a fact, for all you know it could be in the hands of someone who later intends to profit from you or else make things very awkward for you. I'm not saying this will happen but it is a worst case scenario and if your solicitor is not checking this out now then you could find yourself stuck between a rock and a hard place further down the line.

I would be emailing him instructions to clarify the sitaution including costs for how much it will need to put right, it could add up to thousands in legal fees. Remember he works for you so don't let him fob you off again. Finally he needs to be requesting a statutory declaration from the vendor that there has been no demand of rent on the lease, if he is not insisting on this very important document then he definitely isn't doing his job right.

Kev1001 · 14-03-2019 8:54pm

Unless you think the house is worth way more than you are paying for it, I would walk away.

For €450k you shouldn't have to deal with that.

What are similar properties in the area priced at?

starbaby2003 · 14-03-2019 8:58pm

We are in the process of buying out our leasehold. 3 bed semi D. Built late 1950’s 150 year lease. It has been zero hassle. I would not in anyway let it put you off buying.

Samuel T. Cogley · 14-03-2019 9:03pm

It all depends how easy it is to sort out. Our solicitor provided advice on purchasing the freehold at the pre-purchase stage. I'm a bit confused why yours seems to be obfuscating the issue. Possibly too busy to properly deal with the situation? This is quite common if you've engaged one at the cheaper end of the scale, they tend to work on volume and aren't great if you need tailored advice.

bri007 · 14-03-2019 9:13pm

The solicitor is by no means cheap! In fact it’s a little more than some prices we got quoted on before we went with this one.

Problem is the solicitor we went with from the start decided when we went sale agreed to delegate the task to another solicitor in the firm and he will oversee him.

I’m not sure if the current one now is a trainee or what but I’ve no confidence in him at all now and don’t know what to do!

He’s adamant about the freehold and won’t budge with it. He also asked have we accepted the loan offer from our bank?? I asked to clarify that, as I said yes we have accepted it and then he replied by saying dodnwe sign it and I said no! He then goes well I need to get working on it and let him work on the legal side of it.

Eight me being totally confused I contacted my broker for some advice and she was horrified and said that is meant to be signed in person with the solicitor.

I feel totally lost about it all now and I don’t know what to do. The solicitor was pushy from the get go!

antoinolachtnai · 14-03-2019 9:35pm

You clearly don't know much about title in Ireland. There is nothing wrong with that. A lot of the advice on this thread is written by people who don't know much about it either. There is some awful rubbish written in this thread.

But what you are entitled to and what you need is advice. Ask the solicitor what advice he can give you in relation to the leasehold to set your mind at ease. It's really his job to set your mind at ease.

That advice should be provided in writing if this is a concern for you.

If the solicitor assigned is not able to explain it satisfactorily I would suggest you call on the original overseeing solicitor.

Just because a solicitor (or a legal clerk) isn't good at explaining these things doesn't mean they are not a skilled conveyancer.

For your issue with the broker and the signing of loan offer, ask the broker and the solicitor to sort it out between them.

I don't know your exact situation, but this is probably going to all be ok. Be patient, hold your nerve.

Posy · 15-03-2019 1:01am

starbaby2003 wrote: »

We are in the process of buying out our leasehold. 3 bed semi D. Built late 1950’s 150 year lease. It has been zero hassle. I would not in anyway let it put you off buying.

Are you doing this through a solicitor?

gmisk · 15-03-2019 9:43am

starbaby2003 wrote: »

We are in the process of buying out our leasehold. 3 bed semi D. Built late 1950’s 150 year lease. It has been zero hassle. I would not in anyway let it put you off buying.

The poster had stated that the leasehold might be split between 5 or 6 different parties I would think this would complicate things considerably.
Your paying a solicitor get them to check it out. As other people have said get it in writing.

When buying my house the solicitor said it was leasehold and had about 80 years left, he said I could go via him (after puchase) at a later date and buy freehold (ex council house) or buy it directly which I did via PRAI in the end, it cost about 200 Euro and took about 2/3 months.

starbaby2003 · 15-03-2019 9:53am

gmisk wrote: »

The poster had stated that the leasehold might be split between 5 or 6 different parties I would think this would complicate things considerably.
Your paying a solicitor get them to check it out. As other people have said get it in writing.

When buying my house the solicitor said it was leasehold and had about 80 years left, he said I could go via him (after puchase) at a later date and buy freehold (ex council house) or buy it directly which I did via PRAI in the end, it cost about 200 Euro and took about 2/3 months.

We just went via the arbitration route on the prai. Ours had changed hands numerous times. It is up to the lessor to get in contact then. It will be held in an account for a number of years. https://www.prai.ie

Franz Von Peppercorn · 15-03-2019 9:59am

The solicitor is saying I think that buying the property and buying out the leasehold are too different actions, and you need to do the former before you do the latter.

The only question that needs to be answered is whether buying out this leasehold is more complicated than usual or not.

bri007 · 15-03-2019 12:01pm

Totally lost trust in our solicitor now..... he emailed me someone else’s information about their house purchase, personal info!

I wonder is it to late to change solicitor now, just worried about cost involved!

Samuel T. Cogley · 15-03-2019 1:08pm

bri007 wrote: »

Totally lost trust in our solicitor now..... he emailed me someone else’s information about their house purchase, personal info!

I wonder is it to late to change solicitor now, just worried about cost involved!

I'd be negotiating that asap.

Rew · 15-03-2019 1:11pm

bri007 wrote: »

Totally lost trust in our solicitor now..... he emailed me someone else’s information about their house purchase, personal info!

I wonder is it to late to change solicitor now, just worried about cost involved!

Thats a GDPR breach... which he is obliged notify the other person about.

You can change but it will likely cost you a fir bit and delay you. I had a solicitor tell me a house that we subsequently bought was "un-buyable". Cost me €400 for him to give me is bad advice and be rude over the phone.

Tigerandahalf · 15-03-2019 3:05pm

Really the system should be better.
Any house put on the market should clearly state whether any management company, rights of way, freehold/leasehold exists. The obligation should be on the seller to make things clear.

There is also a mess with new build housing estates and confusion over who owns common areas and has responsibility to maintain them.

antiskeptic · 15-03-2019 4:55pm

bri007 wrote: »

Totally lost trust in our solicitor now..... he emailed me someone else’s information about their house purchase, personal info!

I wonder is it to late to change solicitor now, just worried about cost involved!

I wouldn't be getting my knickers in a twist. Your in the middle of a house buy. It's a stressful time.

The advice seems clear in thread:

- buying a freehold is something that is usually not an issue and takes place outside the conveyancing

- get your solicitor to outline in writing what's involved, are there significant risks, what are the expected costs. If things turn out much different, you can take your solicitor to task via the Law Society. He's says its straightforward and nothing to worry about. Get him to say that in writing.

- accept a mistake was made sending you some wrong docs. It happens.

Don't panic. Moving solicitor now will simply cost you money. And you have the possibility of getting a weak solicitor.

annoyedgal · 15-03-2019 10:45pm

First house was leasehold. Solicitor mentioned it when going over the contract. Don't remember verbatim what he said but the jist was it was no issue and not expensive to resolve. Never did a thing and sold on years later and was no issue when selling.....that said had absolute faith in mysolocitor and if you don't I would think about changing.

L1011 · 15-03-2019 11:53pm

It only becomes an issue when the remaining years on the lease are relatively low. Plenty were 499 or 999 years to begin with so they'll not be an issue for you or any heirs you're likely to care about!

holliehobbie · 16-03-2019 12:49am

Markcheese wrote: »

You need to know who owns the leasehold..and how easy or expensive it'll be to buy out the lease...
(I had same issue when I bought my house, was a bit surprised to find it was lease hold, owned by the local authority, just as I completed the sale they got rid of all their leaseholds, only cost the solicitors fee..)

The local authority did not get rid of all their leases. There is a lot of ex local authority houses that have 150 year leases. They only started selling them freehold after May 1978.

holliehobbie · 16-03-2019 12:52am

Rew wrote: »

Its normally bought out and converted to freehold as part of a sale, thats what we did

Also it's not normally bought out as part of a sale, nor does it have to be.

holliehobbie · 16-03-2019 1:04am

starbaby2003 wrote: »

We are in the process of buying out our leasehold. 3 bed semi D. Built late 1950’s 150 year lease. It has been zero hassle. I would not in anyway let it put you off buying.

I would hazard a guess yours is ex local authority then? Much simpler process as no other parties involved other than the council and yourselves. Op would have a much more complicated process.

bri007 · 20-03-2019 11:30pm

Following on from my original post, our solicitor (clerk) said he does not need to be present when signing the loan offer that was posted out to the solicitor.

It requests his signature and states it has to be signed in his presence, little confused! I asked broker but he said it’s a conflict of interest to give me anymore advice and to revert to our solicitor but the solicitor said no!!

starbaby2003 · 21-03-2019 11:13am

holliehobbie wrote: »

I would hazard a guess yours is ex local authority then? Much simpler process as no other parties involved other than the council and yourselves. Op would have a much more complicated process.

No it’s not. It’s a private estate in South County Dublin. The process is now complete. Easy and like the OP the leasor was across a few (four in our case) different owners due to deaths etc ..

starbaby2003 · 21-03-2019 11:17am

OP ours has just closed. Seriously zero hassle. Sounds similar to yours. No solicitor involved. You can PM me if you want.

spaceHopper · 21-03-2019 11:21am

We bought out the lease hold on our house after we bought the house it cost about 1100 euros I think. If I was you I'd ask the solicitor for an estimate to buy it out and get on with buying it then buy out the lease hold after.

Thargor · 21-12-2022 4:03pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2057963909/leasehold-house-should-we-still-buy

How did you get on in the end with this? Was it a deal breaker? Going through similar at the moment, waiting to hear back from the solicitors but it's their last day in the office so that's a nice headwreck to chew over for Christmas...

ittakestwo · 22-12-2022 7:03am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120022159#Comment_120022159

Leasehold property is very common in Ireland particularly in older parts of dublin.

If the property is residential then you can force the freeholder to sell you the freehold for a small fee by the landlord tenant act 1980, but your solicitor will charge for the conveyance which will make up most of the cost. Only if the lease is less than 30 years to run then i dont think you can but your solicitor will advise.

The main problem seems to be finding who is entitled to the freehold interest and tracking them down. Usually these leases were taken out in the 19th or early 20th century so finding the heirs now of the then lessor can be extremely difficult. Also it is common to find out that your lessor was actually a lessee themselves so you're buying a "sub lease" property. Still usually not a problem and can still buy out the freehold.

Leasehold house - should we still buy?

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