Saorview Content Speculation

icdg · 09-06-2010 7:37pm #1

Feel free to speculate on what content will be on the free-to-air digital terrestrial television platform, which the powers that be have stupidly decided to name "Saorview" (thus leaving anyone that doesn't speak Irish confused as to what "Saor" means and leaving those that DO speak Irish annoyed that it wasn't called "Saorfeach". But that's neither hear nor there).

I'll start the ball rolling by predicting that there will be no additional TV channels other than RTÉ News Now, at least initially.

scath · 09-06-2010 7:53pm

icdg wrote: »

Feel free to speculate on what content will be on the free-to-air digital terrestrial television platform, which the powers that be have stupidly decided to name "Saorview" (thus leaving anyone that doesn't speak Irish confused as to what "Saor" means and leaving those that DO speak Irish annoyed that it wasn't called "Saorfeach". But that's neither hear nor there).

I'll start the ball rolling by predicting that there will be no additional TV channels other than RTÉ News Now, at least initially.

Very good..I'm the guily one at wikipedia...lol put my hands up..guns out lol

But I would say that Oireachtas TV will go ahead now. Children's channel probably will go ahead according to the SBP too freeing up RTÉ2. RTÉ3 a possibility. 5TV unlikely but should be considered by city channels, IFC/DCTV should be considered but may not be ready yet for that step financially.

cc · 09-06-2010 7:56pm

I think it should least have an international news channel, CNN or BBC world maybe.

Mr McBoatface · 09-06-2010 8:02pm

Right so I've just looked in my crystal ball

and I reckon in October they'll start with
1. RTE 1 ( assuming it's possible to switch from SD to HD, then with odd HD program starting in 2011 )
2. RTE 2
3. TV3
4. TG4
5. OTV/RTE News Now - Shared Channel
6. RTE Kids/RTE 3 - Shared Channel

RTE Kids will be similar to Cbeebies and CBBC combined.
RTE3 will have reruns of some of the better late night RTE1 & 2 programs at a more reasonable hour.

When ASO is completed and the DTT service is launched in full I can see 3E & RTE Movies joining the line up and RTE1 will have all content broadcast/upscaled to HD.

I've no factually basis for making these comments, it will be interesting to look back and see how wrong I was

Mayo Exile · 09-06-2010 8:03pm

icdg wrote: »

I'll start the ball rolling by predicting that there will be no additional TV channels other than RTÉ News Now, at least initially.

3e maybe?

John mac · 09-06-2010 8:18pm

jobyrne30 wrote: »

When ASO is completed and the DTT service is launched in full I can see 3E & RTE Movies joining the line up and RTE1 will have all content broadcast/upscaled to HD.

and the year. May 2013

:D

Mr McBoatface · 09-06-2010 8:29pm

John mac wrote: »

and the year. May 2013 :D

Well that's what my Crystal Ball predicts...

Apogee · 09-06-2010 9:06pm

icdg wrote: »

Feel free to speculate on what content will be on the free-to-air digital terrestrial television platform, which the powers that be have stupidly decided to name "Saorview" (thus leaving anyone that doesn't speak Irish confused as to what "Saor" means and leaving those that DO speak Irish annoyed that it wasn't called "Saorfeach". But that's neither hear nor there).

Sure God help us and save us and the Saints above preserve us, but the poor downtrodden, ignorant, misfortunate people of Ireland will be left in pitiful bewilderment, with only the flames of the open hearth for entertainment, when every TV in the country spontaneously explodes come the 31st of October.

scath · 09-06-2010 9:21pm

Apogee wrote: »

Sure God help us and save us and the Saints above preserve us, but the poor downtrodden, ignorant, misfortunate people of Ireland will be left in pitiful bewilderment, with only the flames of the open hearth for entertainment, when every TV in the country spontaneously explodes come the 31st of October.

lol..well at least we maintain our sense of humour anyhows...

Good crystal ball there jobryne30. I think they'll make Quarter 4 2012.

I think yere probably not far off on the 6 channels. Its possible that OTV and RTÉ News Now will timeshare. I mean they could have Oireachtas TV with RTÉ News Now ticker. But I think they'll have separate channels.
RTE Kids and RTE3 may timeshare.

I too would like to see news channels on Saorview. For that to happen RTÉ would need another mux. They could go for 2 muxes now and put News Channels on it and put off HD til 2014 and seek another mux for HD. However News channels could be part of the FTA element of Commercial DTT when that happens.

watty · 09-06-2010 10:31pm

TV channels

RTE1
RTE2
TV3 (eventually)
TG4
Oireachtas TV / RTE News (not enough content for 2 full channels)

(there are two Oireachtas TV feeds already for years and 2.3GHz spectrum tied up in part of Dublin).
All RTE's Radio

RTÉ Radio 1
RTÉ 2fm
RTÉ lyric fm
RTÉ Raidió na Gaeltachta

Including spectrum wasting DAB Stations

RTÉ 2 XM
RTÉ Choice
RTÉ Junior / Chill
RTÉ Gold
RTÉ Pulse
RTÉ Radio 1 Extra

No HD once TV3 joins. HD needs another THREE Muxes if all 4 channels on HD as well as SD, or TWO addition Mux if no SD.
In theory with Saorview spec boxes people without HD can use HD feed, so no need for wasteful simulcast.

byte · 09-06-2010 10:40pm

The DAB radio stations are hardly spectrum-wasting, if there's nothing else to use the available bandwidth! Also, DTT is considerably more national than DAB is.

watty · 09-06-2010 10:45pm

I did put a

RTE has to put something DAB and DTT Radio.

Charles Slane · 09-06-2010 10:54pm

Yes, spectrum-wastage is a matter of opinion. I'd much rather the digital radio stations than Oireachtas TV. Or Tg4 for that matter. But that's my personal taste.

HD apparently would be a waste of spectrum, since we're costantly being told that you need a massive TV to notice any real difference (although I haven't found that to be the case).

So bring on 3e for Family Guy, The Office and the occasional great movie (La Haine was on recently).

watty · 09-06-2010 11:15pm

TV3 won't pay for 3e untill > 60% or more of people have DTT. After all they reach almost 80% with TV3e now on Sky + UPC.

Actually by that logic, they may not even want to put TV3 on DTT till ASO.

FREETV · 10-06-2010 2:48am

watty wrote: »

TV3 won't pay for 3e untill > 60% or more of people have DTT. After all they reach almost 80% with TV3e now on Sky + UPC.

Actually by that logic, they may not even want to put TV3 on DTT till ASO.

I want and I know that my old Dad wants 3e along with TV3 to be shown from the beginning of the partial launch of Saorview on October 31. The picture is only brutal in Meath for TV3 in analogue and he does enjoy his Tonight with Vincent Browne, the odd documentary too. I know that he would love to see History Channel or National Geographic channels sometime on DTT but he may dream on as they are all premium pay per view channels.

I don't want to see slapper channels or shopping channels ever on DTT. Such rubbish. They would be a complete waste of bandwidth. There are enough of them already on FTA satellite. Entertainment, film and sports channels are what the masses want. It should be made mandatory for all Irish tv stations to be FTA on Saorview from the very start. Maybe we should start a petition and send it to RTE, BAI, the Minister etc.

watty · 10-06-2010 8:50am

All existing FTA Irish TV will be on DTT. TV3e is cable/satellite only pay channel with about 1% viewers. I can't see TV3 wanting to pay the x100 higher cost to have this on DTT for 0.1% more viewers.

kuro_man · 10-06-2010 10:02am

Charles Slane wrote: »

HD apparently would be a waste of spectrum, since we're costantly being told that you need a massive TV to notice any real difference (although I haven't found that to be the case)

There is a strong argument about the merits of 1080 v 720 on screens below 50" but I think most people see a difference between SD and HD on any decent TV. Even beyond resolution, HD has a less compression artefacts and therefore, a cleaner, clearer image with better colours.

64% (source: joinfreesat.co.uk) of freesat customers invested around £200 just to get 1.5 (now 2) HD channels.
RTE should launch a HD channel from the start creating a unique selling point, especially for Sport. Magners league, GAA, Movies, US dramas etc. all in HD for free would encourage sales and guarantee an overlap between $ky/upc customers, extending the market beyond analogue-only customers. This could eventually make a commercial DTT service viable.

scath · 10-06-2010 12:35pm

There is more than enough content for Oireachtas TV to be full time Watty because Europarl TV is intended to be on it when the Oireachtas isn't sitting. So a timeshare there so easily a 24hour channel.

As regards RTÉ News Now, well that is a different story. It may lack content. It could partner with Euronews on international news for its channel. It has a stake in it.

Oireachtas TV is not about being popular viewing. Its about the public being able to see what is being discussed when they so wish to. You'd be surprised how much you would learn from the committees. If you have a short attention span then of course you won't be interested. But I am in favour of it purely for transparency reasons.

I reckon 3e will go on DTT if only to give it greater reach for the same reason TV3 will be on it.

Children's Channel is likely to go ahead also together with reconfigured RTÉ2 as per the Sunday Business Post. It makes sense from a branding point of view in digital land rather than as RTÉ2.

Line-up

RTÉ1
RTÉ2 (foreign & Sport)
RTÉ News Now

TV3
3e
TG4 (archive-reconfigured)

Oireachtas TV-Europarl TV timeshare
Culabula Den TV (RTÉ-TG4)-timeshare with Open Education TV at nightime.

This is what's likely

2 questions marks are:
Irish Film Channel-DCTV
RTÉ3
5TV (City Channels)

Personally I feel there isn't need for RTÉ3 when TG4 can do with the archive programming to fill hours left vacant by Cula4 and could also remove France24. So no need for RTÉ3.

I would be in favour of Irish Film Channel, DCTV-P5TV, Cork CTV etc and to give regional/local TV a chance and also 5TV which would be its commercial equivalent.

you could roll these 2 into 1 under 5TV and have advertising. That way the channel would be self financing with each partner earning the revenue during its programme breaks.

Macy0161 · 10-06-2010 2:07pm

Do they film/ stream the committee's? Could they not show that on Oireachtas TV, as per BBC Parliament?

I actually don't think TV3 will be on at launch, never mind 3e, but I would like 3e on it.

Wasn't there once a proposal for RTE Gold, which in my speculation would timeshare with the children's channel?

And what no "+1" channels?

watty · 10-06-2010 2:22pm

Sometimes
http://www.oireachtas.ie/viewdoc.asp?fn=/documents/livewebcast/Web-Live.htm

Sam Russell · 10-06-2010 2:26pm

watty wrote: »

No HD once TV3 joins. HD needs another THREE Muxes if all 4 channels on HD as well as SD, or TWO addition Mux if no SD.
In theory with Saorview spec boxes people without HD can use HD feed, so no need for wasteful simulcast.

It would be madness for RTE to even contemplate HD and SD simulcast. It has always been in the spec that SAORview would have HD compatibility, and it would be insane for any non-SAORview equipment to be entertained, as lack of HD will become a de facto standard that will be hard to break from - NO SD/HD simulcast, it is unnecessary. Annalogue will continue long enough for replacement, compatible equipment to be purchased.

There was a long period of 'accommodation' of 405 line TVs when RTE started broacasting 60 years ago. As a result, a lot of crap unreliable dual-standard sets were sold all over Ireland because of this requirement, even though it did not apply in the south and west of the country. We have more than enough incompatible MPEG2 TV sets (HD ready of course) that now need a STB for, courtesy of UK retail outlets. It is not even possible to find out for certain if current stock of TVs and STBs will receive the new service, due launch in 5 months! For example, Sony do not have it on their (UK based) website whether sets have MPEG4, and Panasonic have many entries on these threads talking about reception problems.

By the way, TV3 are not even wide screen yet on their own productions, so I think it will be a while before they go wide screen, let alone HD. (Maybe if RTE go HD, they can sell their old studio stuff to TV3.)

Madness.

Rant over. :mad:

In the old days · 11-06-2010 12:52am

OK. My tuppance worth! The more channels on Saorview the more RTE will canabalise its existing FTA viewership and market share i.e. comparing the new DTT service to existing analogue. More choice means more competition. To try and be innovative an RTE HD channel should be a priority. How about all the national radio stations on DTT as a small attraction. At least Today fm could be recorded (would love to timeshift a few programmes and annoying that it doesn't broadcast on astra/sky like newstalk!). I also think streaming the regional radio stations might be a hook for 'ex Pats' based in Dublin (e.g. Shannonside etc. for regional GAA and Death Notices)! TVwise BBC 1 + 2 NI and say Eurosport and CNBC wouldn't be a bad basic FTA package in my book. No idea about bandwith requirements for this 'package'!!!

watty · 11-06-2010 8:54am

There isn't the space. Not for any decent FM comparable quality.

Sam Russell · 11-06-2010 10:47am

watty wrote: »

There isn't the space. Not for any decent FM comparable quality.

There are FOUR muxes all MPEG4 FGS.

watty · 11-06-2010 11:32am

Until there is a change of plan or a Commercial operator, there is only ONE mux.

scath · 11-06-2010 11:38am

Sam Russell wrote: »

There are FOUR muxes all MPEG4 FGS.

Yea, but at the moment those are ringfenced for the BAI. The local radio stations should also be on DTT. That's a good idea. The channels you mentioned In the Old days would be subscription channels so they will not happen. The most we can hope for is news channels and afew others. I have suggested to the Dept giving another Mux to RTÉ from the BAI. That would allow a decent FTA offering covering News channels, free music ones etc so then you would have 20 FTA channels, National and Local Radio.

At the moment RTÉ NL haven't planned for 3 muxes, only for 2. The idea would be that the Commercial Operator would have FTA channels in return for higher carriage costs than the subscription channels carried and RTÉ would stick to Irish PSB programmes. Now the way the thing is I think that RTÉ should be given gifted a 3rd mux in order to beef up the FTA offering and give the platform a decent chance. That is one extra. That means they would get one post ASO for HD and would have to spend a little on equipment for an extra mux.

The 3 BAI muxes can be available to Sky for example then for subscription then, 2 now and 1 at ASO. That would mean lower rental costs also and security bond requirements. I think such a model would work. Whether the figures will stack up for Sky is another question.

I think that the BAI should waste no time following a research on the market, to re-tender. I suspect that Sky and Eircom would be interested. Others I would not expect to be interested so it would be straightforward enough. The fees RTÉ NL are looking for etc is probably the issue and I don't know how that would be got around.

Sam Russell · 11-06-2010 12:06pm

watty wrote: »

Until there is a change of plan or a Commercial operator, there is only ONE mux.

There are four muxes up and running. There is a change of plan, no-one wants the commercial contract, so no matter what, a new plan there will be. RTE will get a second mux later, but this is later. It makes emminent sense to allow RTE to operate the muxes as they wish, within the approval of the BAI, and presumably the minister.

They can 'test' the comm muxes for them.:)

watty · 11-06-2010 1:46pm

The rest of the sites will only have one Mux.

The extra 3 will be switched off to save massive electric bill.

watty · 11-06-2010 1:48pm

You can get LG phones that do DTT. If you put all the Radio on DTT, then DAB would be a poorer quality duplication

Gerry Wicklow · 11-06-2010 1:51pm

Sam Russell wrote: »

They can 'test' the comm muxes for them.:)

Not if they insist on jamming Preseli:mad:. One mux is more than enough for them.

mrdtv2010 · 11-06-2010 2:48pm

Gerry Wicklow wrote: »

Not if they insist on jamming Preseli:mad:. One mux is more than enough for them.

Exactly. This continues to be a technology trainwreck of the type which Ireland has uniquely and so beautifully specialised in since 1961. For Dxers with the relevant T2 equipment Caradon Hill HD has been brought forward by two months and is now, as of World Cup kickoff in a few minutes, live as of 0600GMT.

Saorview Content Speculation

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