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Is this the future for renewable energy generation

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  • #2
    Down South
    Registered Users Posts: 333 ✭✭Down South


    bob mcbob wrote:
    On Orkney they are putting a trial in place that links energy demand, supply and storage via a smart grid trial. Even the batteries on EVs will be used to meet demand during peak time.

    Cork co Solo Energy involved


  • #3
    Graces7
    Registered Users Posts: 32,634 ✭✭✭✭Graces7


    The small outer north orkney island I lived many years on already had a few wind turbines when i was there . http://www.surfnturf.org.uk/page/renewables

    The tides they write of used to prevent ships getting us home. every island pensioner was given a small windmill generator

    This surely is the way forward with the winds we get here : I am west coast offshore.

    Is there not already a windfarm being created off Belmullet?e


  • #4
    Ubbquittious
    Registered Users Posts: 6,177 ✭✭✭Ubbquittious


    I dunno about this carry on using EV batteries to help the grid along. EV batteries are pretty much non recyclable at the moment and people should be trying to preserve them as long as possible. Maybe it will be worth doing if they move away from Lithium ion to something more durable


  • #5
    Capt'n Midnight
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 90,656 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    I'd need to see real numbers on using EV batteries.


    http://lg.sem-o.com/Pages/default.aspx
    Today's price was between €60 to €100 per MWh
    ie. 6c to 10c a Unit but the 10c price was during peak demand when people come home from work and presumably charge the car.

    The other peak price was when people started work in the morning, again I'd imagine they'd be charging then too.

    But if we pretend that people who have just finished driving are OK with the grid draining their batteries. Then you have a max differential of 4c in the price of a unit. A Leaf has a 40KWh battery so could hold €1.60 of electricity, not including energy conversion losses. Add in the reduced demand with so may EV's chasing that fee, and it's probably only a euro worth. And there's the depreciation on the batteries as they have finite life cycles and cost thousands to replace.

    It's just a subsidy for battery makers.

    Using car batteries to charge other car batteries over the grid at peak demand is a waste of energy, ie charging low batteries after the commute.


    Load shedding would be a much cheaper way of doing the same thing.
    Smart storage and water heaters. Pumped storage. Water pumps.


  • #6
    Capt'n Midnight
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 90,656 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    Ubbquittious wrote: »
    I dunno about this carry on using EV batteries to help the grid along. EV batteries are pretty much non recyclable at the moment and people should be trying to preserve them as long as possible. Maybe it will be worth doing if they move away from Lithium ion to something more durable
    Lithium is light. Lead is heavy. It's that simple.
    Super duper capacitors would be nice but don't hold your breath.

    Aluminium-Air might be possible but that means shipping the aluminium oxide back to Iceland to use hydro electric to convert it back to the metal.


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  • #7
    ednwireland
    Registered Users Posts: 14,267 ✭✭✭✭ednwireland


    you do know that the esb is putting in planning for large battery storage areas around the country. this one i beleive has been granted planning now near carrick on shannon.

    https://www.shannonside.ie/news/local/leitrim/public-concerns-leitrim-proposed-battery-facility-flagford/

    its controversial as its on a flood plain (and the loacals dont like the idea of 30 40 foot containers)

    My weather

    https://www.ecowitt.net/home/share?authorize=96CT1F



  • #8
    rolion
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,362 ✭✭✭rolion


    ednwireland wrote: »
    you do know that the esb is putting in planning for large battery storage areas around the country. this one i beleive has been granted planning now near carrick on shannon.

    https://www.shannonside.ie/news/local/leitrim/public-concerns-leitrim-proposed-battery-facility-flagford/

    its controversial as its on a flood plain (and the loacals dont like the idea of 30 40 foot containers)

    That news is March 2018.
    Couldn't find anything more recent....can you help ?


  • #9
    ednwireland
    Registered Users Posts: 14,267 ✭✭✭✭ednwireland


    rolion wrote: »
    That news is March 2018.
    Couldn't find anything more recent....can you help ?

    https://www.shannonside.ie/news/local/longford/longford-battery-storage-facility-granted-planning-permission-bord-pleanala/

    or you could read the facebook opage of the people opposing it (once your through the phone and laptop fire scare stories)
    https://www.facebook.com/pg/STOP-Carrick-Monster-Battery-Storage-Facility-1463305897274098/posts/

    My weather

    https://www.ecowitt.net/home/share?authorize=96CT1F



  • #10
    ted1
    Registered Users Posts: 23,231 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    ednwireland wrote: »
    you do know that the esb is putting in planning for large battery storage areas around the country. this one i beleive has been granted planning now near carrick on shannon.

    https://www.shannonside.ie/news/local/leitrim/public-concerns-leitrim-proposed-battery-facility-flagford/

    its controversial as its on a flood plain (and the loacals dont like the idea of 30 40 foot containers)
    Are you sure that’s the ESB? Isn’t it a private company ?


  • #11
    ednwireland
    Registered Users Posts: 14,267 ✭✭✭✭ednwireland


    ted1 wrote: »
    Are you sure that’s the ESB? Isn’t it a private company ?

    yes it does look like a private company but nevertheles - large battery storage units are planned linked to the grid

    My weather

    https://www.ecowitt.net/home/share?authorize=96CT1F



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  • #12
    bob mcbob
    Registered Users Posts: 971 ✭✭✭bob mcbob


    ednwireland wrote: »
    yes it does look like a private company but nevertheles - large battery storage units are planned linked to the grid

    This one opened in Scotland last year

    https://environmentjournal.online/articles/20mw-battery-storage-facility-opens-in-scotland/


  • #13
    unkel
    Registered Users Posts: 64,685 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    Ubbquittious wrote: »
    EV batteries are pretty much non recyclable at the moment

    You couldn't be further from the truth. EV batteries are 100% recycled and retain a ridiculously high value. People want them to build home powerwalls, convert cars to EV, etc.

    This is one of the better deals, a Tesla battery. Second hand, 3 years old. Not much change from twenty grand

    Linky


  • #14
    Capt'n Midnight
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 90,656 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    unkel wrote: »
    This is one of the better deals, a Tesla battery. Second hand, 3 years old. Not much change from twenty grand
    90kWh so it could store 90 units when new and it will lose capacity over time



    If you have your own wind turbine and it's saving you 20c per unit (€18 full charge in theory) as well as the ESB standing charges and rural connection fees and grid independence is worth it to you then maybe.


    If you are in the wholesale market and storing grid electricity when it's 4c and selling 90% of it (conversion losses) back at 7c then that twenty grand battery is only worth €2 a charge.

    You can play with the numbers but expect the rules to change during the payback time. Really you are depending on payments for being a standby source and there'll be more competition there in future.


  • #15
    Ubbquittious
    Registered Users Posts: 6,177 ✭✭✭Ubbquittious


    unkel wrote: »
    You couldn't be further from the truth. EV batteries are 100% recycled and retain a ridiculously high value. People want them to build home powerwalls, convert cars to EV, etc.

    This is one of the better deals, a Tesla battery. Second hand, 3 years old. Not much change from twenty grand

    Linky


    That one is still good, but when all the cells are shagged they will only be downcycled into pots and pans. If I was dropping 20 g's on one the last thing I'd be doing with it is needlessly wasting it's cycles so some feicer down the road can leave their immersion switched on


  • #16
    unkel
    Registered Users Posts: 64,685 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    I think you guys are missing my point. That second hand battery is far too expensive in my view. Because so many people are using them, the prices have gone through the roof. Car dismantlers know the value of these. This proves that all EV batteries are 100% recycled.
    Ubbquittious wrote: »
    That one is still good, but when all the cells are shagged they will only be downcycled into pots and pans.

    The cells don't get "shagged". Cells in EV batteries are carefully managed by the BMS. 7 year old Tesla batteries have on average still over 90% capacity. A lithium battery lasts 100 years and still have some capacity when treated well.


  • #17
    BarryD2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,732 ✭✭✭BarryD2


    Re OP, EVs surely are well suited to island environments as you'll hardly experience much range anxiety.


  • #18
    Water John
    Registered Users Posts: 21,103 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    According to Solar Power Portal a 100Mw battery storage plant has been energised at Lumcloon, Co. Offaly.


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