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Should nuts in school be banned for the small % who have "nut allergies"

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Comments

  • #62
    Ave Sodalis
    Registered Users Posts: 7,547 ✭✭✭Ave Sodalis


    eviltwin wrote: »
    How?


    I'm going to assume the answer isn't "well, if we leave them in, the kids with nut allergies are more likely to die and so it would decrease the number of kids with nut allergies. Ergo, by removing them from public areas, we increase the number of kids with nut allergies as they're more likely to survive to child bearing age and pass on the probably genetic allergen."



    It's more likely some convoluted idea that exposure decreases the risk, which completely ignores the fact that these kids already have the allergy...


  • #63
    Hobosan
    Registered Users Posts: 582 ✭✭✭Hobosan


    byhookorbycrook wrote: »
    Seriously?So the non-allergic children should inoculate the others by killing them?
    I presume you are anti vax as well, then?

    You presume I'm anti vax because I'm highlighting the strength of the immune system?

    You should really presume I'm pro vaccine given that information.


  • #64
    1hnr79jr65
    Registered Users Posts: 916 ✭✭✭1hnr79jr65


    byhookorbycrook wrote: »
    You lost me at "I don't have any children." Educated?Wiser?I'm a primary teacher with over 30 years of experience. We have had a nut ban for about 15 years and never any issue with any child being threatened in such a fashion. Children who may otherwise be unkind or even bully others are very protective of the children with SEN/physical disabilities and allergies.

    At a rough count. I've taught in 10 different schools. I'm in contact with hundreds of primary teachers per week. So, you know what, I'm going to claim more wisdom and education in this area?

    I've witnessed junior infants tell sub teachers that X can't eat nuts/needs to go to the bathroom more often than others/needs an inhaler sometimes at PE (Sub teacher is always informed of any children with additional needs, but the children look out for them anyhow.)

    My lack of children and lack of being an educator does not invalidate the points i have made. Your experience is just that, your experience, other people have different experiences, it does not make you more educated or wiser.

    My 10 yo nephew has CF, actively tells his teachers about needing certain medications when eating and can't be in contact with other CF kids. I am agreed with alot of smart kids that can communicate these things, however based on ranges across different age groups and schools there is the possibility something could happen.


  • #65
    Cienciano
    Registered Users Posts: 14,215 ✭✭✭✭Cienciano


    Do people love nuts so much that they can't go to school without them?


  • #66
    TheBoyConor
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,292 ✭✭✭TheBoyConor


    When did all this nut/dairy/egg/whatever else allergy and bans and things come in?

    When I was in school there was none of this allergy craic, not that I ever saw or heard of anyway. Every second child these days seems to have some sort of obscure allergy.


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  • #67
    iamwhoiam
    Registered Users Posts: 16,069 ✭✭✭✭iamwhoiam


    Do people not understand this . No one has died from not having nuts for lunch but kids have died because they are in close proximity to nuts
    Is that not very simple for people to get ?


  • #68
    Obvious Desperate Breakfasts
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,474 ✭✭✭Obvious Desperate Breakfasts


    road_high wrote: »
    How we survived primary school from the late 80s to mid 90s without any of this namby pamby nanny state stuff is still a mystery to me. Allergies etc seemed to be almost unheard of

    Do you think severe allergies don’t exist? To the sufferer, it doesn’t matter how rare they are. They are a sufferer and that’s all there is to it.

    I honestly envy people who have so little to worry about that something like a school nut ban is a great affront to them. I mean, seriously. :eek:
    Hobosan wrote: »
    Banning nuts increases allergies due to lack of exposure.

    Now, read through this thread again and look at all the "gobdaws" on their high horses, making the problem worse while thinking themselves ultra considerate and clever.

    Science deniers come in all stripes.

    Children can eat them at home.


  • #69
    iamwhoiam
    Registered Users Posts: 16,069 ✭✭✭✭iamwhoiam


    TheBoyConor wrote: »
    When did all this nut/dairy/egg/whatever else allergy and bans and things come in?

    When I was in school there was none of this allergy craic, not that I ever saw or heard of anyway. Every second child these days seems to have some sort of obscure allergy.

    I did . In A and E way back . I have seen kids die from allergies , seen parents destroyed with grief . It existed all right it was just not diagnosed as much
    Thankfully people are now aware of minor symptoms and carry epipens to avoid a disaster


  • #70
    TheBoyConor
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,292 ✭✭✭TheBoyConor


    Sour Lemonz wrote: »
    My 10 yo nephew has CF, actively tells his teachers about needing certain medications when eating and can't be in contact with other CF kids.

    Why is that? Is it because they have lots of infections that could spread?


  • #71
    Princess Calla
    Registered Users Posts: 5,768 ✭✭✭Princess Calla


    Hobosan wrote: »
    You presume I'm anti vax because I'm highlighting the strength of the immune system?

    You should really presume I'm pro vaccine given that information.

    I've a child with an allergy, not nuts. We found out by accident, or rather the crèche did :(

    The allergy is deemed not severe but we still have to carry epipens everywhere we go.

    We were recommended to introduce foods in a controlled way, I presume to increase the immune system. But it was a controlled way while we had an epipen in our hands. Both of us were there if things went sideways.

    A school with 20-30 students in a class is not a controlled environment.


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  • #72
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭[Deleted User]


    Hobosan wrote: »
    Banning nuts increases allergies due to lack of exposure.

    Now, read through this thread again and look at all the "gobdaws" on their high horses, making the problem worse while thinking themselves ultra considerate and clever.

    Science deniers come in all stripes.

    I believe your referring to the science which shows that exposing your baby to common allergens such as peanuts, at 6 months of age, reduces the risk of them developing an allergy.

    Six months!

    Exposing a school aged child to common allergens such as peanuts will not reduce their risk of having an allergy, as at that age the allergy will already be in existence so your only increasing the risk of illness or death.

    Maybe you need to read up on anaphylaxis. Speaking from experience, it is terrifying to have a family member with such an allergy. The smell alone can lead to death for some and as shown by Susie above, the mere touch can also be fatal. Even administering an epi-pen is not always effective. Its a scary way to live your life, particularly for a child and their parents.


  • #73
    1hnr79jr65
    Registered Users Posts: 916 ✭✭✭1hnr79jr65


    TheBoyConor wrote: »
    Why is that? Is it because they have lots of infections that could spread?

    There are a range of ailments that folks with CF have, its a big list and different folks can have different afflictions, as such carrying different risks, therefor mixing is best avoided. When my nephew went to crumlin to get a port under his arm when he was 7, the ward have 5 isolation rooms, for all kids with cf, only one could be out of a room at a time when doing stuff in that area.

    This can be everything from weight gain issues, eye problems to lack of development of sexual organs. A range of folks with cf are infertile as things like the vas deferns dont develop where fellas concerned.


  • #74
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    harr wrote: »
    Not 100% sure but I know the school had to send legal correspondence as this was the 3rd it 4th time said parents had sent child to school with nut products it seems they were giving the child the stuff to bring in .

    There is no legal basis for what you claimed sorry. P*ss poor behaviour on the parents behalf though.


  • #75
    ted1
    Registered Users Posts: 23,233 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    harr wrote: »
    I to have seen the affects of a selfish parent thinking the ban on nut products didn’t Apply To them. The child in question went to deaths door in a matter of minutes and this was only from minimal contact with someone who had been eating nuts. The teacher had an epi pen as did the child in her school bag. A very scary thing to see a child not being able to breathe.
    The other parent it turns out had been told a number of times and criminal proceedings were threatened in the end, this was after the school sent all parents a letter from crumlin hospital stating the severity of this child condition.

    Criminal proceedings being threatened means diddely squat. The op asked should a doctor note be produced, it’s a legitimate excuse. Loads of self diagnoses coeliacs out there , doing more damage to themselves.


  • #76
    super_furry
    Registered Users Posts: 27,319 ✭✭✭✭super_furry


    I mean the thing to take comfort in here is that the awkward contrarians banging on about their human rights to eat nuts wherever they want, are unlikely to ever have kids so it's not really going to be an issue.


  • #77
    ted1
    Registered Users Posts: 23,233 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    iamwhoiam wrote: »
    Do people not understand this . No one has died from not having nuts for lunch but kids have died because they are in close proximity to nuts
    Is that not very simple for people to get ?

    More people dies cussing the road this week than dies from nut allergies in the past 5 years. Should we ban crossing the road ?


  • #78
    looksee
    Registered Users Posts: 28,012 ✭✭✭✭looksee


    Current thinking seems to be that some allergies could be avoided by introducing trace amounts of doubtful food at an early stage. Some allergies/asthma are thought to be the result of excessive cleaning - for example using those anti-microbial cleaning cloths the whole time. Some food has changed in its nature - wheat for example.

    These examples do not cover all the possibilities. I have a granddaughter who is severely allergic to milk and even remotely associated products. There is some evidence of milk intolerance in the rest of the family - me, my son, his daughter, another of my daughters, my sister. In all other cases it is only an intolerance but in her case she has an allergic (though not potentially fatal) reaction. There is also a wheat intolerance in the same group.

    It isn't entirely understood why these allergies manifest themselves but it is not true to say that they were not known before. One diagnosis for early death used be 'failure to thrive' which could easily have been due to say coeliac disease, or a food intolerance or allergy. All kinds of allergies or sensitivities could have resulted in the 'village idiot' character, along with the effects of disease in pregnancy or birth that were not recognised at the time.

    I know someone else who has a serious reaction to chemicals - and the worst offenders are the overloads of perfume, body spray or after shave that people douse themselves with. If she is in a restaurant and someone strongly scented comes to a nearby table she simply has to leave. Friends are aware of the situation but beyond that it is impossible to deal with - even in prearranged situations people get surprisingly offended if requested to not wear perfume at an event. She is far from exceptional in this, but it is a situation that gets very little understanding.


  • #79
    CJhaughey
    Registered Users Posts: 14,906 ✭✭✭✭CJhaughey


    I have a son with a peanut allergy, not all nuts but specifically peanuts which are actually a legume.
    Its no joke, the two times he had a reaction were when he was only 2, I had made a peanut butter sandwich and left the knife on the cutting board and when my missus prepared some food she must have touched it, His entire face swelled up and became blotchy, fortunately it subsided after a while but obviously we were freaked out by this and ended up having to get private allergy testing in London because the waiting time here was I think a year at that point.
    When he was diagnosed it was a massive relief as up to then we had to be so careful with what we fed him due to our lack of knowledge of what triggered the attack.
    Allergies are no joke and to risk someones life due to an inability to understand the seriousness of the allergy is stupid and selfish in the extreme.
    Look up Amy May Shead and see what can happen to an allergy sufferer who has a reaction.
    Would you be so quick to risk this happening to someone else, because you have no understanding of Anaphylaxis?


  • #80
    Hego Damask
    Registered Users Posts: 842 ✭✭✭Hego Damask


    in creches and primary school yes, but in secondery and even primary from around age 10 - no.
    Where are all these nut alergies coming from ?

    They weren't around before


  • #81
    iamwhoiam
    Registered Users Posts: 16,069 ✭✭✭✭iamwhoiam


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    I believe your referring to the science which shows that exposing your baby to common allergens such as peanuts, at 6 months of age, reduces the risk of them developing an allergy.

    Six months!

    Exposing a school aged child to common allergens such as peanuts will not reduce their risk of having an allergy, as at that age the allergy will already be in existence so your only increasing the risk of illness or death.

    Maybe you need to read up on anaphylaxis. Speaking from experience, it is terrifying to have a family member with such an allergy. The smell alone can lead to death for some and as shown by Susie above, the mere touch can also be fatal. Even administering an epi-pen is not always effective. Its a scary way to live your life, particularly for a child and their parents.

    I had an anaphylaxis and am only alive because I live 10 minutes from a major hospital . It is terrifying , stressfull and very traumatising . I wouldn’t wish it on any child


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  • #82
    TheBoyConor
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,292 ✭✭✭TheBoyConor


    My god. All that is frightening reading. I can reassure myself that I'm choosing the right path by not having children. Between fatal allergies from the smell or touch of something to the devastating consequences of genetic faults or special needs, I really wouldn't want to be bringing that into my life. I'd not be able to deal with it and it wouldn't be fair on the hypothetical child either. Fair play to all those that can manage it.


  • #83
    v638sg7k1a92bx
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,913 ✭✭✭v638sg7k1a92bx


    rizzodun wrote: »
    Imagine being so far up your own hole to think that your preference for nuts is above someone who could have a fatal attack due to being allergic...

    Imagine a child having such a serious condition that as a parent you send them into a potentially lethal environment everyday and expect everyone to walk on egg shells and threaten legal proceedings if they don’t comply with your demands.

    Curious how this was not an issue until recent years.


  • #84
    ted1
    Registered Users Posts: 23,233 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    CJhaughey wrote: »
    I have a son with a peanut allergy, not all nuts but specifically peanuts which are actually a legume.
    Its no joke, the two times he had a reaction were when he was only 2, I had made a peanut butter sandwich and left the knife on the cutting board and when my missus prepared some food she must have touched it, His entire face swelled up and became blotchy, fortunately it subsided after a while but obviously we were freaked out by this and ended up having to get private allergy testing in London because the waiting time here was I think a year at that point.
    When he was diagnosed it was a massive relief as up to then we had to be so careful with what we fed him due to our lack of knowledge of what triggered the attack.
    Allergies are no joke and to risk someones life due to an inability to understand the seriousness of the allergy is stupid and selfish in the extreme.
    Look up Amy May Shead and see what can happen to an allergy sufferer who has a reaction.
    Would you be so quick to risk this happening to someone else, because you have no understanding of Anaphylaxis?

    Have you tested him recently, some of my family have allergies and I’ve had to use the Epi pen. Anyway some of them have grown out of it.


  • #85
    iamwhoiam
    Registered Users Posts: 16,069 ✭✭✭✭iamwhoiam


    Alexandria Quick Doughnut wrote: »
    Imagine a child having such a serious condition that as a parent you send them into a potentially lethal environment everyday and expect everyone to walk on egg shells and threaten legal proceedings if they don’t comply with your demands.

    Curious how this was not an issue until recent years.

    Grow up


  • #86
    CJhaughey
    Registered Users Posts: 14,906 ✭✭✭✭CJhaughey


    Alexandria Quick Doughnut wrote: »
    Imagine a child having such a serious condition that as a parent you send them into a potentially lethal environment everyday and expect everyone to walk on egg shells and threaten legal proceedings if they don’t comply with your demands.

    Curious how this was not an issue until recent years.

    Its not walking on eggshells, its simply asking parents to restrict nuts to their own home.

    As stated allergies worldwide are on the rise, Who knows why?

    I have no nut allergies my wife the same and my daughter likewise, why my son has it is a mystery to all of us.
    Regardless the point is we don't have peanuts in the house because of the potentially lethal consequences.
    I love peanuts but have restricted my intake to other nuts because of the issue, its no big deal for me but it is for my son.


  • #87
    Hego Damask
    Registered Users Posts: 842 ✭✭✭Hego Damask


    iamwhoiam wrote: »
    Grow up

    He's right though!

    And Jonathan Haidt is right too ...

    https://youtu.be/-iQmoe7Wygw

    All these alergies are from parents mollycoddling their kids.
    It's their fault they have the allergies, they should make sure the kids aren't exposed - not the school


  • #88
    CJhaughey
    Registered Users Posts: 14,906 ✭✭✭✭CJhaughey


    ted1 wrote: »
    Have you tested him recently, some of my family have allergies and I’ve had to use the Epi pen. Anyway some of them have grown out of it.

    He was part of a study group here which tracked kids from babies to young adults and is lead by one of the leading peanut allergy specialists in the world.
    He had a big reaction in the last challenge test and was told that he couldn't continue with the tests.
    He has to carry Epipens constantly, its a real pain but very necessary.


  • #89
    Irish Guitarist
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,736 ✭✭✭Irish Guitarist


    What percentage of children have nut allergies? Is there guaranteed to be at least one child with a nut allergy in every school?

    And if nut allergies are on the rise would that be due to emigration from countries where eating nuts is less common?

    https://news.sky.com/story/boys-death-from-allergic-reaction-after-cheese-hit-neck-unprecedented-11710285#
    Karanbir was also more likely to have had a severe reaction because he was male, of Asian origin, a teenager and suffered from hayfever.

    That's referring to cheese but the question still stands.


  • #90
    CJhaughey
    Registered Users Posts: 14,906 ✭✭✭✭CJhaughey


    Hego Damask wrote: »
    He's right though!

    And Jonathan Haidt is right too ...

    https://youtu.be/-iQmoe7Wygw

    All these alergies are from parents mollycoddling their kids.
    It's their fault they have the allergies, they should make sure the kids aren't exposed - not the school

    We never mollycoddled him, lived rurally with animals and in a normal non-sterile environment, why has he a Peanut allergy and not his sister?
    I am sure at some point there will be more light thrown on this subject but as for now we just have to be very careful.


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  • #91
    CJhaughey
    Registered Users Posts: 14,906 ✭✭✭✭CJhaughey


    Irish Guitarist wrote: »
    What percentage of children have nut allergies? Is there guaranteed to be at least one child with a nut allergy in every school?

    And if nut allergies are on the rise would that be due to emigration from countries where eating nuts is less common?

    https://news.sky.com/story/boys-death-from-allergic-reaction-after-cheese-hit-neck-unprecedented-11710285#



    That's referring to cheese but the question still stands.
    Most of Asia eat plenty of peanuts much more so than here in fact as they are grown there.
    Why people here develop allergies to them here is not clear.
    Little to do with emigration I would think.


This discussion has been closed.
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