Guy touches girls arm, faces 10 years for sexual assault

Ironicname · 10-10-2019 3:27pm

One eyed Jack wrote:

And youâ€™re attempting to suggest the girl was over-reacting?

I think she definitely over reacted

Andrew00 · 10-10-2019 3:28pm

Ur man looks like a school shooter

c.p.w.g.w · 10-10-2019 3:29pm

Context and intent are very important, but people are totally ignoring that

Sam Quentin · 10-10-2019 3:31pm

I don't think he meant any arm.

One eyed Jack · 10-10-2019 3:35pm

Ironicname wrote: »

I think she definitely over reacted

Well she brushed off the first interaction between them as weird and thought nothing of it. The second time he came at her, I can’t say I blame her for making a complaint against him. It would have to have been considered an over-reaction all the way up the chain from that point on - from the investigating officers to the prosecution to the magistrates. Are they all over-reacting too?

He hasn’t even been sentenced yet and the opening post talks about how the world is fcuked and he could have been on death row for touching a girls arm. I’d suggest that was the over-reaction the Daily Mail were hoping for.

El_Duderino 09 · 10-10-2019 3:36pm

Andrew00 wrote: »

Ur man looks like a school shooter

Well, yeah he does. But isn't being socially awkward and unable to fit in, a pretty common theme in school shootings?

The INCELs get a lot of stick and they're an easy target. I think that's too easy. Those blokes need help, I'm sure they get enough sagging day in day out. The school shootings are not really the point, they're just a very obvious symptom of the fact that these people are desperately unable to cope with things and need support.

El_Duderino 09 · 10-10-2019 3:37pm

c.p.w.g.w wrote: »

Context and intent are very important, but people are totally ignoring that

Not most of the people on this thread. Most people are considering both of those things.

What conclusion do you think people would come to if they considered context and intention?

osarusan · 10-10-2019 3:39pm

The defence story about just being lonely and looking for a friend sounds hopelessly untrue, but I don't think it's a sexual assault either, maybe just common assault.

suicide_circus · 10-10-2019 3:41pm

the hormonal desires coursing through the veins of a teenage boy are literally mind boggling and quite relentless. this dosnt excuse any wrongdoing but there is no talk or class in the world that can equip a person for it.

Ironicname · 10-10-2019 3:48pm

One eyed Jack wrote:

He hasnâ€™t even been sentenced yet and the opening post talks about how the world is fcuked and he could have been on death row for touching a girls arm. Iâ€™d suggest that was the over-reaction the Daily Mail were hoping for.

I'd argue that someone potentially being on a sex offenders register for what was described is absolutely absurd. I personally think any punishment is absurd.

What would you suggest would be a suitable punishment?

El_Duderino 09 · 10-10-2019 3:48pm

suicide_circus wrote: »

the hormonal desires coursing through the veins of a teenage boy are literally mind boggling and quite relentless. this dosnt excuse any wrongdoing but there is no talk or class in the world that can equip a person for it.

Yeah but most people don't do stuff like this guy. Assuming he doesn't get social interactions, he's in a different category and needs additional support.

c.p.w.g.w · 10-10-2019 3:49pm

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Not most of the people on this thread. Most people are considering both of those things.

What conclusion do you think people would come to if they considered context and intention?

Sorry I meant most people in position of power.

Just look at the count dacula in Scotland with the nazi pug context was totally ignored by the courts

suicide_circus · 10-10-2019 3:53pm

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Yeah but most people don't do stuff like this guy. Assuming he doesn't get social interactions, he's in a different category and needs additional support.

and theres also the gender dynamic at play.

El_Duderino 09 · 10-10-2019 3:55pm

suicide_circus wrote: »

and theres also the gender dynamic at play.

What does that mean?

And would you agree that this guy needs additional support?

Nermal · 10-10-2019 3:55pm

PoisonIvyBelle wrote: »

The guy needs therapy for social anxiety or whatever he has going on.
The girl needs therapy for what was an anxiety-provoking and traumatic encounter for her (we don't know her history, so in some context this may have been extremely traumatic for her).

EvErYoNe NeEdS tHeRaPy!

HTFU for god's sake.

suicide_circus · 10-10-2019 3:57pm

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

What does that mean?

well a girl touching a boys arm would never have made it to court

El_Duderino 09 · 10-10-2019 4:02pm

suicide_circus wrote: »

well a girl touching a boys arm would never have made it to court

Yeah. A girl touching a boys arm probably wouldn't have been worth reporting because of physical differences, strength, likelihood of causing harm. But I take your point. Never miss an opportunity to Bring gender into it.

10-10-2019 4:03pm

Eric Cartman wrote: »

The idea that he is even in a position to get a conviction is worrying

Hmmmm, if my Ma or daughter came home and said that some weirdo had been standing facing the bushes, in a confined space with limited escape points like, say, a bridge, then suddenly turned around and touched her without saying anything, I'd be a little concerned.

If he then did it to her on a second occasion and deliberately stood in front of her to stop her walking off only this time he instead touched her around the waist......that's clearly an escalation of behaviour and in my head I'd be thinking....."what's he working up to, how far will this go?"

There would most certainly not be a third time.

Snotty · 10-10-2019 4:07pm

I'm interested to know what would be the process here from reporting to police to going to court, would there have been an opportunity for speaking to the guardians, maybe issue a caution, maybe a realization that this wasn't an assault but just a stupid act by a simple person. Or if a complaint like this is made would it always go to court unless the perpetrator cannot be found, evidence etc.

I don't think this takes away from the victim, just because she feels threatened does not mean a crime was committed.

One eyed Jack · 10-10-2019 4:08pm

Ironicname wrote: »

I'd argue that someone potentially being on a sex offenders register for what was described is absolutely absurd. I personally think any punishment is absurd.

What would you suggest would be a suitable punishment?

‘I don’t know’ is my genuine and honest answer to that question, because I can’t say without having heard all the evidence myself what punishment would or wouldn’t be appropriate. I’d have to take into account any mitigating circumstances and so on, but like I said earlier in the thread, I’d happily see guys with that attitude so time. I really would.

The magistrates in this case who heard all the evidence in the case were of the opinion that -

Magistrates told Griffiths: 'The complainant's evidence was very clear, logical and without embellishment. We can think of no motivation for you to touch the victim other than sexual.

'Had she not taken evasive action the assault was likely to have been even more serious. The first assault can be recognised as opportunistic however there is more evidence of premeditation in the second.'

So on that basis, I’d be of the opinion that some form of punishment is appropriate for his behaviour. It might be a harsh lesson for him to learn, but I hope he does learn from it and doesn’t repeat the same sort of behaviour again. It’s not ok to do that to people.

El_Duderino 09 · 10-10-2019 4:09pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Hmmmm, if my Ma or daughter came home and said that some weirdo had been standing facing the bushes, in a confined space with limited escape points like, say, a bridge, then suddenly turned around and touched her without saying anything, I'd be a little concerned.

If he then did it to her on a second occasion and deliberately stood in front of her to stop her walking off only this time he instead touched her around the waist......that's clearly an escalation of behaviour and in my head I'd be thinking....."what's he working up to, how far will this go?"

There would most certainly not be a third time.

Escalation could well be a factor. I'd wonder about stalking behaviours too. But we don't have evidence one way or the other.

PoisonIvyBelle · 10-10-2019 4:15pm

Nermal wrote: »

EvErYoNe NeEdS tHeRaPy!

HTFU for god's sake.

That sentence hurts my eyes, but I'll let it go.

You think that this is normal behaviour from this young man and that he wouldn't benefit from having therapy to address his conduct and how he can change it?

You think that this was a normal reaction from the girl and that it's not more likely to stem from pre-existing issues that she would benefit from addressing?

Or do you think that it's plain and simple sexual assault? I'd love to hear your opinion, if you have one and aren't just plain trolling.

10-10-2019 4:16pm

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Escalation could well be a factor. I'd wonder about stalking behaviours too. But we don't have evidence one way or the other.

He touched her on the arm and she said stop.
He then subsequently touched her on the waist.
That's a clear escalation, in my eyes, and needs to be nipped in the bud.

El_Duderino 09 · 10-10-2019 4:16pm

One eyed Jack wrote: »

‘I don’t know’ is my genuine and honest answer to that question, because I can’t say without having heard all the evidence myself what punishment would or wouldn’t be appropriate. I’d have to take into account any mitigating circumstances and so on, but like I said earlier in the thread, I’d happily see guys with that attitude so time. I really would.

The magistrates in this case who heard all the evidence in the case were of the opinion that -

Magistrates told Griffiths: 'The complainant's evidence was very clear, logical and without embellishment. We can think of no motivation for you to touch the victim other than sexual.

'Had she not taken evasive action the assault was likely to have been even more serious. The first assault can be recognised as opportunistic however there is more evidence of premeditation in the second.'

So on that basis, I’d be of the opinion that some form of punishment is appropriate for his behaviour. It might be a harsh lesson for him to learn, but I hope he does learn from it and doesn’t repeat the same sort of behaviour again. It’s not ok to do that to people.

It really shows the consequences of the pick up artists you mentioned earlier. We know that guy doesn't understand social cues and heuristics of social interactions.
We know be researched how to make friends. Imagine him coming across the guy from from the BBC show telling him to ignore someone saying "no" and I stead read their body language.

Those guys can be pretty dangerous.

PoisonIvyBelle · 10-10-2019 4:16pm

One eyed Jack wrote: »

No it doesn’t? One has no bearing on the other. The prosecution and the magistrates who know the law and heard the evidence in this case determined that it constituted sexual assault. Therefore by that criteria, this was a real case of sexual assault, and it got the respect it deserved in Court.

Whatever way it is represented and reported in the media, and whatever anyone else chooses to make of it according to their own standards, is an entirely different matter.

It absolutely does. Just take a look at this thread and other threads on boards around these issues.

El_Duderino 09 · 10-10-2019 4:18pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

He touched her on the arm and she said stop.
He then subsequently touched her on the waist.
That's a clear escalation, in my eyes, and needs to be nipped in the bud.

Agreed. But how do you nip it in the bud with a guy who doesn't understand social cues? Conviction? Prison? Supervision? Or something more supportive to teach him how to interact?

punisher5112 · 10-10-2019 4:19pm

I'm actually appalled to be honest, I've been punched, spat on and threatened with syringes and knives in work and also attacked on a night out 3 times over the years and attacked while dismounting from my motorbike at the time....

Friend was seriously assaulted and the girlfriend and nobody done any time or was even in court.

The guy that hit me when dismounting the motorbike ended up paying compensation but that's it... Nobody else were caught, arrested or fined even....

Suppose my life isn't as important as a girls and I get it he was odd and yes he touched her arm and side but it is in no way assault of any high degree.

Had my bike stolen as a kid, beaten up numerous times and even by 3 guys with timber around Halloween time and I was only around 10 and these were in their early 20's...

Definitely he needs sending on a course and needs help in interaction with others but I can't see how doing prison time I'd the right answer....

Also I fully understand it was a strange situation and I'm sure it was awkward and possibly frightening in a way but she will have all that on a night out anywhere on the world.
Not that it's right but it's something that will happen again most likely.

Nermal · 10-10-2019 4:21pm

PoisonIvyBelle wrote: »

You think that this is normal behaviour from this young man and that he wouldn't benefit from having therapy to address his conduct and how he can change it?

You think that this was a normal reaction from the girl and that it's not more likely to stem from pre-existing issues that she would benefit from addressing?

I think both he and her would benefit greatly from her getting a good swing of her handbag at his head, and everyone generally just getting on with things after that without wasting court time.

El_Duderino 09 · 10-10-2019 4:22pm

punisher5112 wrote: »

I'm actually appalled to be honest, I've been punched, spat on and threatened with syringes and knives in work and also attacked on a night out 3 times over the years and attacked while dismounting from my motorbike at the time....

Friend was seriously assaulted and the girlfriend and nobody done any time or was even in court.

The guy that hit me when dismounting the motorbike ended up paying compensation but that's it... Nobody else were caught, arrested or fined even....

Suppose my life isn't as important as a girls and I get it he was odd and yes he touched her arm and side but it is in no way assault of any high degree.

Had my bike stolen as a kid, beaten up numerous times and even by 3 guys with timber around Halloween time and I was only around 10 and these were in their early 20's...

Sorry yo hear about all that.

Did you report all those incidents to the UK police and pursue them through the UK legal system?

EDit · 10-10-2019 4:23pm

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Agreed. But how do you nip it in the bud with a guy who doesn't understand social cues? Conviction? Prison? Supervision? Or something more supportive to teach him how to interact?

This is the key thing for me. The trial, possible conviction and related publicity will likely just make this guy even more insular and socially inept, potentially leading to more problems down the line. A stern talking to from the police (with a formal caution) + some suitable therapy and social education (without the associated media circus) would seem a much more sensible approach

Guy touches girls arm, faces 10 years for sexual assault

Comments