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AIB charging 'astronomical' fee for records of payments

  • 02-01-2007 1:48pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 14,325 ✭✭✭✭


    I'm glad I don't bank with this shower of ....

    http://www.unison.ie/irish_independent/stories.php3?ca=299&si=1747739&issue_id=15048

    As I work in software development, I find it incomprehensible why a request for a historical statement is so difficult to provide given the technology base of the bank. Either the bank is blatently ripping people off or their IT people are woefully incompetent that they cannot change the start date of statement when doing a statement run. something tells me it is the former rather than the latter.


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Comments

  • Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 28,441 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cabaal


    For those not bothered to reg a unison a/c the story is
    AN angry reader has accused AIB of taking advantage of its customers over the charges it imposes for historical banking records.

    The reader, who does not want to be named, said he was taken aback at what the bank sought to charge to provide his records.

    "I recently needed to acquire historical information from my AIB current account regarding a payment I had been making from that account every month," he wrote.

    "The payment had been ongoing for about two-and-a-half years. As I didn't keep my bank statements that far back I contacted AIB to request they provide me with the information. 24-Hour Banking could not provide me with the information as their records only went back five months."

    The reader was advised to contact his local branch. "They also said that their records only went back five months; in order to find the information I was looking for they told me that I would need to request a duplicate bank statement going back the two-and-a-half year period I requested.

    "To my surprise they also told me there would be an administration cost of €2.57 per page!

    "Last year my bank statement for the 12 months was 50 pages long. Doing the maths (I'm suddenly glad I did honours for the Leaving Cert), this equates to a cost of €321.25."

    He added: "In the age of modern technology I can surf the internet and find out pretty much anything I like."

    For example, he could quickly find out that the real name of footballer Pele was Edson Arantes do Nascimiento, or that in 1848 Niagara Falls experienced a break of half an hour, when an ice jam blocked the source river.

    "Yet our nation's largest bank, with resources and technology vastly superior to my simple middle-management laptop, can not find out the most basic of information for me.

    "It is an absolute disgrace that banks should consider their customers so naive as to not be appalled by this astronomical fee! Another example of AIB taking advantage of customers."

    Asked to comment AIB said: "Unfortunately, there is a cost to the business in processing duplicate statements, which is passed on to those customers who request the service."

    Have Your Say by emailing cweston@independent.ie. Views expressed are those of the author and do not reflect the opinion of the Irish Independent.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,148 ✭✭✭✭Sangre


    Ptsb is €2.50 a page as well. BOI would probably be similar, banks rarely differ too much on these costs. 80% of the time you tell people this they usually end up looking and finding the old statements.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,123 ✭✭✭stepbar


    Sangre wrote:
    Ptsb is €2.50 a page as well. BOI would probably be similar, banks rarely differ too much on these costs. 80% of the time you tell people this they usually end up looking and finding the old statements.

    Any thing pre 2002 (in BOI anyhow) usually is stored on microfilm so therefore someone physically has to go and look for the statements. So thats what the consumer is paying for, the labour involved. You would be suprised how hard it is to search through multiple statements etc. Now one may argue that it should be kept on an IT system but im sure the banks involved have it worked out and have done some sort of cost benefit analysis which would suggest it is more cost effective to store the statements on microfilm rather than spend the extra money on additional hardware / software. TBH it makes economic sense because there are few people who would need to go back that far for statements. There is no point keeping transactions live on a system when only a small minority of people will ever need to access them.


  • Site Banned Posts: 5,904 ✭✭✭parsi


    I agree with sangre - sometimes if people realise there is a cost involved then they suddenly find what they need rather than you having to do it for them...

    How much would his accountant charge for similar work ?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,070 ✭✭✭ScouseMouse


    I wanted to know what AIB held on me last year, so make a request to the Data Protection Officer in bankcentre Ballsbridge. For a fee of 6.35, they are obliged to give you a print out of everything - yes everything, they hold about you on computer. This included screen shots, statements and all the other records they held. They have no choice !!!

    The file I got was nearly 6 inches thick.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 10,846 ✭✭✭✭eth0_


    Superscouse - send an email to the Irish Indo informing them of this.
    Then sit back and smile as AIB and the other banks are swamped. Serves them right with their refusal to drag themselves into the 21st century.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,123 ✭✭✭stepbar


    I wanted to know what AIB held on me last year, so make a request to the Data Protection Officer in bankcentre Ballsbridge. For a fee of 6.35, they are obliged to give you a print out of everything - yes everything, they hold about you on computer. This included screen shots, statements and all the other records they held. They have no choice !!!

    The file I got was nearly 6 inches thick.

    And what did you find out that you didnt already know?


  • Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 28,441 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cabaal


    stepbar wrote:
    And what did you find out that you didnt already know?

    ah, his statements at a much lower cost? ;)


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    Thats a data protection request superscouse not a "request for statements" .

    To get the €6.35 package see first

    http://www.dataprivacy.ie/viewdoc.asp?DocID=4

    and then for some bits of AIB

    http://www.dataprivacy.ie/ViewDoc.asp?fn=/documents/register/default.asp?TVar=mypage:2;kw:

    and finally the main bit is

    http://www.dataprivacy.ie/ViewDoc.asp?fn=/documents/register/display.asp?ID=0424%2FA

    Write to that fella and tell him you want all your data :p

    All banks charge an arm and a leg for "copy statements" , not just AIB.


  • Site Banned Posts: 5,904 ✭✭✭parsi


    I suppose this does show that one should keep ones statements just in case. Along with your tax certs and payslips.

    TBH yer mans comments about being able to use google from his laptop are a bit irrelevant especially in light of the fact that up o recently AIB were using Win3.11 on their branch terminals...


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,070 ✭✭✭ScouseMouse


    Sponge Bob wrote:
    Thats a data protection request superscouse not a "request for statements" .

    To get the €6.35 package see first

    http://www.dataprivacy.ie/viewdoc.asp?DocID=4

    and then for some bits of AIB

    http://www.dataprivacy.ie/ViewDoc.asp?fn=/documents/register/default.asp?TVar=mypage:2;kw:

    and finally the main bit is

    http://www.dataprivacy.ie/ViewDoc.asp?fn=/documents/register/display.asp?ID=0424%2FA

    Write to that fella and tell him you want all your data :p

    All banks charge an arm and a leg for "copy statements" , not just AIB.


    I know it is a data protection request but the required statements, the subject of this thread, were all included.I got every statement from the start of time.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,070 ✭✭✭ScouseMouse


    stepbar wrote:
    And what did you find out that you didnt already know?

    I really wanted to find out my rating for credit purposes, whether there were any notes about me that were inaccurate and generally what info AIB held on me.

    All for 6.35 euro


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,637 ✭✭✭brightspark


    The banks know that with the Data Protection Act anyone can simply demand all their details for only 6.35.

    This is one of the reasons some banks changed their charging systems a few years ago.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,123 ✭✭✭stepbar


    I really wanted to find out my rating for credit purposes, whether there were any notes about me that were inaccurate and generally what info AIB held on me.

    All for 6.35 euro

    You sound like you were refused for a loan or something. Were you not happy with the reason given or something? or is that you have a general distrust banks?


  • Registered Users Posts: 999 ✭✭✭cregser


    stepbar wrote:
    You sound like you were refused for a loan or something. Were you not happy with the reason given or something? or is that you have a general distrust banks?
    Maybe he was just taking advantage of his right to information about himself for the sheer heck of it. If someone had 6 inches thick worth of material on me I'd be curious too.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,070 ✭✭✭ScouseMouse


    No, i have never been refused anything and I have a good relationship with my bank AIB. The reason I did it was to see what depth of information they were carrying about me and if any of it was incorrect. My next search will be the irish credit bureau in Clonskeagh as they hold records for all the main banks and finanacial institutions. When you apply for credit or a loan, it is in the agreement that the institution will record a search with them and check what you history is like. I have an excellent history but still like to keep an eye on them.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 19,082 ✭✭✭✭Random


    No, i have never been refused anything and I have a good relationship with my bank AIB. The reason I did it was to see what depth of information they were carrying about me and if any of it was incorrect. My next search will be the irish credit bureau in Clonskeagh as they hold records for all the main banks and finanacial institutions. When you apply for credit or a loan, it is in the agreement that the institution will record a search with them and check what you history is like. I have an excellent history but still like to keep an eye on them.
    Without giving me your financial or personal information, what sort of info did you get back?

    What type of notes had they written? What else is there other than your bank account transactions and any calls about your credit card?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,123 ✭✭✭stepbar


    No, i have never been refused anything and I have a good relationship with my bank AIB.

    I have an excellent history but still like to keep an eye on them.

    Well it sounds like you dont trust them. In fairness the bank doesnt hold any additional information about you that you havent already provided them with. Unless the people dealing with you are clairvoyants are something :rolleyes: For example a loan application, somebody has to make a decision on the application based on the information provided. So yeah they may write down supporting notes in order to get your loan etc approved. If you are frank and honest in your dealing you should not have any problems. The person(s) dealing with your application have to satisfy themselves that (a) you can repay the loan / have the capasity to do so and (b) that you're not goin to do a runner with the banks money. Therefore they have to make a judgement call, yeah or nea. Because its on their head if you dont satisfy a & b, and they get into **** not you. Nor does it pluck credit ratings out of the sky either. 9 times out of 10 the credit rating you have is fairly accurate (unless you are the victim of identity theft or something, which is not the banks fault).

    This notion that people have (i.e "I dont trust the bank", "The bank are trying to screw me over" etc etc) is ridiculus. The banking industry is one of the most regulated industries in Ireland. If a bank goes out of line, the regulator is down like a top of bricks. Its not in the banks interest to be screwing over customers. Ok AIB overcharging and all that, it came out into the public domain, the bank was fined and customers got their money back. Banks cant pull that **** anymore. And in fact regular audits are carried out in addition so really the bank has to be straight and honest in their dealings.

    In short, I dont see what you hoped to gain by wasting bank time searching for information that you have already provided the bank with. Ok you are entitled to the information and thats fair enough. But unless there is a specific reason (i.e a mortgage refusal etc) I dont think you should be wasting peoples time.

    BTW I dont work for AIB :)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 35 jimmy2shoes


    stepbar, i think you are going on about something that has no real meaning. someone posted on here saying that aib rip people off to get bank statements re-sent to them. no one can deny that over 2 euro a page is a rip-off. if you don't think so then yes you do work for the AIB. superscouse was pointing out that you can under data protection you can have all your statements from since you opened your bank account for 6.35 euro's, a nice little f*** you to aib, and if in future i need a statement to check some things out then i will definitely go doen this route.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,346 ✭✭✭✭KdjaCL


    I work for a company that holds this data, and we charge crazy money for storage and even crazier money for you to see or get your own files delivered. Afaik we about average for the storage prices so i can see why banks charge so much.

    kdjac


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  • Registered Users Posts: 816 ✭✭✭Cryos


    stepbar, i think you are going on about something that has no real meaning. someone posted on here saying that aib rip people off to get bank statements re-sent to them. no one can deny that over 2 euro a page is a rip-off. if you don't think so then yes you do work for the AIB. superscouse was pointing out that you can under data protection you can have all your statements from since you opened your bank account for 6.35 euro's, a nice little f*** you to aib, and if in future i need a statement to check some things out then i will definitely go doen this route.

    BOI and indeed most banks have been slow to embrace new technologys (infact alot of NT Infrastructure is still in Most banks these days as they are too tight to spend the money), so as said above alot of stuff is still on Microfiche. But this is going to change soon.

    To be honest i dont think PTSB have charged me for statements ? Then again all myne are online :)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,123 ✭✭✭stepbar


    stepbar, i think you are going on about something that has no real meaning. someone posted on here saying that aib rip people off to get bank statements re-sent to them. no one can deny that over 2 euro a page is a rip-off. if you don't think so then yes you do work for the AIB. superscouse was pointing out that you can under data protection you can have all your statements from since you opened your bank account for 6.35 euro's, a nice little f*** you to aib, and if in future i need a statement to check some things out then i will definitely go doen this route.

    It has lots of relivance. Superscouse requested info under the FOI act and got back 6inches of info. Im questioning why you would need to go to the trouble of finding out this bullcrap in the first place. Its not too hard to put away your bank statements / bank info in a folder in fairness. Its not really a rip off when you think of the amount of labour that has to go into actually pulling up the statements / info you require. Chances are that a member of branch staff may have to be pulled off from some other job for the day. Go to an architect and see how much him / her will charge per hour to for example, make revisions on a house plan. As well as that it also stops people from requesting statements willy nilly, when they hear the cost that soon changes the tune. Actually €6.35 is taking the p1ss for the amount of work involved.


    I actually work for BOI ;) and I bank with AIB (long before I joined BOI), so dont be going thinking im defending AIB.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 86 ✭✭Geek Nose


    As I didn't keep my bank statements that far back...

    And who's fault is that? Man, stupid people annoy me. He throws out his statements, and he expects the bank to bail him out for free. They're a business, and anyone with half a brain knows they charge for statement reprints.
    yer mans comments about being able to use google from his laptop are a bit irrelevant

    I agree. Totally irrelevant. What a spa.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,148 ✭✭✭✭Sangre


    stepbar, i think you are going on about something that has no real meaning. someone posted on here saying that aib rip people off to get bank statements re-sent to them. no one can deny that over 2 euro a page is a rip-off. if you don't think so then yes you do work for the AIB. superscouse was pointing out that you can under data protection you can have all your statements from since you opened your bank account for 6.35 euro's, a nice little f*** you to aib, and if in future i need a statement to check some things out then i will definitely go doen this route.
    Most people require duplicate statement for loans/mortgages with banks other than their own. They need offical bank printed statements, they can't just print it from their online banking. I would imagine the format from the Data Protection Act isn't the same as a statement (feel free to correct me).

    Anyway, banks run on some computer software dating back to the 60s. It would literally cost 10s of millions to upgrade because of transporting information, new systems, shutting down servers, lose of business etc., The bank has looked into it obviously, its not in their interests to be out of date.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 86 ✭✭Geek Nose


    Sangre wrote:
    they can't just print it from their online banking.

    They can actually, and just have the branch stamp the pages. I have done it a few times. It can be done in seconds for free at the customer service desk.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,148 ✭✭✭✭Sangre


    They can but a lot of places won't accept that.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    The reason I did it was to see what depth of information they were carrying about me and if any of it was incorrect.

    How far back did it go by the way ??


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,230 ✭✭✭Solair


    Banks computerised a long time before most other companies had even heard of computer, and before many people had even seen one.
    They are extremely slow to change systems that work as they're systems that are processing billions of euro of transactions.

    There is a massive level of validation required for a major financial system i.e. ensuring that it works reliably, does calculations correctly, stores data in accordance with best practice and with due regard to regulation.

    So in general, bank IT systems in most banks world-wide tend to be older technology and very "tried and trusted".

    Many of these machines are large UNIX-based servers or in some cases run strange operating systems like OS/2 that have disappeared.

    They tend to adapt to newer technology at the front end i.e. you'll see more modern workstations on desks, ATMs etc etc but the core sytems can be pretty old and reliable.

    It's quite possible that your statements require an archive search. Remember that until recently vast storage facilities were very expensive, and remain pretty pricy, so all your transactions from the 80s and 90s are probabally on microfilm or some other form of electronic long term storage.

    Also, banks are not generally fond of magnetic tape / disk technologies for long term archiving as the tapes degrade over time. Hence, microfilm is still popular!


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,635 ✭✭✭dotsman


    I'd be surprised if the information received via the Data Protection Act can be used instead of a Statement if using it for a loan/mortgage application.

    Solair is correct on his analysis of IT in banking. The back-end is all mainframe (PL/1, COBOL etc). AIB's Front-end is XP in Head Office locations and Linux in Branch environments.

    €2.50 per page is very cheap. The information required to produce statements from years ago is not stored in a readily available form. AIB has to store 100s of millions of transactions every single day. To access an individuals transaction history (and verify it) requires extensive data-mining.

    As as stepbar put it. If it was very cheap (or even free) everyone would be asking for duplicate statements willy nilly even if they don't need them.

    At €2.50 per page, your bank won't be making a profit on you requesting duplicates. And if you still think this is rip-off Ireland, £2.50 (€3.75 approx) per page is standard in the UK.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,267 ✭✭✭kc66


    This is the same for a records going back 6 months, not just going back years. The gf needed a 6 month statement for a mortgage application. They charged around €2.50 per page.


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