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Did I over-do the compost?

  • 25-07-2020 3:27pm
    #1
    flogen
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 10,243 Mod ✭✭✭✭


    Long story short, got a variety of climbers and boxes to plant them in... planted them Wednesday and a few of them are already looking a bit sad.

    They were well-watered and there’s been a decent bit of rain too so doubt that’s the issue... worried if I over-composted the pots.

    Here’s one of the Hydrangeas.

    Should I be worried? Or is it just something that can happen when moving to a new home?

    If the compost is an issue can I save them by digging a good bit of it out and replacing it with regular soil?

    Cheers


Comments

  • #2
    Garlinge
    Registered Users Posts: 591 ✭✭✭Garlinge


    Give them a chance to settle down! If the compost is just peat moss, it might well to mix in some soil at a later date even some grit to top with to save stuff blowing away, drying out too quickly. That photo looks like a wisteria and not a hydrangea. If the containers are up close to a wall they may get precious little rain water, so you will need to water well once a week.


  • #3
    flogen
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 10,243 Mod ✭✭✭✭flogen


    Garlinge wrote: »
    Give them a chance to settle down! If the compost is just peat moss, it might well to mix in some soil at a later date even some grit to top with to save stuff blowing away, drying out too quickly. That photo looks like a wisteria and not a hydrangea. If the containers are up close to a wall they may get precious little rain water, so you will need to water well once a week.

    You’re right - it’s wisteria, not a hydrangea!

    And thanks - I’m just a bit anxious that it’ll all come on alright. Will give it some time - fairly sure it’s gotten plenty of rain despite the wall but will keep watering it too just in case


  • #4
    Garlinge
    Registered Users Posts: 591 ✭✭✭Garlinge


    I dont think wisteria is suitable for a small container. They can grow huge in suitable location but mayb take up to 7 years to flower so maybe think of moving it to somewhere where it can rampage.


  • #5
    GinSoaked
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,049 ✭✭✭GinSoaked


    When you put plants in pots you limit the amount of drainage that can be provided, meaning its easier to over water a plant in a pot than in open ground.

    A plant can only benefit directly and make use of water from the compost next to its roots.

    So if you put a plant into a much bigger pot with a lot of fresh compost it becomes and easy target for overwatering. The new compost can hold water and water log the whole pot and your plant.

    Ideally only go up a pot size of no more than an inch.


  • #6
    looksee
    Registered Users Posts: 28,018 ✭✭✭✭looksee


    Neither hydrangea nor wisteria are suitable for pots, both will need to be in the ground within a season or two. All compost is not the best for pots either as it dries out to a hard block then is impossible to wet again, its ok for seedlings and getting plants going but for long term planting you need some soil mixed in.


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  • #7
    flogen
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 10,243 Mod ✭✭✭✭flogen


    looksee wrote: »
    Neither hydrangea nor wisteria are suitable for pots, both will need to be in the ground within a season or two. All compost is not the best for pots either as it dries out to a hard block then is impossible to wet again, its ok for seedlings and getting plants going but for long term planting you need some soil mixed in.

    Ugh. Glad I went to a garden centre and sought advice about the best climbers for pots, so.

    It’s a ~3ft long pot (there’s a second climber at the other end) and I’m aiming for the climbers I’ve planted to cover roughly 6ftx2-3ft of wall.

    So am I wasting my time?


  • #8
    looksee
    Registered Users Posts: 28,018 ✭✭✭✭looksee


    I have heard tales of people who have managed to grow 8ft honeysuckles from a medium sized pot. I have never found it works out that well. They will stay alive, and occasionally you get one doing really well - I have a very large pieris growing in a large pot (about 2'6" high and wide) and it seems perfectly happy, but usually they just sit there till I take pity on them and plant them in the garden.

    A 3ft long pot would be what, 12 inches deep, and maybe 12 - 14 inches across? What climbers have you in it?

    Edit, is that a climbing hydrangea and a wisteria in a 3' trough? Both get massive root systems.


  • #9
    flogen
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 10,243 Mod ✭✭✭✭flogen


    looksee wrote: »
    I have heard tales of people who have managed to grow 8ft honeysuckles from a medium sized pot. I have never found it works out that well. They will stay alive, and occasionally you get one doing really well - I have a very large pieris growing in a large pot (about 2'6" high and wide) and it seems perfectly happy, but usually they just sit there till I take pity on them and plant them in the garden.

    A 3ft long pot would be what, 12 inches deep, and maybe 12 - 14 inches across? What climbers have you in it?

    Edit, is that a climbing hydrangea and a wisteria in a 3' trough? Both get massive root systems.

    No - was mixing up my plants, have a small hydrangea elsewhere.

    In this pot is a wisteria and jasmine - another has a wisteria and a Glasnevin. For the sake of completeness, a third pot has a jasmine and a clematis.


  • #10
    looksee
    Registered Users Posts: 28,018 ✭✭✭✭looksee


    That is a lovely selection of climbers and if you could put them in the garden, or even a good sized raised bed or very large pot, they could be amazing. However the person that told you they are suitable for smallish troughs is just plain wrong. They are all big plants. Soalnum Glasnevin is a very vigorous plant that can quickly grow huge - a neighbour had to take one out of a large raised bed and give it to a friend as it just overwhelmed it.

    With the exception of the clematis (and I am not sure about the Jasmine, depends on variety) they are all plants with potentially large, vigorous roots and while they might stay alive in a trough they will not achieve anything like what they should. And sadly the clematis is not suitable for different reasons - it likes its roots to be cool, it is usually suggested that it be planted so that the roots are in shade under a slab, while the top grows into sun.

    I realise you have made quite an investment with all this, and I would be glad to hear other people's opinions, then maybe you should be talking to the garden centre.


  • #11
    flogen
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 10,243 Mod ✭✭✭✭flogen


    looksee wrote: »
    That is a lovely selection of climbers and if you could put them in the garden, or even a good sized raised bed or very large pot, they could be amazing. However the person that told you they are suitable for smallish troughs is just plain wrong. They are all big plants. Soalnum Glasnevin is a very vigorous plant that can quickly grow huge - a neighbour had to take one out of a large raised bed and give it to a friend as it just overwhelmed it.

    With the exception of the clematis (and I am not sure about the Jasmine, depends on variety) they are all plants with potentially large, vigorous roots and while they might stay alive in a trough they will not achieve anything like what they should. And sadly the clematis is not suitable for different reasons - it likes its roots to be cool, it is usually suggested that it be planted so that the roots are in shade under a slab, while the top grows into sun.

    I realise you have made quite an investment with all this, and I would be glad to hear other people's opinions, then maybe you should be talking to the garden centre.

    Thanks for your help... really hope you’re wrong or there’s some hope though!

    So frustrating - I purposely went to a supposedly good garden centre, told them what I wanted to cover, that the area had good sun etc. Even bought the pots there so they knew what I was planting them in.

    I wanted to avoid just randomly picking climbers in the local Woodies but from what you’re saying I’d have been as well off.


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  • #12
    standardg60
    Registered Users Posts: 4,214 ✭✭✭standardg60


    looksee wrote: »
    That is a lovely selection of climbers and if you could put them in the garden, or even a good sized raised bed or very large pot, they could be amazing. However the person that told you they are suitable for smallish troughs is just plain wrong. They are all big plants. Soalnum Glasnevin is a very vigorous plant that can quickly grow huge - a neighbour had to take one out of a large raised bed and give it to a friend as it just overwhelmed it.

    With the exception of the clematis (and I am not sure about the Jasmine, depends on variety) they are all plants with potentially large, vigorous roots and while they might stay alive in a trough they will not achieve anything like what they should. And sadly the clematis is not suitable for different reasons - it likes its roots to be cool, it is usually suggested that it be planted so that the roots are in shade under a slab, while the top grows into sun.

    I realise you have made quite an investment with all this, and I would be glad to hear other people's opinions, then maybe you should be talking to the garden centre.

    My thoughts exactly.
    Really didn't want to be the first bearer of bad news when i first read this thread. All of those climbers need to be planted in the ground or they'll achieve nothing.
    I'm sorry i missed your previous thread on the subject or i'd advised same.


  • #13
    flogen
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 10,243 Mod ✭✭✭✭flogen


    Thanks for your honesty. I suppose I’ll see if I have a home for some of them elsewhere - I’ve limited space to plant in the ground and a lot has already been taken up by other plants (mainly stuff I bought alongside the climbers).

    Any recommendations for what can go in the pots would be very welcome.

    Ideally plants that are fast-growing (each pot to cover a fence panel roughly 6ftx5ft), offering plenty of colour for as much of the year as possible... and cheap!


  • #14
    phormium
    Registered Users Posts: 3,290 ✭✭✭phormium


    I tried wisteria in a pot and it was a very big pot in a lovely sunny corner, was there for several years, never came to anything and eventually was so scraggy I just got rid of it.


  • #15
    Garlinge
    Registered Users Posts: 591 ✭✭✭Garlinge


    Wisteria will eventually have a huge rootsystem. I was given two as wedding presents but it took me an extra year to decide where to put a second. That one should have been the more vigorous one but it was very slow to get going and took up to 7 yrs for first flowers to come. I think it was 'potbound' being too long in the pot and I should have teased out the roots when planting.


  • #16
    flogen
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 10,243 Mod ✭✭✭✭flogen


    I moved one of the wisterias as it was looking particularly sad. Still trying to figure out what to do with the others - and what to plant in the boxes once they’re all clear.


  • #17
    standardg60
    Registered Users Posts: 4,214 ✭✭✭standardg60


    flogen wrote: »
    I moved one of the wisterias as it was looking particularly sad. Still trying to figure out what to do with the others - and what to plant in the boxes once they’re all clear.

    You may have misunderstood the advice. All and any climbers should be planted in the ground wherever you want to cover walls or fences. The boxes are really only suitable for temporary or dwarf planting.


  • #18
    Garlinge
    Registered Users Posts: 591 ✭✭✭Garlinge


    We are officially in the autumn season so your wisteria will naturally be looking less than best as it prepares for winter.


  • #19
    flogen
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 10,243 Mod ✭✭✭✭flogen


    standardg60 wrote: »
    You may have misunderstood the advice. All and any climbers should be planted in the ground wherever you want to cover walls or fences. The boxes are really only suitable for temporary or dwarf planting.

    No - I moved it to another spot that I’m happy to see covered by a climber.

    I’ll have to find something more suitable for the wall with the pots


  • #20
    flogen
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 10,243 Mod ✭✭✭✭flogen


    Garlinge wrote: »
    We are officially in the autumn season so your wisteria will naturally be looking less than best as it prepares for winter.

    True.

    Generally speaking am I better leaving the rest where it is or rehoming it asap?


  • #21
    looksee
    Registered Users Posts: 28,018 ✭✭✭✭looksee


    Rehome them as the autumn comes along. Unless there is a prolonged dry spell they will not come to much harm for a couple of months.

    Your boxes would be better used for 'annual' type planting. Anything that is going to produce a lot of extensive top growth, like climbers, needs more space for the matching root system, as we have discussed. You could get a bit of height with maybe some grasses in your troughs, but mostly plant things like violas and cyclamen for the autumn and into the winter, some smaller bulbs for next spring (daffs would grow but they make a lot of untidy leaf growth that lasts ages). Remove the violas in due course and let the bulbs flower, maybe add a few primulas, then follow up with summer bedding.

    I don't recommend those huge flowered primulas you see making a spectacular show in supermarkets; the first bit of rain or wind will knock the flowers about and they will look pathetic. Buy the ordinary small flowered primulas in garden centres, they are much more reliable.


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  • #22
    flogen
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 10,243 Mod ✭✭✭✭flogen


    looksee wrote: »
    Rehome them as the autumn comes along. Unless there is a prolonged dry spell they will not come to much harm for a couple of months.

    Great, thanks
    Your boxes would be better used for 'annual' type planting. Anything that is going to produce a lot of extensive top growth, like climbers, needs more space for the matching root system, as we have discussed. You could get a bit of height with maybe some grasses in your troughs, but mostly plant things like violas and cyclamen for the autumn and into the winter, some smaller bulbs for next spring (daffs would grow but they make a lot of untidy leaf growth that lasts ages). Remove the violas in due course and let the bulbs flower, maybe add a few primulas, then follow up with summer bedding.

    Thanks for that. I’ve resigned myself to the fact that I won’t have my ugly fencing completely obscured (not by climbers, anyway) but hoping I can find some things to cover at least *some* of it... grasses might not be a bad idea. If there are any big plants / small shrubs that would even give me 2-3ft of height that would be okay too.

    Might look at a few annual plants as you suggest too - just to add a bit of colour and take the bare look off what’s behind it.


  • #23
    CelticRambler
    Registered Users Posts: 6,695 ✭✭✭CelticRambler


    You know those vigorous root systems? There's something to be said for keeping them contained! I have a Wisteria that was transplanted from one part of the garden and "less than ideal" conditions to another about 10 years ago. It's now a b s o l u t e l y m a s s i v e ... which is OK for me, because I have a lot of wall/courtyard/footpath to cover, but would totally overwhelm my parents' or my siblings' gardens; and it needs aggressive pruning every year to keep in check. Oh, and it leaves a ton of flower petals on the ground after flowering, twice a year.

    The Wisteria totally dominates the jasmine planted about 5m away from it, but that too is pretty vigorous, invading the old chicken shed against which it's growing. I'm in my third year of trying to selectively prune the Wisteria to let the jasmine get a look in, while also trying to keep the jasmine under control.

    After that experience - and because neither of them want anything to do with the other two walls in the courtyard - earlier this year I bought a passion flower and a trumpet flower. 30cm high at purchase, repotted immediately into deep 25cm pots and they're each about 2m high now (the passion flower is flowering). Although I will eventually put them into the ground, that probably won't be for at least another two or three years - the time it takes me to decide exactly where I want them situated so that I can best train the vines afterwards.

    There's no reason you can't have a vigorous climber in a pot/trough as long as you accept that you'll have to look after it (feed/water) a lot more than a ground-growing one ... but you might "win" later on by having to prune it less.


  • #24
    flogen
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 10,243 Mod ✭✭✭✭flogen


    CelticRambler wrote: »
    You know those vigorous root systems? There's something to be said for keeping them contained! I have a Wisteria that was transplanted from one part of the garden and "less than ideal" conditions to another about 10 years ago. It's now a b s o l u t e l y m a s s i v e ... which is OK for me, because I have a lot of wall/courtyard/footpath to cover, but would totally overwhelm my parents' or my siblings' gardens; and it needs aggressive pruning every year to keep in check. Oh, and it leaves a ton of flower petals on the ground after flowering, twice a year.

    The Wisteria totally dominates the jasmine planted about 5m away from it, but that too is pretty vigorous, invading the old chicken shed against which it's growing. I'm in my third year of trying to selectively prune the Wisteria to let the jasmine get a look in, while also trying to keep the jasmine under control.

    After that experience - and because neither of them want anything to do with the other two walls in the courtyard - earlier this year I bought a passion flower and a trumpet flower. 30cm high at purchase, repotted immediately into deep 25cm pots and they're each about 2m high now (the passion flower is flowering). Although I will eventually put them into the ground, that probably won't be for at least another two or three years - the time it takes me to decide exactly where I want them situated so that I can best train the vines afterwards.

    Ha, Maybe you’re right... and now you’re starting to make me doubt my decision to move one of the wisterias to a separate area of bedding...!

    I wouldn’t mind, but there’s a spot of bedding to the right of the horrible fencing that, in hindsight, would have been perfect for what a wisteria seems to like to do... I maybe could have trained it across the top of the fencing or something like that.

    However earlier this year I used that spot to plant a climbing rose. It’s doing quite well, so I don’t want to touch it, but I don’t expect it’ll give me nearly the same level of coverage when all is said and done.
    There's no reason you can't have a vigorous climber in a pot/trough as long as you accept that you'll have to look after it (feed/water) a lot more than a ground-growing one ... but you might "win" later on by having to prune it less.

    That doesn’t bother me too much - once I know the best way of looking after it all.


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