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Colm O’Rourke’s article today

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    #152
    partyguinness
    Registered Users Posts: 8,207 ✭✭✭partyguinness


    MayoAreMagic wrote: »
    Re orourkes idea. It would never work because people still need to work. For example, say if a guy from kerry is working in dublin and gets drafted to leitrim, how the hell is he going to manage that one?


    and plus why would anyone want to play for different county...playing for your own county is what it is all about.

    Sure I know there has been examples of lads moving county but very very few and far between and usually a load of controversy with it.

    I mean really if you are a Kerry or Cork lad are you really want to go play for Monaghan or Antrim?


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    #153
    MayoAreMagic
    Registered Users Posts: 2,922 ✭✭✭MayoAreMagic


    partyguinness wrote: »
    and plus why would anyone want to play for different county...playing for your own county is what it is all about.

    Sure I know there has been examples of lads moving county but very very few and far between and usually a load of controversy with it.

    I mean really if you are a Kerry or Cork lad are you really want to go play for Monaghan or Antrim?

    The optimal version of the gaa would be to simply roll out the kerry model across every county that could employ it, offer amalgamation to those that couldnt, and split Dublin along the already existing, north and south divide. Much simpler, and most likely a better competition for everyone.


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    #154
    dunnerc
    Registered Users Posts: 1,337 ✭✭✭dunnerc


    MayoAreMagic wrote: »
    The optimal version of the gaa would be to simply roll out the kerry model across every county that could employ it, offer amalgamation to those that couldnt, and split Dublin along the already existing, north and south divide. Much simpler, and most likely a better competition for everyone.

    Eh no Dublin is not for splitting :rolleyes:


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    #155
    ShyMets
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,469 ✭✭✭ShyMets


    dunnerc wrote: »
    Eh no Dublin is not for splitting :rolleyes:

    Please. Lets not go there again:)


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    #156
    dunnerc
    Registered Users Posts: 1,337 ✭✭✭dunnerc


    ShyMets wrote: »
    Please. Lets not go there again:)

    I didn't bring it up again :)


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    #157
    The Lost Sheep
    Registered Users Posts: 14,967 ✭✭✭✭The Lost Sheep


    GreenandRed wrote: »
    Lads. I know you're on about part-time professionalism. How many intercounty footballers do you think would want to become full-time or part-time professional footballers and/or hurlers. It effectively makes GAA their job. Right now it's their passion, their hobby, their break from their jobs and great for their physical and mental health.

    I've seen GAA supporters on forums sneer about the money some professional soccer players get and some are on stupid money and some seem to put in little effort for it. But that's their market and they've earned because many backed themselves and their talented since they were 10 or younger. Unlike intercounty players they put any career opoortunities on hold and a small few of them were promising GAA underage talents. I know it's part-time professionalism up for discussion but how soon after that will agents and scouts go looking fir Tier 2 talent to poach them through family ties, work. studying to play for money for Tier 1 counties. And in 2030 will we have academies, like rugby, with kids who packed in their education to make football or hurling their future job?
    there isnt kids in the rugby academies who have packed in their education. All pro rugby players are encouraged to study be it a full time degree or evening classes. All will be studying in some form or another as irfu or players association will insist on it.
    Stacksofwacks wrote: »
    I think maybe a ten or 12 team football league might work on a professional basis. I don't think hurling is widely played by enough counties to make it a profitable proposition. Go semi pro in the football and leave the hurling strictly amateur for the time being until it gets more widely developed. Another possibility of what might happen eventually is the intercounty players break away(backed by businessmen) and form their own professional league. If this happens and a tv deal is already secured the its game over for amateurism. I don't really want to see it as the world is commercialised enough as it is, but its inevitable really.
    numbers supporting hurling at top level and TV numbers back up hurling beig pro. Look at Munster hurling attendances since change to round Robin. And there is little chance of hurling really properly developing much further beyond those that already play at the very top level.
    threeball wrote: »
    Probably the best thing that could happen to the GAA now is that the club's break away to take back the power and run the club competitions like they should be ran. The big wigs are destroying both the club and IC scene as it stands.
    how would that work? You are still talking about same players.
    Outside the main organisation clubs have even less power and cant do anything about it. Clubs can take back control within the GAA as it exists but need to be willing to properly shake things up but they havent been near like doing that for years
    bruschi wrote: »
    I dont think O'rourke is wrong, but I dont see it happening.

    If you were to start from scratch and have a national GAA competition, there is now way the format in place now (set up over 100 years ago) would be what is used for a championship structure. Its the most lobsided structure in terms of county set up and population, provincial set up. It makes little sense from a sporting competition layout to have it the way it currently is.

    Despite all the talk about Tayto crisps and Supermacs, the country is far, far too small demographically to sustain a professional set up for the current structure. 64 fully paid teams. Even allowing for Liam McCarthy only or tier 1 only in football, that is still 26 counties x panels of 30 plus. To have them as fully paid employees just wouldnt be sustainable.

    Talk of the GAA doing nothing is also seriously misguided. I've yet to see any amateur set up in any country that has its grassroots teams with resources such as what we have here. The GAA give massively back to the clubs. Yes there are issues over fixtures and there are certainly problems, but when the vast majority of the money earned goes back to the clubs and their infrastructure, I'm not sure I'd be first in line to be critical of the hierarchy.

    A 10 team competition in both codes is about the extent of what could be sustainable here without detrimental effect to clubs and grants/financial aid. There would be no reason that the county structure could not remain for underage set ups, similar to what still happens in AFL where clubs all stayed but their was a national competition formed with the grassroots clubs feeding into that then. Even at that, that is still 2 clubs more than what is in AFL, in a country that has its own subscription TV network (Foxtel) and 5 separate domestic FTA networks (ABC, SBS, 7, 9, 10), in a country with a population 4 times larger than Ireland. They have far more financial resources available to be able to sustain it, that I dont believe we have here.

    It will never happen though. The GAA is far more than just revenue or professionalism and the historical make up of it is as much a keystone of the organisation as anything else. If it were to happen, there would be many people enraged and disillusioned. however there also would be many people in favour in time and realising that it makes sense. I dont think such a move would kill things, I think it would work in time, however for reasons of historical and cultural identity and lack of financial resources to be able to provide full time professionals, I dont think it will be seen in our lifetime.
    considering how well some counties are supported with businesses assisting them and TV I think you most certainly could get more than 10 sides. There is many businesses people who help provide financial support to counties and pro players could happen in return for player being an ambassador for that business..
    MayoAreMagic wrote: »
    The optimal version of the gaa would be to simply roll out the kerry model across every county that could employ it, offer amalgamation to those that couldnt, and split Dublin along the already existing, north and south divide. Much simpler, and most likely a better competition for everyone.
    how exactly do you roll out this Kerry model everywhere else? It cant be simply what works in kerry would work elsewhere?


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    #158
    partyguinness
    Registered Users Posts: 8,207 ✭✭✭partyguinness


    Pardon my ignorance but what is the "Kerry Model"?


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    #159
    Pogue eile
    Registered Users Posts: 2,862 ✭✭✭Pogue eile


    MayoAreMagic wrote: »
    Sorry but this logic is completely flawed...
    Hurling had a higher average on your count because it had a fraction of the games. This is because you only counted the top tier. To get a true reflection and a fair comparison you need to add in all the tiers of the hurling championship. We both know what that would do to your average attendance figures...

    What you have done is the equivalent of a football fan only taking figures from the super 8s on and saying that is the average attendance for football.

    Logic indeed...

    Something is flawed alright but it isn't my logic, I took the top tier in both codes. The football championship is what is flawed not the logic!


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    #160
    MayoAreMagic
    Registered Users Posts: 2,922 ✭✭✭MayoAreMagic


    The Lost Sheep wrote: »
    how exactly do you roll out this Kerry model everywhere else? It cant be simply what works in kerry would work elsewhere?

    Well what I mean is, we hear about the dublin structures, and how dublin got their house in order and all the rest of it, and that everyone else needs to just follow suit. But when you actually consider that, it becomes apparent that there isnt another county that could physically roll out the dublin structures. They dont have the funds, they dont have the population etc. Its physically impossible. In fact, you would probably have to combine 6 or 7 counties to do so to the letter.
    However, kerry operate off a slightly above average population. They are a very rural county. And yet, they have dominated the game. So my point is, instead of aping the dublin structures - which frankly couldnt actually work for most counties anyway - what should be getting championed for the other counties is the kerry structures.
    At the end of the day, if kerry can reach those levels from an average starting point, then there is no reason why others cannot repeat the feat. That makes kerry, to my mind anyway, the optimal setup for gaelic football and therefore the setup we should look to develop around the country.

    As for people saying dublin isnt for splitting. You can get bogged down in my county v your county stuff, but the bigger picture at play is dublin are shooting fish in a barrel here, and there is a strong possibility that in a few years, splitting could well be a serious possibility. In its current guise it just doesnt seem sustainable.


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    #161
    MayoAreMagic
    Registered Users Posts: 2,922 ✭✭✭MayoAreMagic


    Pogue eile wrote: »
    Something is flawed alright but it isn't my logic, I took the top tier in both codes. The football championship is what is flawed not the logic!

    No its your logic, as I already explained to you. You cant compare both 'top tiers', because one of them is not actually tiered. What you have in fact done is use the tiered system in hurling to, rather handily, discount all the poorly attended games.
    What you need to do is pick the same number of top football matches as their are top tier hurling matches and compare the averages there. Otherwise it is just nonsense


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    #162
    Pogue eile
    Registered Users Posts: 2,862 ✭✭✭Pogue eile


    MayoAreMagic wrote: »
    Well what I mean is, we hear about the dublin structures, and how dublin got their house in order and all the rest of it, and that everyone else needs to just follow suit. But when you actually consider that, it becomes apparent that there isnt another county that could physically roll out the dublin structures. They dont have the funds, they dont have the population etc. Its physically impossible. In fact, you would probably have to combine 6 or 7 counties to do so to the letter.
    However, kerry operate off a slightly above average population. They are a very rural county. And yet, they have dominated the game. So my point is, instead of aping the dublin structures - which frankly couldnt actually work for most counties anyway - what should be getting championed for the other counties is the kerry structures.
    At the end of the day, if kerry can reach those levels from an average starting point, then there is no reason why others cannot repeat the feat. That makes kerry, to my mind anyway, the optimal setup for gaelic football and therefore the setup we should look to develop around the country.

    As for people saying dublin isnt for splitting. You can get bogged down in my county v your county stuff, but the bigger picture at play is dublin are shooting fish in a barrel here, and there is a strong possibility that in a few years, splitting could well be a serious possibility. In its current guise it just doesnt seem sustainable.

    Took you 160 posts to attempt to drag another thread into an anti Dublin thread, you're slipping boy!
    MayoAreMagic wrote: »
    Otherwise it is just nonsense

    Ah we agree on something!


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    #163
    MayoAreMagic
    Registered Users Posts: 2,922 ✭✭✭MayoAreMagic


    Pogue eile wrote: »
    Took you 160 posts to attempt to drag another thread into an anti Dublin thread, you're slipping boy!


    Ah we agree on something!

    Im not dragging it anywhere. Nor is it anti dublin, no more than it is anti any of the other counties that are not kerry. This thread is about change.

    Re your comparison of hurlingand football, I take it you have given up the ghost there.


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    #164
    dunnerc
    Registered Users Posts: 1,337 ✭✭✭dunnerc


    MayoAreMagic wrote: »
    Well what I mean is, we hear about the dublin structures, and how dublin got their house in order and all the rest of it, and that everyone else needs to just follow suit. But when you actually consider that, it becomes apparent that there isnt another county that could physically roll out the dublin structures. They dont have the funds, they dont have the population etc. Its physically impossible. In fact, you would probably have to combine 6 or 7 counties to do so to the letter.
    However, kerry operate off a slightly above average population. They are a very rural county. And yet, they have dominated the game. So my point is, instead of aping the dublin structures - which frankly couldnt actually work for most counties anyway - what should be getting championed for the other counties is the kerry structures.
    At the end of the day, if kerry can reach those levels from an average starting point, then there is no reason why others cannot repeat the feat. That makes kerry, to my mind anyway, the optimal setup for gaelic football and therefore the setup we should look to develop around the country.

    As for people saying dublin isnt for splitting. You can get bogged down in my county v your county stuff, but the bigger picture at play is dublin are shooting fish in a barrel here, and there is a strong possibility that in a few years, splitting could well be a serious possibility. In its current guise it just doesnt seem sustainable.

    Agreed you cant get bogged down in my county v your county stuff
    You however are most certainly bogged down with Dublin , your non stop like a broken down record .


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    #165
    dunnerc
    Registered Users Posts: 1,337 ✭✭✭dunnerc


    MayoAreMagic wrote: »
    Im not dragging it anywhere. Nor is it anti dublin, no more than it is anti any of the other counties that are not kerry. This thread is about change.

    Re your comparison of hurlingand football, I take it you have given up the ghost there.

    There is already a thread " Changes in the GAA Super Thread " :rolleyes:


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    #166
    Pogue eile
    Registered Users Posts: 2,862 ✭✭✭Pogue eile


    MayoAreMagic wrote: »
    Re your comparison of hurlingand football, I take it you have given up the ghost there.

    Not at all, but my origianl comment was merely a reply to the claim that ''Football is more widely played and attains greater attendances'' which I disagree with.

    But as it essientialy has feck all to do with this thread in the bigger sense of the topic being discussed I am letting it go in the interest of not dragging threads off topic.....you should give it a try ;)


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    #167
    dunnerc
    Registered Users Posts: 1,337 ✭✭✭dunnerc


    Pogue eile wrote: »
    Not at all, but my origianl comment was merely a reply to the claim that ''Football is more widely played and attains greater attendances'' which I disagree with.

    But as it essientialy has feck all to do with this thread in the bigger sense of the topic being discussed I am letting it go in the interest of not dragging threads off topic.....you should give it a try ;)

    And give up whinging about Dublin ? Not gonna happen ;)


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    #168
    Pogue eile
    Registered Users Posts: 2,862 ✭✭✭Pogue eile


    dunnerc wrote: »
    And give up whinging about Dublin ? Not gonna happen ;)

    I'm assuming from the username he is an adolescent and will eventually grow out of it, about 13 I would have guessed.


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    #169
    MayoAreMagic
    Registered Users Posts: 2,922 ✭✭✭MayoAreMagic


    Pogue eile wrote: »
    Not at all, but my origianl comment was merely a reply to the claim that ''Football is more widely played and attains greater attendances'' which I disagree with.

    But as it essientialy has feck all to do with this thread in the bigger sense of the topic being discussed I am letting it go in the interest of not dragging threads off topic.....you should give it a try ;)

    But the logic you used to disprove the point was totally flawed. Have you anything else ti support your view?

    O'rourke spoke about changing the teams from the county. People disagreed with it. I suggested keeping the county model up to the point of where the thing was completely out of kilter, ie where populations are ridiculously big or ridiculously small, and that this would be a model that would be taken to better by the masses, as well as probably being a better competition in general than orourkes suggestion.
    It isnt about dublin specifically no more than it is about leitrim specifically, or anyone else. The likes of yourself will try to shout it down, but it cannot be denied that it is a reasonable discussion.


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    #170
    Pogue eile
    Registered Users Posts: 2,862 ✭✭✭Pogue eile


    MayoAreMagic wrote: »
    But the logic you used to disprove the point was totally flawed. Have you anything else ti support your view?

    O'rourke spoke about changing the teams from the county. People disagreed with it. I suggested keeping the county model up to the point of where the thing was completely out of kilter, ie where populations are ridiculously big or ridiculously small, and that this would be a model that would be taken to better by the masses, as well as probably being a better competition in general than orourkes suggestion.
    It isnt about dublin specifically no more than it is about leitrim specifically, or anyone else. The likes of yourself will try to shout it down, but it cannot be denied that it is a reasonable discussion.

    I haven't tried to shout it down at all :confused:, and I will have a reasonable discussion with any reasonable person as it goes.


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    #171
    dunnerc
    Registered Users Posts: 1,337 ✭✭✭dunnerc


    MayoAreMagic wrote: »
    But the logic you used to disprove the point was totally flawed. Have you anything else ti support your view?

    O'rourke spoke about changing the teams from the county. People disagreed with it. I suggested keeping the county model up to the point of where the thing was completely out of kilter, ie where populations are ridiculously big or ridiculously small, and that this would be a model that would be taken to better by the masses, as well as probably being a better competition in general than orourkes suggestion.
    It isnt about dublin specifically no more than it is about leitrim specifically, or anyone else. The likes of yourself will try to shout it down, but it cannot be denied that it is a reasonable discussion.

    It cannot be denied that the likes of yourself will drag Dublin into any reasonable discussion on any GAA Thread :rolleyes:


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    #172
    MayoAreMagic
    Registered Users Posts: 2,922 ✭✭✭MayoAreMagic


    dunnerc wrote: »
    It cannot be denied that the likes of yourself will drag Dublin into any reasonable discussion on any GAA Thread :rolleyes:

    You do realise that o'rourke himself in the article references 2 or even 3 dublin teams?


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    #173
    dunnerc
    Registered Users Posts: 1,337 ✭✭✭dunnerc


    MayoAreMagic wrote: »
    You do realise that o'rourke himself in the article references 2 or even 3 dublin teams?

    No I never realised that :rolleyes:


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    #174
    rebel girl 15
    Registered Users, Moderators, Education Moderators, Sports Moderators, Regional South Moderators Posts: 15,247 Mod ✭✭✭✭rebel girl 15


    To be honest, the thread needs to be continued in the change to GAA thread, as that is what is it actually discussing, and one thread on that topic is enough

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057890333&page=56


This discussion has been closed.
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