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Classic car import: what does Brexit mean?

245

Comments

  • #32
    w124man
    Registered Users Posts: 2,301 ✭✭✭w124man


    The days of going across to the UK, buying a car and driving it back on your classic policy are gone too. Insurance companies in the EU wont cover cars registered outside the EU and after Brexit the UK will be out.
    This is a question I was asked recently and I didn't know the answer so I asked a family member who is in the Insurance industry. A UK registered car will need a Green Card to drive in Europe - that bit is on the UK Gov website - so the Insurance companies would need to be a bit flexible.

    Revenue will require an invoice/receipt/proof of payment when the car comes off the boat so the figure used there for import duty and VAT will be the minimum figure used for the VRT as it will be on the clearance certificate.


  • #33
    turbocab
    Registered Users Posts: 226 ✭✭turbocab


    Bigus wrote: »
    Not when the ar5e falls out of prices on classics in the UK , it was also a safety valve here for an irish price floor which will now evaporate . Unsold irish classics were shipped over in bulk, during our hard times and even up to recently in smaller numbers.

    I can already see on eBay , project classics not meeting reserves and not selling in UK , in 18 months , I bet you’ll see pristine cars making buttons over there. The hard part is going to be how to decide which ones to jump on and when.

    good cars are still fetching great money in uk .check results for last weeks silverstone auctions,eg porsche 928se sport 1989 .estimate was between 50 to 60 k. it sold for 129k.


  • #34
    Car99
    Registered Users Posts: 2,530 ✭✭✭Car99


    turbocab wrote: »
    good cars are still fetching great money in uk .check results for last weeks silverstone auctions,eg porsche 928se sport 1989 .estimate was between 50 to 60 k. it sold for 129k.

    Quality will always sell wherever it is located but 99.9% of classics are not top quality they are at best very good condition the other .1% or less are concours, low mileage or survivors of rare models which will always command a sizeable premium for the collector market. When it comes to useable driveable classics the market is more volatile.


  • #35
    turbocab
    Registered Users Posts: 226 ✭✭turbocab


    Car99 wrote: »
    Quality will always sell wherever it is located but 99.9% of classics are not top quality they are at best very good condition the other .1% or less are concours, low mileage or survivors of rare models which will always command a sizeable premium for the collector market. When it comes to useable driveable classics the market is more volatile.

    how about a manta gte with 40k on clock went for 22k sterling at anglia car auctions last week, and it had a respray.You wouldnt get 10 k euros here for that car.So even average classics are still commanding and getting good money in uk


  • #36
    RobAMerc
    Registered Users Posts: 5,862 ✭✭✭RobAMerc


    I dont think it will matter if its a hard or soft brexit - Hard or soft will only be applicable to goods and maybe services imported to and from UK. Cars will always be treated differently, I doubt given how little effort is being invested that the importation of cars will be covered by any deal they do.

    UK will be treated as a "third" country.


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  • #37
    RobAMerc
    Registered Users Posts: 5,862 ✭✭✭RobAMerc


    turbocab wrote: »
    good cars are still fetching great money in uk .check results for last weeks silverstone auctions,eg porsche 928se sport 1989 .estimate was between 50 to 60 k. it sold for 129k.

    is it that people are putting there cash into thinking Brexit is going to make cash worthless ?


  • #38
    Justinwick
    Registered Users Posts: 10 ✭Justinwick


    Looks like between now and next Tuesday Johnson and the EU are claiming that they will have some sort of agreement in place regarding trade so just hoping now that it is broad and covers cars


  • #39
    Car99
    Registered Users Posts: 2,530 ✭✭✭Car99


    Justinwick wrote: »
    Looks like between now and next Tuesday Johnson and the EU are claiming that they will have some sort of agreement in place regarding trade so just hoping now that it is broad and covers cars

    The UK buy alot of cars and commercial vehicles from the EU so I would be hopeful vehicles will be included in any deal. Our friends in Revenue will try to find a way to make it more expensive to import though anywhere they see an opportunity.


  • #40
    w124man
    Registered Users Posts: 2,301 ✭✭✭w124man


    Car99 wrote: »
    The UK buy alot of cars and commercial vehicles from the EU so I would be hopeful vehicles will be included in any deal. Our friends in Revenue will try to find a way to make it more expensive to import though anywhere they see an opportunity.

    When the UK is out of the EU WTO rules apply. Cars from the UK will attract the same tariffs as those coming in from Japan which we don't moan about.

    Its not up to the Revenue


  • #41
    Isambard
    Registered Users Posts: 5,796 ✭✭✭Isambard


    w124man wrote: »
    When the UK is out of the EU WTO rules apply. Cars from the UK will attract the same tariffs as those coming in from Japan which we don't moan about.

    Its not up to the Revenue

    unless there's a deal


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  • #42
    Car99
    Registered Users Posts: 2,530 ✭✭✭Car99


    w124man wrote: »
    When the UK is out of the EU WTO rules apply. Cars from the UK will attract the same tariffs as those coming in from Japan which we don't moan about.

    Its not up to the Revenue

    For new vehicles yes it's not up to revenue but the value of your secondhand import may be determined by revenue so whilst the rates mate not be up to them the value of the goods can be if they see fit.

    I've brought cars from Japan and I moaned about the tariffs aswel but the cars were alot cheaper in Japan than the UK back then when the JPY was weak so it was still financially a good deal.


  • #43
    traco
    Registered Users Posts: 1,586 ✭✭✭traco


    VAT is applicable irresepective of deal or no deal. That will be based on purchase price including transport costs to Ireland. Duty is the only thing that is up for review. A 3rd country with no deal will be 10% so if there is something agreed it may come down in the future but who knows.

    Unknowns:
    Original UK cars that have been registered in NI?? Will they be included or not?
    Buying something that needs work - will revenue accept the invoice and tansfer or will they place their own "valuation" on it?


  • #44
    RobAMerc
    Registered Users Posts: 5,862 ✭✭✭RobAMerc


    Isambard wrote: »
    unless there's a deal

    the deal will have to include a no tariff deal on cars - it most probably wont.

    Europe has a trade deal with Japan - you still pay tariffs on imported cars from there.


  • #45
    w124man
    Registered Users Posts: 2,301 ✭✭✭w124man


    Bringing cars in at this time could be tricky for a number of reasons, the uncertainty of whats around the corner or not is the biggest.

    I'm looking at a W124 which I really should buy but I cant get over to view because of covid. Even if I could, I'm unlikely get a VRT appointment this year so I could be charged VAT and duty if it gets dragged into 2021 as the car will need a time consuming valuation. Deal or no deal wont change the fact that the UK will be a 'third country' and tax wise it must be treated so.

    I think we will see a lot more LHD classics in future


  • #46
    RobAMerc
    Registered Users Posts: 5,862 ✭✭✭RobAMerc


    due to the backlog - I imagine making a booking in 2020 for a vrt inspection on a car thats in Ireland before 31 Dec 2020 should be subject to 2020 rules, even if the actual inspection is in 2021


  • #47
    Isambard
    Registered Users Posts: 5,796 ✭✭✭Isambard


    you'd think... but not what people seem to be saying.


  • #48
    w124man
    Registered Users Posts: 2,301 ✭✭✭w124man


    RobAMerc wrote: »
    due to the backlog - I imagine making a booking in 2020 for a vrt inspection on a car thats in Ireland before 31 Dec 2020 should be subject to 2020 rules, even if the actual inspection is in 2021

    So if the car has been in the country for 20 years will be subject to 2020 rules? Eh no! Its all done on the day its presented and from 01/01/2021 all vehicles presented for VRT must be accompanied with a Customs Clearance Certificate. Its all on the Revenue site


  • #49
    macplaxton
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 2,957 Mod ✭✭✭✭macplaxton


    Vehicles brought into the State from the UK before 1 January 2021 can be registered as normal.
    • Customers must provide documentation to prove that the vehicle was acquired prior to 1 January 2021.

    For vehicles registered after 31 December 2020, Revenue may require proof that the importation process was tax and duty compliant.

    https://www.revenue.ie/en/customs-traders-and-agents/brexit/information-for-businesses/vrt-implications-of-trade-with-the-uk/vrt-implications-of-importing-cars-from-the-uk.aspx


  • #50
    Car99
    Registered Users Posts: 2,530 ✭✭✭Car99


    w124man wrote: »
    So if the car has been in the country for 20 years will be subject to 2020 rules? Eh no! Its all done on the day its presented and from 01/01/2021 all vehicles presented for VRT must be accompanied with a Customs Clearance Certificate. Its all on the Revenue site

    Could I go to customs Monday and ask for a customs clearance cert for a car I'm bringing in from the uk even though zero tax or vat due .


  • #51
    RobAMerc
    Registered Users Posts: 5,862 ✭✭✭RobAMerc


    w124man wrote: »
    So if the car has been in the country for 20 years will be subject to 2020 rules? Eh no!

    I think you know well I meant for a car that has had the booking made within 30days of being in the country but unable to get an appointment before 31/12 due to the backlog.

    If the car was here 20 years there would be a crap ton of penalties to pay anyway
    Additional VRT is charged when a vehicle is not registered within 30 days.

    The additional VRT is added to the total VRT due. The additional charge is calculated by multiplying the total VRT due by 0.1%. An additional 0.1% is added on for every day the vehicle is not registered, from the date of its first entry.


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  • #52
    galwaytt
    Registered Users Posts: 12,749 ✭✭✭✭galwaytt


    Interesting update: Revenue got back to me today on the issue of cars in the country, not being (able) go get inspected by NCTS/VRT system, what will happen, and here's their official stance:

    " Please note that any vehicles that is registered in the year 2021 will go off the new 2021 rates. Therefore it will fall under the new rules."

    So for me that means the horse has already bolted, as NCT/VRT have no slots left this year (I rang them), and rocking up post Jan 1st, means Brexit rules + new VRT rules.

    Ode To The Motorist

    “And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, generates funds to the exchequer. You don't want to acknowledge that as truth because, deep down in places you don't talk about at the Green Party, you want me on that road, you need me on that road. We use words like freedom, enjoyment, sport and community. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent instilling those values in our families and loved ones. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the tax revenue and the very freedom to spend it that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise I suggest you pick up a bus pass and get the ********* ********* off the road” 



  • #53
    Isambard
    Registered Users Posts: 5,796 ✭✭✭Isambard


    well I guess they'd have to say that to discourage the last minute chancers but it's surely challengeable on appeal or in the Courts. It certainly is unjust to move the goalposts like that.


  • #54
    commited
    Registered Users Posts: 2,280 ✭✭✭commited


    galwaytt wrote: »
    Interesting update: Revenue got back to me today on the issue of cars in the country, not being (able) go get inspected by NCTS/VRT system, what will happen, and here's their official stance:

    " Please note that any vehicles that is registered in the year 2021 will go off the new 2021 rates. Therefore it will fall under the new rules."

    So for me that means the horse has already bolted, as NCT/VRT have no slots left this year (I rang them), and rocking up post Jan 1st, means Brexit rules + new VRT rules.

    Not necessarily, the video on this topic said otherwise. Importation and registration are two different processes. The new rules they refer to most likely relate to the new VRT rules (which is the main bugbear for regular car imports). Importation is the process that will involve VAT and Duty which should be caught at port.

    The great unknown is whether or not a customs clearance cert will be required and indeed how to get one.


  • #55
    scannerd
    Registered Users Posts: 236 ✭✭scannerd


    RobAMerc wrote: »
    I think you know well I meant for a car that has had the booking made within 30days of being in the country but unable to get an appointment before 31/12 due to the backlog.

    If the car was here 20 years there would be a crap ton of penalties to pay anyway

    You can't currently VRT a car which if its not functioning as a car ie able to drive to the inspection, so not true if car is a project which not been on the road the whole time, there is no way to VRT it.


  • #56
    Isambard
    Registered Users Posts: 5,796 ✭✭✭Isambard


    scannerd wrote: »
    You can't currently VRT a car which if its not functioning as a car ie able to drive to the inspection, so not true if car is a project which not been on the road the whole time, there is no way to VRT it.

    yes but there is no recognition of this in Law. If you can't VRT it because it doesn't work, there is no provision for you avoiding penalties on registration.


  • #57
    w124man
    Registered Users Posts: 2,301 ✭✭✭w124man


    commited wrote: »


    The great unknown is whether or not a customs clearance cert will be required and indeed how to get one.

    Its not a great unknown. The revenue clearly have stated that if you present a car from a 'third country' you must have a clearance certificate and its been like that for years. From 01/01/21 the UK is a 'third country'. We have known for months that this has being coming so why are we complaining? Its not 'unjust' to change the goalposts. Blame the Brits, they voted for it, its their fault!


  • #58
    RobAMerc
    Registered Users Posts: 5,862 ✭✭✭RobAMerc


    scannerd wrote: »
    You can't currently VRT a car which if its not functioning as a car ie able to drive to the inspection, so not true if car is a project which not been on the road the whole time, there is no way to VRT it.

    I hear you - but if you know revenue, you'll know fairness is not a priority for them.
    Black and white rules that fall in their favour are par for the course I am afraid.


  • #59
    galwaytt
    Registered Users Posts: 12,749 ✭✭✭✭galwaytt


    scannerd wrote: »
    You can't currently VRT a car which if its not functioning as a car ie able to drive to the inspection, so not true if car is a project which not been on the road the whole time, there is no way to VRT it.

    You were still required to 'import' it at the actual time ..of import. Revenue dont give a monkeys in that regard.

    Ode To The Motorist

    “And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, generates funds to the exchequer. You don't want to acknowledge that as truth because, deep down in places you don't talk about at the Green Party, you want me on that road, you need me on that road. We use words like freedom, enjoyment, sport and community. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent instilling those values in our families and loved ones. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the tax revenue and the very freedom to spend it that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise I suggest you pick up a bus pass and get the ********* ********* off the road” 



  • #60
    Car99
    Registered Users Posts: 2,530 ✭✭✭Car99


    galwaytt wrote: »
    You were still required to 'import' it at the actual time ..of import. Revenue dont give a monkeys in that regard.

    I asked nct to vrt a non running classic back in the summer and they said dont bring it into to us unless it is complete and running. So I didnt . It might be for the best anyways the car is worth more in the UK.


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  • #61
    macplaxton
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 2,957 Mod ✭✭✭✭macplaxton


    galwaytt wrote: »
    You were still required to 'import' it at the actual time ..of import. Revenue dont give a monkeys in that regard.

    Yes, at the actual time of import it is "quality used spares'" and when it becomes a "mechanically propelled vehicle" it then becomes a VRT/registration matter.


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