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Unwelcome Lodger

  • 01-04-2020 6:20pm
    #1
    Rasher1234
    Registered Users Posts: 18 ✭


    Hi
    Does anyone know of a way to evict a lodger without giving reasonable notice?
    I rent a room in my home end relationships have broken down to the extent I want him gone ASAP.
    I know he has little or no rights (he is a licencee) and has torn up his 28 day notice and is threatening to call the police on me for harassment ....is there any way I can get rid of him quicker as the situation is very unpleasant in my home.
    Tagged:


«134

Comments

  • #2
    _Brian
    Registered Users Posts: 18,464 ✭✭✭✭_Brian


    Far as I know lodgers have no rights.


    It’s your house.

    If he won’t leave when asked, next time he’s out bag his shiit up leave it outside, text him, block his number and lock the door.


  • #3
    the_syco
    Registered Users Posts: 37,295 ✭✭✭✭the_syco


    Rasher1234 wrote: »
    I rent a room in my home end relationships have broken down to the extent I want him gone ASAP.
    Did you give him a lease? If no, tell him he has 48 hours to get out.

    Also, if he only has a key for the front door, next time he leaves after the 48 hours, change the lock. If you have a car, park it elsewhere for a day or two.


  • #4
    un5byh7sqpd2x0
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,862 ✭✭✭un5byh7sqpd2x0


    He’s a licensee, has no rights including that of a notice period. The existence of a formal lease or otherwise is irrelevant. Ask him to leave immediately


  • #5
    WhiteMemento9
    Registered Users Posts: 1,573 ✭✭✭WhiteMemento9


    the_syco wrote: »
    Did you give him a lease? If no, tell him he has 48 hours to get out.

    Also, if he only has a key for the front door, next time he leaves after the 48 hours, change the lock. If you have a car, park it elsewhere for a day or two.

    Is he not covered under the new evictions laws?


  • #6
    dublinbando
    Registered Users Posts: 185 ✭✭dublinbando


    Pretty sure the new covid measures prevent you evicting even a licensee, be very careful, you evict him and you could be in hot water legally.


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  • #7
    Blaze420
    Closed Accounts Posts: 904 ✭✭✭Blaze420


    dublinbando wrote: »
    Pretty sure the new covid measures prevent you evicting even a licensee

    Nope rental only where there’s an agreement- **** him out the door


  • #8
    the_syco
    Registered Users Posts: 37,295 ✭✭✭✭the_syco


    WhiteMemento9 wrote: »
    Is he not covered under the new evictions laws?
    dublinbando wrote: »
    Pretty sure the new covid measures prevent you evicting even a licensee, be very careful, you evict him and you could be in hot water legally.
    Only if the lodger is a student.


  • #9
    WhiteMemento9
    Registered Users Posts: 1,573 ✭✭✭WhiteMemento9


    Blaze420 wrote: »
    Nope rental only where there’s an agreement- **** him out the door
    Irish Times wrote:
    A ban on evictions of tenants for the duration of the Covid-19 crisis has been expanded to include all tenancies in the State, including those not covered by the Residential Tenancies Act.

    Does that not mean the opposite?


  • #10
    Blaze420
    Closed Accounts Posts: 904 ✭✭✭Blaze420


    WhiteMemento9 wrote: »
    Does that not mean the opposite?

    If you want to be hard arsed then no, a room rental is a licensee not a tenant of any description


  • #11
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    the_syco wrote: »
    Only if the lodger is a student.

    and living in student accommodation...


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  • #12
    dublinbando
    Registered Users Posts: 185 ✭✭dublinbando


    WhiteMemento9 wrote: »
    Does that not mean the opposite?

    Correct, if you actually look at the emergency legislation, it includes lodgers as PBP kicked up a stink about it


  • #13
    WhiteMemento9
    Registered Users Posts: 1,573 ✭✭✭WhiteMemento9


    Blaze420 wrote: »
    If you want to be hard arsed then no, a room rental is a licensee not a tenant of any description

    What are you talking about, hard arsed? I don't fully understand the new laws so I asked a question. Are you OK?


  • #14
    Time
    Registered Users Posts: 993 ✭✭✭Time


    WhiteMemento9 wrote: »
    Does that not mean the opposite?

    The Irish Times misunderstood the scope of the legislation. It does not apply to licencee arrangements in private dwellings where the owner also lives. The examiner ran a piece today confirming as much.


  • #15
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    The Government has asked landlords of tenants living in informal accommodation to show “allegiance” and not evict them.

    Last month, the Government announced a temporary ban on evictions and a pause on rent increases for an initial period of three months while the Covid-19 crisis is ongoing.

    However, more informal arrangements, where tenants rent a room in a landlord’s home, or student digs, are exempt from the ban.

    https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/landlords-urged-not-to-evict-rent-a-room-tenants-during-covid-19-emergency-991457.html

    also:

    https://twitter.com/merrionstreet/status/1245306534646644738


  • #16
    the_syco
    Registered Users Posts: 37,295 ✭✭✭✭the_syco


    https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/landlords-urged-not-to-evict-rent-a-room-tenants-during-covid-19-emergency-991457.html
    However, more informal arrangements, where tenants rent a room in a landlord’s home, or student digs, are exempt from the ban.
    So OP is not affected by the ban.


  • #17
    WhiteMemento9
    Registered Users Posts: 1,573 ✭✭✭WhiteMemento9


    dublinbando wrote: »
    Correct, if you actually look at the emergency legislation, it includes lodgers as PBP kicked up a stink about it

    That was my reading of the way it was worded too but as I said in the previous post it is just from reading of the way it is worded rather than actuallly having any insight in the area.


  • #18
    Samuel T. Cogley
    Registered Users Posts: 10,684 ✭✭✭✭Samuel T. Cogley


    You need to give reasonable notice, but that is at most, a month. At the end of the 28 days change the locks. IF the 'lodger' tries to gain access, you should be the one calling the guards. I stress that 28 days is extremely generous in terms of notice, but if that's what you've given them...


  • #19
    fliball123
    Registered Users Posts: 7,445 ✭✭✭fliball123


    Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »
    You need to give reasonable notice, but that is at most, a month. At the end of the 28 days change the locks. IF the 'lodger' tries to gain access, you should be the one calling the guards. I stress that 28 days is extremely generous in terms of notice, but if that's what you've given them...

    Also make sure you have it in writing for him and I would even bring a copy of the notice to a garda if you can and ask them to initial it stating that you have presented it with your lodger. You have a good eye witness that you were and are taking the action just cover all basis 28 days then boot him out and wave at him from the window :)


  • #20
    Rasher1234
    Registered Users Posts: 18 ✭Rasher1234


    Thank you all ....just reassuring to know that I'm not incorrect in my thinking .

    HAP are paying for his room , but notwithstanding this , its my understanding that the lodger / homeowner position still stands....he shares my home and facilities, has no separate entrance etc etc so cannot be regarded as a defacto tenant.

    The only reason me giving 28 days is that HAP pay monthly and I think I need to align with that.

    The new Covid19 arrangements are uniquely for Tenancy situations is my understanding .

    Citizens advice / Threshold / Irish property owners etc appear to side with me.

    He refuses to engage personally unless its sneering e mails and personalized negative commentary / covert threats of legal action etc should I attempt to get him out.

    The situation is untenable , but I fail to see why he's demanding to stay , if my home is so horrific and I'm personally traumatizing to him????

    Anywhere I have researched are silent as to what could be considered antisocial behaviour .....

    Anyone have similar experiences and its heading in the direction of the guards


  • #21
    MissShihTzu
    Registered Users Posts: 1,080 ✭✭✭MissShihTzu


    He is a licencee and not a tenant. Tell him he has 48 hours to pack his sh1t and get out.

    Ask if a Gard can be present to prevent any aggro. (Might be a problem in present circumstances, but no harm in asking, I guess) Failing that, can you have a couple of large friends of the male variety present in case he kicks off?


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  • #22
    Aye Bosun
    Registered Users Posts: 349 ✭✭Aye Bosun


    You’re not going to get any help from the Guards, this is the last thing they will want to get involved in in the current climate.

    Your lodger is a licensee not a tenant therefore not affected by the new legislation. Reasonably note is subjective, if you have felt unsafe/threaten in your home because of the the lodgers actions you are within your rights to eject him immediately. As a lodger, their only recourse against you is from the small claims court for retention of deposit, so make sure you return that in full regardless of any damage/outstanding bills etc (write that off to experience)

    But you are going have to put your big girl/boy pants on and enforce this yourself..as I said the guards will be no help, it would be a PR nightmare to be seen helping evict someone right now even when it perfectly legal.

    It’s a really hard situation and I feel for you. I have had to do it with a lodger a few years ago and it’s not a nice thing to deal with. Have to say i’ve been letting out a room for over 10 years now and only had 1 issue so far. My current lodger, who has lived here 3 years is lovely and been respectful with hygiene etc. and it’s nice to have the company too while in lockdown.

    Not all lodger situations turn bad, contrary to most opinions I see on boards.


  • #23
    amadangomor
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,148 ✭✭✭amadangomor


    If he is acting so badly you owe him nothing.

    My sister was in a similar situation with a very messy alcoholic and in the end I came over and changed the locks when he left for work.

    Change the locks when he next leaves the house and leave his stuff outside the door. If he won't go away call the guards.


  • #24
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 26,986 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    I'm not sure how the OP is supposed to just change the locks in the current environment?

    An easier solution is to move your car and then just lock the door behind you and leave your keys in the door. Its not like you have anywhere to go so just stay in your house for a couple of days and he will have to move on unless he is going to sleep in the driveway waiting for you to come out. If he does then call the guards.


  • #25
    listermint
    Registered Users Posts: 33,543 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    Leave key in door or deadlock door when he goes shopping and leave his stuff outside. This is the least confrontational way to get this done. In many ways it removes his options of reply which means the human interaction is taken away


  • #26
    TheBoyConor
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,292 ✭✭✭TheBoyConor


    For a lodger who is being threatening and abusive, I would consider reasonable notice to be the amount of time it takes for his arse to hit the ground after being ejected head first through the front door.

    Lodgers are there at the homeowners say so. the licence can be withdrawn at any time.

    Thankfully the new laws exempt rent-a-rooms from the eviction ban. To not be exempt would be preposterous! It would mean that a homeowner and their family could be effectively held hostage in their own home by a rogue lodger who may be antisocial and abusive. The house is the owners house and home. It should not be considered the lodgers home - they are merely passing through.

    I cannot fathom why anyone would accept HAP for a lodger arrangement. It is not obligatory. I wouldn't touch a HAPper with a pole. As far as I'd be concerned as a homeowner renting a room, anyone who cannot pay their own way and be out working during the day would not be welcome.

    I wonder whether it is legal for a homeowner to refuse HAP or is that just for actual tenancies?

    Whatever about HAP, why anyone would rent a room to an alcoholic is beyond me. If I had any sort of inklings that a lodger had a drink or drug taking issue, they would be out the door the following morning. My house would not be a venue for illegal substances nor do I want it burned to the ground by a drunkard leaving the cooker or an electric heater on at 2m.


  • #27
    Browney7
    Registered Users Posts: 3,098 ✭✭✭Browney7


    TheBoyConor wrote: »
    For a lodger who is being threatening and abusive, I would consider reasonable notice to be the amount of time it takes for his arse to hit the ground after being ejected head first through the front door.

    Lodgers are there at the homeowners say so. the licence can be withdrawn at any time.

    Thankfully the new laws exempt rent-a-rooms from the eviction ban. To not be exempt would be preposterous! It would mean that a homeowner and their family could be effectively held hostage in their own home by a rogue lodger who may be antisocial and abusive. The house is the owners house and home. It should not be considered the lodgers home - they are merely passing through.

    I cannot fathom why anyone would accept HAP for a lodger arrangement. It is not obligatory. I wouldn't touch a HAPper with a pole. As far as I'd be concerned as a homeowner renting a room, anyone who cannot pay their own way and be out working during the day would not be welcome.

    I wonder whether it is legal for a homeowner to refuse HAP or is that just for actual tenancies?

    Whatever about HAP, why anyone would rent a room to an alcoholic is beyond me. If I had any sort of inklings that a lodger had a drink or drug taking issue, they would be out the door the following morning. My house would not be a venue for illegal substances nor do I want it burned to the ground by a drunkard leaving the cooker or an electric heater on at 2m.

    You can earn 35000 net and be entitled to HAP in Dublin so not exactly a given that a Hap tenant will be at home all day.


  • #28
    BarryD2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,732 ✭✭✭BarryD2


    GreeBo wrote: »
    I'm not sure how the OP is supposed to just change the locks in the current environment?

    An easier solution is to move your car and then just lock the door behind you and leave your keys in the door. Its not like you have anywhere to go so just stay in your house for a couple of days and he will have to move on unless he is going to sleep in the driveway waiting for you to come out. If he does then call the guards.

    He/she might need a glazier, never mind a locksmith! Can the OP not resolve this more 'amicably'? Has the lodger family, friends they can contact? Try and get them to persuade him that best thing is to move at the present. On other hand, if he stays in his room, can the OP not put up with it for a few more weeks till hopefully this virus crisis is passing???


  • #29
    TheBoyConor
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,292 ✭✭✭TheBoyConor


    Op could warn the lodger that they will tell their employer of their erratic behaviour.


  • #30
    Browney7
    Registered Users Posts: 3,098 ✭✭✭Browney7


    TheBoyConor wrote: »
    Op could warn the lodger that they will tell their employer of their erratic behaviour.

    Notwithstanding the OP can tell the lodger to leave with "reasonable notice" I don't see what behaviour is too erratic or threatening based on what the OP has said so not sure what bringing any employer into it would achieve?

    From the OP:

    "I know he has little or no rights (he is a licencee) and has torn up his 28 day notice and is threatening to call the police on me for harassment"

    "He refuses to engage personally unless its sneering e mails and personalized negative commentary / covert threats of legal action etc should I attempt to get him out."


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  • #31
    Rasher1234
    Registered Users Posts: 18 ✭Rasher1234


    Many thanks for your input everyone....it has been of great support personally.

    The lodger has now sent me an e mail on my work account & not my personal e mail, saying that he is a tenant and has rights and I’m an alcoholic / drug abuser drink and that I'm harassing him by asking him to leave! FFS !

    Crime victim’s helpline advise that is just not on and to get to the police immediately.

    Flac have advised that he has crossed all boundaries for lodger / tenant by connecting with me at work (as e mail are the property of the company), and such statements are flagrantly abusive and harassing and more so as he has chosen to involve my work.

    Apparently, they have seen this all before and would appear he is attempting escalating matters to provoke me to doing something illegal. He now has zero rights and has now forfeited the courtesy of me giving reasonable notice.

    I have additionally returned the current HAP payment for April back to HAP this morning.

    Im off to the police this afternoon !

    Wish me luck!


This discussion has been closed.
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