What do you expect in a furnished property

SozBbz · 12-08-2019 10:10am #1

My OH and i are in the process of buying our first home together and luckily enough, we're able to do so without selling my existing property (well located 3 bed duplex).

We are planning on renting it out as furnished as is the norm in Ireland and are clear on the bigger items. We're leaving 2x Sofas (3 seater and 2 seater), dinig table and chairs, 2 doubles and 1 single bed and a tv unit. Kitchen is fitted and contains all the usuals. The place is done to a good standard as when I first bought it 5 years ago, I replaced the kitchen so everything was done to owner occupier standard. I'm happy to leave the stuff as our new home is a very different style and moving in our existing stuff wouldn't look right. This way we also keep our moving costs to a minimum.

I'm actually more confused by the smaller items and what else I might need/want to leave in situ.

Would someone moving in to a property as described above want/expect all crockery etc to be provided? Or should we be leaving the kitchen cupboards bare. From memory, the one place I did rent myself exclusively provided plates, pots and pans, cutlery etc, but similarly I know friends who had purchased everything themselves for rented flats. Is there any standard/expectation here?

Also, if we do leave the kitchen reasonably stocked, should I call out these items in the lease? To be honest theres nothing I'm overly precious about but at the same time would rather people didnt totally take liberties and break everything.

Thoughts appreciated!

Doop · 12-08-2019 10:43am

The less the better the better I would say. Most people would rather use their own crockery. Can be a bit annoying to have a few battered old saucepans that you have to keep for years because they belong to the landlord. The less stuff in the place the less to be broken and lead to disagreements at the end. It also depends who your property will appeal to... Students would rather the stuff is provided, family / proffs probably rather their own.

And yes you should take an inventory of all items to append to the lease.

See link below for appliances req'd.
https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/renting_a_home/repairs_maintenance_and_minimum_physical_standards.html

jam_mac_jam · 12-08-2019 10:45am

I wouldn't really expect crockery or small items like that to be provided.

TheShow · 12-08-2019 10:48am

Actual furniture and white goods only.
if you leave crockery/cutlery etc, you would be expected to replace it when it is broken etc.

Far too much hassle.

Just make an inventory of all the items you are leaving, note the condition of same and have the new tenant sign it. That way there can be no disputes other than allowing for normal wear & tear.

thomas 123 · 12-08-2019 10:48am

I would agree with above in relation to the crockery.

From renting this is what I’d expect in a furnished apartment/house.

Beds, wardrobes, sofa, kitchen table, appliances including microwave,kettle, dishwasher, dryer if there is no space for a line(garden), basic set of pots(I wouldn’t use them as I’ve my own but someone may expect them) every place I’ve rented has had cutlery, utensils, and plates and bowls - I don’t think it’s needed.

pwurple · 12-08-2019 10:48am

You've got the requirements covered, you're asking about optional extras like plates and cups.

They are optional. You can either provide them or not, no real expectation either way to be honest. A tenant won't find it difficult to nip to dunnes and get few plates. List whatever you are leaving there in an inventory, and put it in the lease.

One thing to note on tax though, if you are buying things to put in, keep all receipts and submit with your tax return for the year. How recently did you buy the existing furniture, can you include that in your tax return (ask an accountant, may need to be the same year you rent it out)?

I'd advise setting up a separate property income / expenditure bank account. Take rent into it, pay mortgage etc out of it, and any expenses, pay them out of that account also.

SozBbz · 12-08-2019 10:57am

pwurple wrote: »

You've got the requirements covered, you're asking about optional extras like plates and cups.

They are optional. You can either provide them or not, no real expectation either way to be honest. A tenant won't find it difficult to nip to dunnes and get few plates. List whatever you are leaving there in an inventory, and put it in the lease.

One thing to note on tax though, if you are buying things to put in, keep all receipts and submit with your tax return for the year. How recently did you buy the existing furniture, can you include that in your tax return (ask an accountant, may need to be the same year you rent it out)?

I'd advise setting up a separate property income / expenditure bank account. Take rent into it, pay mortgage etc out of it, and any expenses, pay them out of that account also.

Thanks all!

Yes, we are going to set up a separate account for rent to go in and all expenses to come out from.

Also have an appointment set up to meet with an accountant to get some advice and engage them to do our returns when the time comes.

The furniture is roughly 5 years old for the most part but from what I've read I don't expect to be able to write this off, or even part thereof, but will of course check with the accountant.

The crockery itself is from M&S and some of it is chipped after 5 years or so, so ultimately I'm not too worried about it! One less thing to move if we leave it behind us, but obviously we'd then need to buy for our own place.

Creamy Goodness · 12-08-2019 11:03am

The only place chipped crockery should be going is in the bin!

Giving chipped crockery sets the expectation bar very low to the tenant as to how you'd like your property treated.

SozBbz · 12-08-2019 11:46am

Creamy Goodness wrote: »

The only place chipped crockery should be going is in the bin!

Giving chipped crockery sets the expectation bar very low to the tenant as to how you'd like your property treated.

Theres the odd chip through wear and tear over 5 years, they're not totally shabby! It does strike me that maybe they should have held up a bit better but at the same time, maybe the dishwasher is too rough or just the quality of the plates isnt what it should be - surprising as they werent the cheapest. That said we also have a set of 4 pasta bowels from IKEA that are perfect, so maybe I'll blame M&S!

It seems the preference is to leave the place empty so i'll either bring the stuff with us or bring what we don't want to the SVP. I certainly wouldn't want someone to infer that its fine to wreck the place based on some side places that have seen better days.

We're planning to get a professional clean of the place before showing it to tenants so I guess that would be easier if the kitchen was totally empty.

We want to be good landlords and set the right tone with our tenants.

I don't want them to fear talking to us or reporting any maintenance issues, so I want to start as well as possible. Am thinking of leaving a few essentails, like toilet roll and dishwasher tablets just to make the moving process easier.

Creamy Goodness · 12-08-2019 12:07pm

I still think you're going over the top. A chipped plate is a health hazard, all it would take is for a child to injure themselves on it and because you've supplied it, you're on the line for it. I know this is a minuscule possibility but look at the recent claims court cases (12 year old gets 85K because she held a hot beverage under her arm because she wasn't offered a tray etc. article). If you're not required by law to provide it, then don't.

I think you need to treat this like a business and leave the emotional side of it once you close the door behind you.

pwurple · 12-08-2019 12:26pm

Skip the loo roll and dishwasher tablets. You're not a hotel.

Honestly, you're likely to get asked to replace the toilet roll as soon as it runs out. I've been texted by tenants at 2am, asking me to replace hoover bags or light bulbs.

Supply what the place comes with, the rest is their own responsibility. Treat tenants like grown ups, not babies.

SozBbz · 12-08-2019 12:38pm

Creamy Goodness wrote: »

I still think you're going over the top. A chipped plate is a health hazard, all it would take is for a child to injure themselves on it and because you've supplied it, you're on the line for it. I know this is a minuscule possibility but look at the recent claims court cases (12 year old gets 85K because she held a hot beverage under her arm because she wasn't offered a tray etc. article). If you're not required by law to provide it, then don't.

I think you need to treat this like a business and leave the emotional side of it once you close the door behind you.

With respect, I think I articulated quite clearly that I want a good (professional) relationship with our tenants. I don't want to be their friend or their councilor. I won't be replacing light bulbs or hoover bags (the hoover doesnt even have bags for that matter) and will be quite clear on that. However, I absolutely want them to contact us if they notice a leak or staining suggestive of a leak, or if one of the appliances starts to act up before it becomes dangerous.

I fail to see how a nice gesture on day 1 undermines any of the above. Moving is stressful enough without having to worry about loo roll.

[Deleted User] · 12-08-2019 12:39pm

Depends really, I’ve only ever rented in houseshares and crockery is always provided.

I’ve also seen some places to let, particularly high end apartments that had fully stocked kitchens with all crockery, cutlery pots/pans etc.

Really though it depends on the person, if I was renting it I’d be very happy to get all the stuff as When I was renting I never had any of this stuff as it was always provided so plenty would be happy to get it whereas others who have their own would not.

Creamy Goodness · 12-08-2019 12:43pm

SozBbz wrote: »

With respect, I think I articulated quite clearly that I want a good (professional) relationship with our tenants. I don't want to be their friend or their councilor. I won't be replacing light bulbs or hoover bags (the hoover doesnt even have bags for that matter) and will be quite clear on that. However, I absolutely want them to contact us if they notice a leak or staining suggestive of a leak, or if one of the appliances starts to act up before it becomes dangerous.

I fail to see how a nice gesture on day 1 undermines any of the above. Moving is stressful enough without having to worry about loo roll.

A tenant will of course notify you if there's a leak or an appliance breaks, a couple of loo rolls isn't going to change their minds on whether to contact you or not.

SozBbz · 12-08-2019 12:50pm

Creamy Goodness wrote: »

A tenant will of course notify you if there's a leak or an appliance breaks, a couple of loo rolls isn't going to change their minds on whether to contact you or not.

You'd like to think so wouldnt you. Yet there are tonnes of threads on here and elsewhere where tennants don't want to contact their landlords for fear or a rent hike or getting kicked out of whatever. Whether or not those fears are justified of course is another story. In our case they wouldnt as we're in a RPZ, but people are not always rational, especially in the current climate. Fear of rocking the boat is real.

There was also a thread here a few weeks back where a tenant didnt report a leak (as initially they didnt see it as a big deal) and it worsened and meant all the flooring had to be replaced.

I still don't see how leaving some convenience items that cost less than €1 is an issue. We had them left for us when we moved in to our last rented place and I always thought it was a nice touch. We were good tenants too and our LLs were nice, normal people and we both facilitated each other as much as possible, so ideally I'd like to find a similar arrangement.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts · 12-08-2019 1:35pm

I don’t think there’s any need to provide crockery and kitchenware. I’ve lived in a variety of different rentals and the only stuff in the kitchens generally has been detritus left by previous tenants.

A lot of people like to choose their crockery, utensils etc. too. And most people who have been renting for a while should have some kind of collection of kitchen stuff.

bee06 · 12-08-2019 1:44pm

The advice I got from the management company who manage my apartment is to not include any of that small stuff. If dishes break you are responsible for replacing them, there is the hassle of inventorying them at the beginning and end of the tenancy.

SozBbz · 12-08-2019 1:56pm

bee06 wrote: »

The advice I got from the management company who manage my apartment is to not include any of that small stuff. If dishes break you are responsible for replacing them, there is the hassle of inventorying them at the beginning and end of the tenancy.

Thanks, I think i'm clear now on the main question - I'll just clear out the kitchen entirely when we move.

On an aside, do you think going wtih a management company has been the right decision?

Our plan is to find our own tennants, but if the management becomes onerous, we might hand it over to an agency to manage in time.

PhoenixParker · 12-08-2019 1:57pm

As a former tenant please supply the basic minimum.
Decent comfortable functioning furniture and white goods - beds, mattresses, couches, fridge, oven etc.

The little things I would rather have my own and it was always a nuisance to find some out of the way corner for the landlords stuff.

It's easier for you from a maintenance and inventory point of view. It's easier for the tenant because they have things they like and use. There is no advantage to providing it.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts · 12-08-2019 2:11pm

bee06 wrote: »

The advice I got from the management company who manage my apartment is to not include any of that small stuff. If dishes break you are responsible for replacing them, there is the hassle of inventorying them at the beginning and end of the tenancy.

Even if crockery is provided, wouldn’t it be the tenant’s responsibility to replace something that they broke?

fishy_fishy · 12-08-2019 2:31pm

Moved in to our place 6 months ago. Nice apartment in a nice location. Landlord supplied bed & mattress, (fitted) wardrobes, oven, microwave, dishwasher, washing machine, fridge/freezer, armchair, sofa and dining table + chairs. We brought & bought everything else (incl kettle, toaster, bins, T.V. stand, lamps, side tables, rug etc.)

I'm really happy with that. It's our stuff in our home, we know where it's been and like it.

However, the landlord did leave a couple of toilet rolls, and a little bag with a couple of dishwasher and laundry tablets in it. That was a nice gesture and something that we definitely appreciated. That weekend we were flat out moving stuff, going to IKEA, home store and more etc, so was nice to be able to get a takeaway and not worry about a big shop.

bee06 · 12-08-2019 3:34pm

SozBbz wrote: »

Thanks, I think i'm clear now on the main question - I'll just clear out the kitchen entirely when we move.

On an aside, do you think going wtih a management company has been the right decision?

Our plan is to find our own tennants, but if the management becomes onerous, we might hand it over to an agency to manage in time.

For me yes, I don’t have time to be dealing with issues, organising repairs etc (not that it happens very often). They sort out new tenants as well and collect the rent. The cost is tax deductible as well.

bee06 · 12-08-2019 3:38pm

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

Even if crockery is provided, wouldn’t it be the tenant’s responsibility to replace something that they broke?

If they broke it I guess so. If a plate had a chip in it and subsequently broke then it just gets messy. Would you really want to get into the mess of deducting from the deposit at the end of the tenancy for the two missing forks and a broken plate?

SozBbz · 12-08-2019 4:15pm

fishy_fishy wrote: »

Moved in to our place 6 months ago. Nice apartment in a nice location. Landlord supplied bed & mattress, (fitted) wardrobes, oven, microwave, dishwasher, washing machine, fridge/freezer, armchair, sofa and dining table + chairs. We brought & bought everything else (incl kettle, toaster, bins, T.V. stand, lamps, side tables, rug etc.)

I'm really happy with that. It's our stuff in our home, we know where it's been and like it.

However, the landlord did leave a couple of toilet rolls, and a little bag with a couple of dishwasher and laundry tablets in it. That was a nice gesture and something that we definitely appreciated. That weekend we were flat out moving stuff, going to IKEA, home store and more etc, so was nice to be able to get a takeaway and not worry about a big shop.

Thanks, great input! Although this has now given me a few more things to think about.... I'd intended to leave a bin, kettle and toaster and tv unit.

I'd have no issue removing them if the tenants would rather. I suppose I'll leave them in but give them to option that we'll take them away if they'd rather use their own items.

jlm29 · 12-08-2019 5:49pm

I would hold on to whatever you’re wondering about leaving until you’ve chosen a tenant and just ask them if they want it. They might have their own and say so, and they might not, in which case they may be glad to save a few euro buying stuff.

What do you expect in a furnished property

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