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How will history remember Cpt. Robert Nairac?

  • 16-08-2014 11:13pm
    #1
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,393 ✭✭✭


    The SAS agent who has been hailed as a hero by some & a lawless maniac by others behind some of the worst atrocities during he mid 70's of the Troubles, linked to things like the Kingsmill massacre to the Dublin and Monaghan bombings.

    until he got caught he had a very good run from around 71 - 76 getting a number of top IRA men when his cover was finally blown when he walked into a Republican pub (something he would regularly do to gather int. on Republicans) in South armagh & gave his name of that as a Official IRA man who had just died.

    Those who call him a hero attribute this to his bringing to justice of some high profile IRA figures while operating dangerously deep in enemy territory

    The ones who say he was a maniac are some high profile British Army members who say he organized the Dublin bombings & other massacres like kingsmill & the Miami showband killings because he was against the 75 ceasefire & wanted inflame sectarian tensions (he was a Catholic himself) & he was also involved with the Clockwork Orange operation, a military coup that would go ahead if Labor pulled out of Ireland & overthrow the government.

    Opinions?


«1

Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,549 ✭✭✭✭Judgement Day


    How about some links to back up all your anecdotes of who said what about him? All I know is that his body has never turned up.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,504 ✭✭✭tac foley


    The SAS agent who has been hailed as a hero by some & a lawless maniac by others behind some of the worst atrocities during he mid 70's of the Troubles, linked to things like the Kingsmill massacre to the Dublin and Monaghan bombings.

    until he got caught he had a very good run from around 71 - 76 getting a number of top IRA men when his cover was finally blown when he walked into a Republican pub (something he would regularly do to gather int. on Republicans) in South armagh & gave his name of that as a Official IRA man who had just died.

    Those who call him a hero attribute this to his bringing to justice of some high profile IRA figures while operating dangerously deep in enemy territory

    The ones who say he was a maniac are some high profile British Army members who say he organized the Dublin bombings & other massacres like kingsmill & the Miami showband killings because he was against the 75 ceasefire & wanted inflame sectarian tensions (he was a Catholic himself) & he was also involved with the Clockwork Orange operation, a military coup that would go ahead if Labor pulled out of Ireland & overthrow the government.

    Opinions?

    Opinions are like ***holes. everybody has one.

    Let's be seeing some real evidence behind your preposterous accusations, and I'm sure that our opinions will follow pretty quickly.

    So far, all we've heard is opinions of 'others'. Would I be far too off the mark in thinking that in posting this diatribe of alleged infamy that you share them?

    Time to put up, Sir, or shut up.

    tac


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,108 ✭✭✭pedroeibar1


    Welcome back Tac!


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,504 ✭✭✭tac foley


    Welcome back Tac!

    I couldn't let such errant and baseless tripe information comment calumny opinion go unnoticed. :)

    That last sentence is ludicrous in the extreme.

    I call Bullshirt.

    tac


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    Some say he's the Stig.


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 305 ✭✭Jimminy Mc Fukhead


    Captain Nairac was a spy,
    Where is Captain Nairac nigh.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,549 ✭✭✭✭Judgement Day


    Captain Nairac was a spy,
    Where is Captain Nairac nigh.

    After Hours....> http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=7

    >


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 305 ✭✭Jimminy Mc Fukhead



    The above was a rhyme you'd hear from kids in catholic areas of belfast once upon a time. All human knowledge is precious whether or not it serves the slightest human use.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,393 ✭✭✭DarkyHughes


    How about some links to back up all your anecdotes of who said what about him? All I know is that his body has never turned up.



    At 32:48 the former British officers talk about Nairacs role in the Dublin bomings.

    Ken Livingstone mentioned him several times in parliament about linked to massacres. I'm sure you could find it pretty easy.

    http://www.nuzhound.com/articles/irish_news/arts2007/sep10_Nairac_command_Miami_Showband_Massacre.php

    He was one of the people present at the Miami Showband massacre. Either he's correct or a liar.
    "I never blamed the people who carried out the atrocity, although I condemn what they did," he said.

    "They were pawns being manipulated by a much bigger agenda.

    "I never wanted to tar the unionist people with what was done to us that night."

    He strongly believes that the Englishman who gave the order for their murders was in fact SAS-trained Captain Robert Nairac, who two years later was abducted, killed and his body secretly disposed of by the IRA in south Armagh.

    "The guy who gave the orders was definitely a well-educated English, military man," he said.

    "I remember hearing his clipped English tones and seeing him standing there like an action man in his fatigues.

    "He was definitely the man in charge. I am convinced it was Robert Nairac."


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,357 ✭✭✭Beano


    The SAS agent ...

    what exactly is an SAS agent? the SAS are soldiers. Anyway, he wasnt SAS. He may have received training from them (as would most members of 14 INT, the unit he was actually part of).


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,108 ✭✭✭pedroeibar1


    Ken Livingstone mentioned him several times in parliament about linked to massacres. I'm sure you could find it pretty easy.
    "The guy who gave the orders was definitely a well-educated English, military man," he said.

    "I remember hearing his clipped English tones and seeing him standing there like an action man in his fatigues.

    "He was definitely the man in charge.
    Hmmmm. Definitely proof, that, but......we have to consider that fits 100% of British Army officers.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,504 ✭✭✭tac foley


    Dear Mr Hughes, thank you for posting those interesting links. Until you did so I had never heard of them, but then, in both cases they were published/transmitted in the RoI, and at the time of those occurences - some twenty years ago - I was four thousand miles away, so I can hardly be blamed for missing out on them. I note that in the intervening years ago nothing has been done to bring the [surviving] perpetrators to justice.

    And for Mr pedroeibar1, I was a officer in the British Army, and nobody has ever accused ME of having 'clipped' English tones.

    tac


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 581 ✭✭✭Ralphdejones


    He was just another Dickhead who thought Paddy was an ejit


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,041 ✭✭✭who the fug


    AS ever with Northern Ireland 2 + 2 = 5

    From reading about him , I reckon more Walter Mitty than super SAS agent, to go to a rural pub pretending to be Irish.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,712 ✭✭✭roundymac


    I remember reading a report some years ago(no link) in a Sunday paper that his body was taken to a nearby meat factory and put through the mincer. Not a very nice thought.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 581 ✭✭✭Ralphdejones


    AS ever with Northern Ireland 2 + 2 = 5

    From reading about him , I reckon more Walter Mitty than super SAS agent, to go to a rural pub pretending to be Irish.

    A complete walter that fancied playing secret agent / pub entertainer / man about town, fed on a diet of two many WWII comics, and who got very quickly exposed.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 581 ✭✭✭Ralphdejones


    roundymac wrote: »
    I remember reading a report some years ago(no link) in a Sunday paper that his body was taken to a nearby meat factory and put through the mincer. Not a very nice thought.

    The burgers and sausages sold very well in the chippers of Newry and Dundalk


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,357 ✭✭✭Beano


    A complete walter that fancied playing secret agent / pub entertainer / man about town, fed on a diet of two many WWII comics, and who got very quickly exposed.

    he did four tours in NI so he must have convinced a few people.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 581 ✭✭✭Ralphdejones


    Beano wrote: »
    he did four tours in NI so he must have convinced a few people.

    He didn't do 4 tours of the pubs in Armagh. Outside the barracks is a very different world.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,357 ✭✭✭Beano


    He didn't do 4 tours of the pubs in Armagh. Outside the barracks is a very different world.

    his first tour was with the grenadier guards but the three subsequent were with military intelligence.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 581 ✭✭✭Ralphdejones


    Beano wrote: »
    military intelligence.

    now there's a classic contradiction in terms if ever there was one

    An sas officer singing in pubs in armagh is not very itelligent


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,357 ✭✭✭Beano


    now there's a classic contradiction in terms if ever there was one

    a unique observation indeed.
    An sas officer singing in pubs in armagh is not very itelligent

    he wasnt an sas officer.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,934 ✭✭✭robp


    roundymac wrote: »
    I remember reading a report some years ago(no link) in a Sunday paper that his body was taken to a nearby meat factory and put through the mincer. Not a very nice thought.

    That suggestion comes from a rumour the provo Eamon Collins heard and later published in his book. Some years later it was denied. I don't anyone knows if it is true. A lot of internal information in IRA circles was just rumours and often is highly inaccurate.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    The burgers and sausages sold very well in the chippers of Newry and Dundalk

    Nice.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 38 icecold1066


    We will never know for sure what Nairac's role really was unless a file exists somewhere in British miliitary intelligence archives.
    The politicians, generals and spymasters who ran British operations in Northern Ireland and pulled the strings are mostly dead now or are old men who will feign senility if they are ever asked about Nairac if they are not actually senile by now.
    Most of the loyalists who worked with Nairac are also dead.
    Nairac and activities will probably remain murky.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,126 ✭✭✭Santa Cruz


    Like those on the other side it's easy to create myths about Nairac. We will never know his purpose/role with the British Army. The rumour about the meat factory is just that, a rumour, convenient because of the presence of a meat factory in Ravensdale. More than likely buried in the Cooleys and those who buried him are dead as well.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    You have to wonder how someone with a crisp English accent thought they could get away with going in to republican pubs.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,504 ✭✭✭tac foley


    Apparently, the late Capt Nairac was a gifted mimic, and able to replicate with some degree of plausability the various accents of the locale in which he was operating.

    However, from my own experience of Northern Ireland, the local 'ear' is very finely tuned to even the slightest nuances of accent, from one end of a town mainstreet to the other, and this may have contributed to his eventual downfall.

    tac


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,301 ✭✭✭Snickers Man


    How will he be remembered?

    Probably in this little couplet, designed to illustrate the subtleties of the Belfast accent. (It only rhymes if you speak Bolfost.)

    Captain Nairac was a spy
    Where's Captain Nairac now?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,504 ✭✭✭tac foley


    This is funny?

    How to win friends and influence people.

    Not.

    tac


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