Ryanair Strike, Industrial relations discussion Mod note in post 1

No surprise there. This has been IALPA's dream and quest for more than 20 years. Another word that could be used - revenge.

If it actually goes ahead then I think it will escalate quickly initially before everyone calms down and decides to talk.

It's been festering for years so not going to blow over with 1 strike day.

Padraig Mor wrote:

Does this union actually have the backing of most Irish Ryanair pilots, or is it just a rump of troublemakers? i.e. could it be the case that a significant portion of the schedule would still be flown?

Just said on the news they represent 126 pilots.

Is this Dublin based pilots or actual Irish pilots based around Europe?

Didn't they mention on the news Ryanair cabin crew are discussing industrial action as well? Might be a double whammy next week.

Stevek101 wrote: »

I don't see what the issue is with the venue. Why spend extra money on a room and catering. Day out for the Aer Lingus union reps?

If the venue was of no importance, Ryanair would accept the one proposed by the union.

Both parties obviously have their own reasons for suggesting a specific venue.

Tenger wrote: »

They aren’t looking for a pay increase, they are looking for a seniority list and a transparency around bases choice/allocation. This is the sort of thing that >90% of global airlines have in place.

You're right. It is not about pay. It is about established pilots getting the sweetest deal possible for themselves at the expense of their younger Colleagues in their workplace.
They're voting for the forced introduction of the absolute antithesis of a meritocratic workplace where those with greatest aptitude and work ethic would normally be rewarded.
Instead, the established pilots who voted or rather had the right to vote for this, voted to give themselves the best holiday slots and the best bases.
It is the equivalent of the old hands in the local convenience store giving the new hires all the late night shifts and heavy lifting tasks.

What this means in actuality is that those younger pilots with younger families will find themselves rarely being at home for holiday season or for family occasions and they can't work themselves earlier in to a secure settled base.

Note that the Union pushes on this topic now rather than addressing the high proportion of pilots who are on contracts and are more akin to casual labour. If those younger staff had the vote you could be sure that the vote wouldn't be so resounding in favour of strike action on this topic.

Please remember that the Pilots who are going out on strike are the ones who are disrupting the travel plans of tens of thousands of people. The cabin crew aren't going to be told tomorrow that they don't need to come in on the 12th of July so that they can rearrange their plans; that is a day wasted for them which they are probably not going to get paid for. They'll be told to take a holiday at short notice with nothing to do or forced to work days they had planned to be off duty at another time of the year. As for the other non-union pilots; they either have to work harder to compensate or are told their services aren't needed at short notice because their line training captain isn't available. More days wasted to them.

The topic of seniority is discussed in a more frank and balanced fashion on forums like pprune which isn't frequented by civilians or consumers to the same extent.
Here you just have a pronouncement from the Union representative in residence who also happens to be a moderator that Seniority is common in the Industry and tries to lead affected Customers to believe that once again Ryanair is to blame and because the issue isn't about pay it couldn't possibly be the case that the strike is caused by the greed of a vested interest group i.e. Ryanair Union Member Pilots.

This action hurts Consumers more than Ryanair. No EU261 €250 or €500 compensation needs to be paid by Ryanair as it is a strike action.

Ryanair might actually cave in on this command because they'll just force contracted and junior staff to accept the Seniority rules which the more Senior Pilots are looking to have implemented but don't fool yourself that there is anything noble in the actions of the Union here. The objective here is to cause as much angst for Ryanair Customers in the hope that it somewhat affects the company.

You are hardly an impartial commentator.
Your contributions to this forum have shown that you have been willing on industrial action at every step. You have never wanted the two parties to come to an amicable agreement on any labour relations issue thereby avoiding industrial action.

I judge the Union by their actions and their actions have been to secure preferential terms for themselves at the expense of those they work alongside.
That is not solidarity.

Union votes to be paid one squillion euro for a position close to be classified as a sinecure and acquiesced to by the Company is your idea is your idea of an amicable resolution to an industrial relations issue.
My points stand and your contributions over the past reflect your position.

rivegauche wrote: »

Union votes to be paid one squillion euro for a position close to be classified as a sinecure and acquiesced to by the Company is your idea is your idea of an amicable resolution to an industrial relations issue.
My points stand and your contributions over the past reflect your position.

Pilots wouldn’t have voted at a 99% rate if they weren’t as sick of management as they are. I’m not going to get into it again, but if you were moved from your family in Dublin to sunny Bratislava for 3 years, would you be as quick to judge? The only way pilots can return is if they play a carrot-chasing game with management.

Also, captains (LTCs, TRI/Es as well) have a much higher say in their base etc than new FOs, especially now as captains are so scarce. They’re not voting for ‘sweet’ deals as you alluded to - some of the things management does are just horrible. I stand completely with everyone who balloted for strike action.

rivegauche wrote: »

A quick google tells me that Bratislava was a one plane base from March 2015 until 2017 when it got a second. Is that close to correct? If so, that doesn't strongly support the claim that Ryanair as a rule are intentionally and willfully exiling people to the far ends of Europe.

Doesn’t matter what google says, listen to people from the company/industry, Ryanair love sending their Irish pilots to overseas bases and European pilots to the UK and Irish bases, all having to pay for their own accommodation in their base and if they have a house/family at home there too. They have an absolute shambles of a system thats at breaking point!

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Why does RYR do this, i.e. send pilots who live here abroad, and those abroad to here and UK? I have no idea, someone might fill me in. Sounds very controlling or something like that.

Sorry for all those whose travel plans will be disrupted. It is not nice at all. But sometimes some good comes out of these actions. Unlike the French ATC shenanigans that happen EVERY year and still no end in sight.

Ferries might make a bit of business out of this eventually. Well apart from the ship that is not ready to go now!

AL were in strike mode periodically too a couple of years ago. That seems to have settled down now touch wood.

The problem might be that strikes will continue with short notice if the current issue is not resolved quickly. Not sure of the employment law, maybe seven days must be given of any strike action. Still that's no comfort if you are ready to go.

The company wants to make sure that pilots keep quiet and don’t ask for anything. To do this, they base them far away from their preferred base. In turn, a pilot who wants to return home has to abide by rules such as waking up in the middle of their ‘rest’ period at night to get up for an early start due to sick crew. They are threatened to do other things which I won’t get into and they subdue to this because understandably, they want to get home as soon as they can to their families / homes.

I agree, the whole situation in Europe is a bit of a shambles atm.

Ryanair will only be able to advise of cancelled flights on Tuesday of next week.
"Ryanair has pledged to contact customers next Tuesday should the July 12th strike go ahead."

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/transport-and-tourism/thousands-to-be-hit-by-ryanair-strike-as-unrest-threatens-to-spread-beyond-ireland-1.3552982

Considering the magnitude of the despicable unilateral action by the Unions I'm not surprised that they can't begin to cancel flights before Tuesday.

Please remember that the Unions decided to Strike knowing that it would have an effect on the travel plans of tens of thousands of Irish people. Ryanair didn't force this strike. The Union will use every media outlet available to it to try to convince you otherwise and their claims should be recognized for the blatant falsehoods that they are.

...and always remember this strike is about Seniority. Inform yourself as to what "Seniority" means in practice and if it is something that the Founders of the Trade Union Movement would have ever supported or conversely something that they would have found abhorrent.