Manager wants me gone

Cilantro2000 · 09-08-2018 9:41am #1

My manager recently told me that he thinks I'm underperforming and doesn't think I'm a right fit for the role. He said "off the record" that it might be a good idea to look for a job elsewhere, otherwise he'll have to go down the HR route. I'm in the job jist over a year, would just like to get other people's thoughts on this.

Mr. Incognito · 09-08-2018 9:42am

Do you feel they are correct?

Cilantro2000 · 09-08-2018 9:46am

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

Do you feel they are correct?

Now that he actually discussed what he expects from me I can agree that I wasn't meeting those expectations, but he never had that discussion before, given I passed my probabation period I assumed I was more or less on track. I think I can meet those expecations and am closer to them now since we had our discussion. I'm through to the 2nd round interview somewhere else so hopefully I get an offer as don't fancy playing the pip game.

Wanderer78 · 09-08-2018 9:49am

Unfair dismissal could be an interesting journey in life, but do you really wanna go down that road?

Cilantro2000 · 09-08-2018 9:53am

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Unfair dismissal could be an interesting journey in life, but do you really wanna go down that road?

I wouldn't want to go down any road that involves a disruption to my monthly wages as have a mortgage and two kids.

Wanderer78 · 09-08-2018 9:56am

Cilantro2000 wrote:

I wouldn't want to go down any road that involves a disruption to my monthly wages as have a mortgage and two kids.

'increasing worker insecurity' at it's finest! Completely understand where you're coming from, you sound very deflated, I'd imagine you're doing the best you can in all circumstances. Is your manager approachable, are they reasonable?

Cilantro2000 · 09-08-2018 10:01am

Wanderer78 wrote: »

'increasing worker insecurity' at it's finest! Completely understand where you're coming from, you sound very deflated, I'd imagine you're doing the best you can in all circumstances. Is your manager approachable, are they reasonable?

He seems to have made up his mind that I won't be able to meet these expectations, I think I can, but leaning towards just leaving now regardless as damage is done.

Wanderer78 · 09-08-2018 10:04am

Cilantro2000 wrote:

He seems to have made up his mind that I won't be able to meet these expectations, I think I can, but leaning towards just leaving now regardless as damage is done.

There's no harm in looking at your options outside of this business, but don't be pushed over either, doesn't particularly sound like the nicest working environment though

Cocobeans101 · 09-08-2018 10:32am

I think move on. Very demoralising working for someone who won't give you a chance. If you aren't hurting your career by leaving, then I would go.

Best of luck

skallywag · 09-08-2018 10:46am

Your manager has handled this very badly.

Yes, it often happens that a team member may not be meeting expectation, but any competent manager is going to have a sit down with the employee and point this out, before coming to the stage that you are advising them to look elsewhere. I have seen many cases where a team member has taken such criticism in a positive way and acted on it, with some going on to really star in the role.

If your short to mid term future is reporting into this same manager then I would certainly look elsewhere.

punisher5112 · 09-08-2018 10:50am

I would be putting in a complaint to hr and keep records of all correspondence.

Do not let this Wiesel walk all over you.

Have had similar and they have tried to push me out but never succeeded.
I do my job and all I'm asked to do by the way.

Try and see are others under similar pressure or have had a similar experience without name dropping or giving all the details.

gauralordon · 09-08-2018 11:00am

Very sorry to hear this is happening to you. Highly unusual that your employer would let you pass your probation period without pulling you up on things they now feel you're not up to standards on. I worked in HR and it was always drilled into us to monitor probation staff, and extend or get rid in first 6 months if they're not performing. Highly unusual also that your manager would just seemingly casually tell you they're trying to get rid of you and not offer you help, re-training, etc...

Nevertheless, I'd be inclined to now do the bare minimum work wise, look for something new, and try to get out before they let you go. Always better to leave on your terms rather than theirs.

If it really means a lot to you that your manager basically up and told you they're looking to push you out the door, I'd be advising you to weigh up the pros and cons of pursuing a complaint etc. Is the pay off worth the hassle and stress? Do you see yourself working for this company for a substantial amount of time and do you really want to stay knowing they wanted to get rid of you in the first place? It's almost always an unspoken feeling, but if you pursue a complaint, and end up staying on, your employer resents you for the hassle caused by dealing with the complaint. Trust me, I've seen the ugly side of employee-employer relations first hand.

Whatever you decide to do, always keep in mind that this company would replace you in a heartbeat regardless of whether they let you go, or you leave on your own terms.

Wishing you all the best ☺

gozunda · 09-08-2018 11:17am

Firstly your 'manager' for want of a better description is way out of line imo.

The managers behaviour is extremely stupid and is effectively pushing a constructive dismissal type agenda - all against current employment law. By pushing you out - he is also attempting to circumvent having to pay you any monies you would recieve if your employer was to legally lay you off.

The manager has apparently failed to provide any opportunity for improvement via a normal review process.

A question - what is this manager like to work with? And more importantly what is the company like in relation to dealing with workplace issues? This should help you decide what you need to do next.

Whatever you decide to do - The manager needs to be reported for inappropriate behaviour.

If you do leave I would ask for an exit interview - and use that give the company the full details of your managers behaviour and your reason for leaving.

Best of luck in whatever you decide to do.

uck51js9zml2yt · 09-08-2018 11:36am

gozunda wrote: »

Firstly your 'manager' for want of a better description is way out of line imo.

The managers behaviour is extremely stupid and is effectively pushing a constructive dismissal type agenda - all against current employment law. By pushing you out - he is also attempting to circumvent having to pay you any monies you would recieve if your employer was to legally lay you off.

The manager has apparently failed to provide any opportunity for improvement via a normal review process.

A question - what is this manager like to work with? And more importantly what is the company like in relation to dealing with workplace issues? This should help you decide what you need to do next.

Whatever you decide to do - The manager needs to be reported for inappropriate behaviour.

If you do leave I would ask for an exit interview - and use that give the company the full details of your managers behaviour and your reason for leaving.

Best of luck in whatever you decide to do.

He'd have nothing If laid off other than outstanding pay and holidays.

gozunda · 09-08-2018 11:45am

Leanna Calm Scar wrote: »

He'd have nothing If laid off other than outstanding pay and holidays.

Redundancy money if he is being left go as described. Not probably much but all the same the manager seems to want to go down the stupid route and risk a complaint about his behaviour and in a worse case scenario - The matter being investigated and ruled on externally...

Fairly typical bulky boy / head in the sand type of stupid management practices engaged in this country ime

sillysmiles · 09-08-2018 11:45am

Can you call a meeting with you manager and discuss it again - that you've thought about what s/he said and agree that you weren't meeting that standard, but weren't aware that was what was expected but that you are happy to work towards what is expected, and that'd you'd appreciate their feedback on your improved performance. Document what they said the problem was. Document what you've done to resolve the problem. Document the results of your meeting.

In the background, be looking for another role.

OldMrBrennan83 · 09-08-2018 11:47am

Have a look but don't go and make it easy for them unless it suits you 100%. Let then go the HR route and tell them so.

Bandana boy · 09-08-2018 11:50am

How the manager approached it is not good from his companies point of view as it possibly leaves them open to not following proper procedures but in reality he is being open and candid with you .
As such take it as a positive you can leave on your own steam without any bad blood or you can step up your performance to an acceptable level.

Hearing bad news is never nice , particularly in cases like this which will bruise anybodies ego , but dressing up the same conversation in a PIP will cost both parties way more energy.

Pa8301 · 09-08-2018 11:57am

As you're there over a year, the manager will find it pretty hard to get rid of you as long as you don't give him actual proper grounds to start the disciplinary process. I wouldn't give in to your manager too easy if you want to stay there.

martingriff · 09-08-2018 2:20pm

Your managers approach was very stupid and I fell he ran on this solo as if HR or his manager knew about this they would have stopped him. He is hoping you just go so he does not have to go HE route.

If you feel like leaving then do but I would call his bluff and go the HR route. I feel you have an idea that once you go that route you be out no second chances. However in reality I say if they see your making an effort and improving not much will happen. Yes they will monitor for a while. What HR will say to the boss on his discussion well your relationship with him will never be the same

_Brian · 09-08-2018 6:18pm

Speaking as a manager your manager is handling this all wrong.
My fear somis if you try and stick it out they won’t be able to correctly manage the pip either which will just end badly.

Firstly I’d advice start job hunting, always good to have another avenue on the horizon.

Don’t resign, no matter what. You need the regular cash and they owe you procedure even if they are an incompetent bunch.

If you are going down the pip route as I expect you are, remember when agreeing to goals and timelines the idea is you are to perform as an average employee to pass, goals should not be hyped up so you can prove yourself - this is how pips are constructed to manage an employee out - I’ve done this myself.
As part of the pip ask for and get in writing a regular set of reviews where you get feedback and can correct issues well before the end decision date.

Cilantro2000 · 09-08-2018 8:10pm

_Brian wrote: »

Speaking as a manager your manager is handling this all wrong.
My fear somis if you try and stick it out they won’t be able to correctly manage the pip either which will just end badly.

Firstly I’d advice start job hunting, always good to have another avenue on the horizon.

Don’t resign, no matter what. You need the regular cash and they owe you procedure even if they are an incompetent bunch.

If you are going down the pip route as I expect you are, remember when agreeing to goals and timelines the idea is you are to perform as an average employee to pass, goals should not be hyped up so you can prove yourself - this is how pips are constructed to manage an employee out - I’ve done this myself.
As part of the pip ask for and get in writing a regular set of reviews where you get feedback and can correct issues well before the end decision date.

Hopefully I'll have a job offer after my second round interview later in the month. But yes, if it does go down the pip route I will be benchmarking my peers to what's expected in the pip process so they can't impose unrealistic expecations to get me out.

TG1 · 09-08-2018 8:17pm

gozunda wrote: »

Redundancy money if he is being left go as described. Not probably much but all the same the manager seems to want to go down the stupid route and risk a complaint about his behaviour and in a worse case scenario - The matter being investigated and ruled on externally...

Fairly typical bulky boy / head in the sand type of stupid management practices engaged in this country ime

Absolutely not a redundancy situation. Redundancy only occurs if the role is no longer required, not if an individual is being let go for whatever reason but the role is still there.

gozunda · 09-08-2018 11:54pm

TG1 wrote: »

Absolutely not a redundancy situation. Redundancy only occurs if the role is no longer required, not if an individual is being let go for whatever reason but the role is still there.

The point us that the manager has apparently failed to follow due process and therefore cannot let the op 'go for whatever reason'. In asking the OP to leave the manager is attempting to circumvent normal procedure including rights to review pip redundancy (if so required) etc etc

s7ryf3925pivug · 10-08-2018 12:01am

Look for a new job. Quit when you have one. The time and energy you'd spend fighting this would be better spent lining up the best move available.

Cheerful Spring · 10-08-2018 12:33am

Cilantro2000 wrote: »

My manager recently told me that he thinks I'm underperforming and doesn't think I'm a right fit for the role. He said "off the record" that it might be a good idea to look for a job elsewhere, otherwise he'll have to go down the HR route. I'm in the job jist over a year, would just like to get other people's thoughts on this.

Did he only tell you this one time or has he said a few times to you? If it was only one time that blatantly unfair that you were not given a chance. Might you not have been aware you were underperforming?

TG1 · 10-08-2018 4:00am

gozunda wrote: »

The point us that the manager has apparently failed to follow due process and therefore cannot let the op 'go for whatever reason'. In asking the OP to leave the manager is attempting to circumvent normal procedure including rights to review pip redundancy (if so required) etc etc

Be that as it may, it's not right to say he is entitled to more money. He isn't. He may get something if he goes down a legal route but he may not. He may get a compromise pay out if he pushes it with the company, but given all he has is an "off the record conversation" I doubt it. But it's incorrect to set an expectation that he is immediatly entitled to anything other than accrued Al and pay in lieu of notice if he is let go.

Glass fused light · 10-08-2018 7:25am

gozunda wrote: »

The point us that the manager has apparently failed to follow due process and therefore cannot let the op 'go for whatever reason'. In asking the OP to leave the manager is attempting to circumvent normal procedure including rights to review pip redundancy (if so required) etc etc

The manager has not done anything yet which could be classed as failing to follow due process. A single comment would not be classed as bullying or harassment. It may breach under the dignity at work or general HR policy but that would be a disiplinary issue against the manager and of little help to the OP. It clearly shows that the manager is a very poor communicator and I suspect that the job is poorly organised if they waited a year to comment on the OP's ongoing performance.

Irrespective of what happens next to the OP the job will be preformed by someone. Therefore OP has no right to redundancy as the role is not being removed or reorganised.

gozunda wrote: »

A question - what is this manager like to work with? And more importantly what is the company like in relation to dealing with workplace issues? This should help you decide what you need to do next.

This is very good advice.

The manager has said that he will go down the HR route to remove the OP, and did not bother to do reviews so I would say he is a poor manager but good enough to cover his ass using HR. The important thing is not the work but that the manager has decided the OP is not a good fit. The OP can become the best worker in the place but will the manager be happy?

gozunda wrote: »

Whatever you decide to do - The manager needs to be reported for inappropriate behaviour.

If you do leave I would ask for an exit interview - and use that give the company the full details of your managers behaviour and your reason for leaving.

This is good advice in theory, but I prefer to be Christian about it:

Jesus says, “And if any place will not welcome you or listen to you, leave that place and shake the dust off your feet as a testimony against them.”

Misguided1 · 10-08-2018 1:06pm

Glass fused light wrote: »

The manager has not done anything yet which could be classed as failing to follow due process. A single comment would not be classed as bullying or harassment. It may breach under the dignity at work or general HR policy but that would be a disiplinary issue against the manager and of little help to the OP. It clearly shows that the manager is a very poor communicator and I suspect that the job is poorly organised if they waited a year to comment on the OP's ongoing performance.

Irrespective of what happens next to the OP the job will be preformed by someone. Therefore OP has no right to redundancy as the role is not being removed or reorganised.

This is very good advice.

The manager has said that he will go down the HR route to remove the OP, and did not bother to do reviews so I would say he is a poor manager but good enough to cover his ass using HR. The important thing is not the work but that the manager has decided the OP is not a good fit. The OP can become the best worker in the place but will the manager be happy?

That is good advice Glass fused light!

The manager has given the 'OP' a shot across the bough. The OP doesn't deny the suggestion of under-performance. You could go back to your manager and say "I now know what you expect of me and am certain I can meet those expectations. I'm not interested in finding another job. Thanks for the heads up - I really think we can make this work." See how the manager responds to that...

davo10 · 10-08-2018 1:45pm

gozunda wrote: »

Redundancy money if he is being left go as described. /quote]

Op would have to have 104 weeks of service to qualify for redundancy payment, he/she posted that only in the job just over a year.

_Brian · 10-08-2018 9:16pm

Here’s an angle and it’s something worth thinking about.

Maybe a senior manager has indicated to op’s manager that op needs issues addressed and the manager is giving op the opportunity to leave rather than be managed out.

In the past I’ve worked in a large company where senior managers would meddle in employee affairs and have been instructed to “manage that fella out” or “run him through a pip” to put manners on him.
It could be for many petty reasons, lads who don’t work overtime, snotty attitude, asking awkward questions of senior managers in open meetings, you’d be surprised why senior managers take the hump with employees well below their grade.

I’ve been put in the position when I pushed back where “it’s him or it’s you”

Manager wants me gone

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