BusConnects Dublin - Big changes to Bus Network

Wheety · 12-09-2018 1:32pm

Peregrine wrote: »

If there was a metro line built along the C spine instead, we'd have you claiming that people will continue to get the long winded bus route through Chapelizod instead of walking 5 mins to get the metro.

Or that the the passenger numbers on the two Luas lines are an illusion and that everyone is actually still getting their local bus.

Habits change when better options are made available to them. We can discuss capacity issues at Chapelizod but the idea that people's commutting habits will remain set in stone even at the face of great change is pure nonsense and isn't something we should be entertaining.

The first 2 paragraphs are nonsense.

It's not going to be 'great change'. People can walk down tomorrow morning and get a bypass bus but they still get the 26.

And you're not going to 'entertain' a difference of opinion? :rolleyes:

MJohnston · 12-09-2018 1:52pm

Wheety wrote: »

Cutting it from 25, 26, 66 and 67 to one bus can't help. While I said several buses go past packed, the 4 buses above stop sometimes to allow people on in Palmerstown.

And I know you'll say everyone will just get a bypass bus under the new system and won't be on the 14. But there are large queues at the 2 stops in Palmertown before the fork every day.

I said I wouldn't be back, but just when I thought I was out, they pull me back in!

But the bolded bit is a big miscategorization of what is actually happening. It's a surface level interpretation that doesn't take into account the more subtle issues that the rest of us have mentioned.

I presume by "before the fork" you mean the Kennelsfort Road, but I already mentioned the rationale that I see there. People on that road currently use the 26 because there's no point walking to the N4 for other services - either those services already follow the exact same slower path into the city as the 26 (ie. via Chapelizod), or there's not enough frequency on the two services (25a and b) that use the quicker route via the N4 bypass instead. So, of course you're going to jump on the 26.

But in BusConnects, you'll be able to walk 5 minutes to the N4 and jump on a C-spine bus, all of which will use the quicker N4 bypass route. I believe that most Palmerstown people will be attracted to do this for two reasons, first is that as someone said, there's possibly a 10-15 minute time saving by taking a bus that uses the N4 bypass; second is that the traffic from Kennelsfort onto the N4 is bad enough that walking to the N4 is usually quicker than taking the bus that same distance.

So the 14 will have less pressure on it from Palmerstown passengers compared to the 26. And additionally, while the 26 is currently strictly a 30 minute frequency service, the 14 will have a 15 minute frequency between 7-9am and 3-6pm. So there's an increased number of buses available to the people of Palmerstown and Chapelizod.

By the way, in addition to the proposed 3 minute frequency of the C-spine routes on the N4 at Palmerstown, there will be peak-only routes for the 321, 322, 323, 324, 325, and the 326 all passing through and stopping in Palmerstown on the N4 - this will add an extra 16 buses stopping at Palmerstown between 7am and 8am during the week. So that 3 minute frequency could well end up being even better, or at least with higher capacities for passengers.

MJohnston · 12-09-2018 1:53pm

Wheety wrote: »

The first 2 paragraphs are nonsense.

It's not going to be 'great change'. People can walk down tomorrow morning and get a bypass bus but they still get the 26.

And you're not going to 'entertain' a difference of opinion? :rolleyes:

As I just pointed out in the post above this, there's no point currently in walking to the bypass, as the options there, with only 2 exceptions, go through Chapelizod too. They won't in future, so there will be much more reason to walk to the bypass.

jd · 14-09-2018 9:57pm

Hugh Cregan (NTA) confirmed to local politicians that in the next design iteration the proposed C1 will go through Sandymount Village, and not take the coast road.

Qrt · 16-09-2018 1:08pm

Does anybody know if there's any indication that the new bus corridors will have high degree speed of priority? As in similar levels to the luas, where it arrives and usually goes through without stopping or just stopping for a short period? I was on the bus to Swords yesterday and the time it spent waiting at lights was awfully high.

AlekSmart · 16-09-2018 1:14pm

jd wrote: »

Hugh Cregan (NTA) confirmed to local politicians that in the next design iteration the proposed C1 will go through Sandymount Village, and not take the coast road.

Presumably Hugh is going to finally impliment measures to eradicate the continual and,by now,historic disregard for Parking Regulations endemic to Sandymount Village ?

If he is'nt,then he can kiss goodbye to the C1 offering ANY improvement over the 1,2 & 3 routes of old

punisher5112 · 16-09-2018 1:45pm

Qrt wrote: »

Does anybody know if there's any indication that the new bus corridors will have high degree speed of priority? As in similar levels to the luas, where it arrives and usually goes through without stopping or just stopping for a short period? I was on the bus to Swords yesterday and the time it spent waiting at lights was awfully high.

This technology has been around for years but there is no push to use it.

So much could be done to prioritize buses and hold cars back to give a safe space and a clear run.

Look at rathmines, Rathgar road for example they have lights to hold cars back to allow buses out but they don't do anything but stay green for everyone.

Sam Russell · 16-09-2018 1:50pm

punisher5112 wrote: »

This technology has been around for years but there is no push to use it.

So much could be done to prioritize buses and hold cars back to give a safe space and a clear run.

Look at rathmines, Rathgar road for example they have lights to hold cars back to allow buses out but they don't do anything but stay green for everyone.

Actually, all they need to do is make it that a bus pulling out from a stop has priority absolutely, and in the event of an accident, the other driver has to prove the bus driver acted 'recklessly'. So a bus indicated to pull out causes vehicles behind to give way, just like they do for blue flashing lights.

Also, traffic lights keep green for oncoming buses, rather than changing as they arrive.

punisher5112 · 16-09-2018 1:54pm

Sam Russell wrote: »

Actually, all they need to do is make it that a bus pulling out from a stop has priority absolutely, and in the event of an accident, the other driver has to prove the bus driver acted 'recklessly'. So a bus indicated to pull out causes vehicles behind to give way, just like they do for blue flashing lights.

Also, traffic lights keep green for oncoming buses, rather than changing as they arrive.

Fully agree and I'll be honest I find the worst for no patience or not letting a bus out to be women.

It's actually got like back in the Celtic tiger where everyone is racing to get ahead to then turn right or left or block the bus from proceeding.

Shocking how little thought is given to be honest.

Qrt · 16-09-2018 2:35pm

punisher5112 wrote: »

This technology has been around for years but there is no push to use it.

So much could be done to prioritize buses and hold cars back to give a safe space and a clear run.

Look at rathmines, Rathgar road for example they have lights to hold cars back to allow buses out but they don't do anything but stay green for everyone.

Do you have a picture of those lights by any chance?

AlekSmart · 16-09-2018 2:52pm

Qrt wrote: »

Do you have a picture of those lights by any chance?

Could it be these sets of signals ?

https://www.google.com/maps/@53.3203178,-6.2682842,3a,75y,10.94h,113.69t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s1_jVCj-NTGvtxn9YDmj-RA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

It is noteworthy that,in the absence of any priority signal,a Busdriver coming to the end of the Bus Lane MUST give way to traffic on the right hand side,ie: the cars in the outside lane,as is signified by the Yield sign specific to the Bus lane.

This is Bus Priority,as Gaeilge....:)

davetherave · 16-09-2018 2:59pm

IT's in the rules of the road alright but not a law or act.

http://www.rsa.ie/Documents/Learner%20Drivers/Rules_of_the_road.pdf
Section 5: Good driving practice

You should allow signalling buses back into the stream of traffic after they
let passengers on and of

Chris_5339762 · 16-09-2018 3:16pm

AlekSmart wrote: »

Could it be these sets of signals ?

https://www.google.com/maps/@53.3203178,-6.2682842,3a,75y,10.94h,113.69t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s1_jVCj-NTGvtxn9YDmj-RA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

It is noteworthy that,in the absence of any priority signal,a Busdriver coming to the end of the Bus Lane MUST give way to traffic on the right hand side,ie: the cars in the outside lane,as is signified by the Yield sign specific to the Bus lane.

This is Bus Priority,as Gaeilge....:)

They have them in Terenure as well. I've only ever seen them red going eastbound, never once westbound.

MJohnston · 16-09-2018 7:44pm

Speaking of bus priority signals, the ones they installed on the Chapelizod N4 bypass westbound are so badly done. When you're driving up from the Kylemore Road onto the bypass, you get a flashing amber even when the bus lane on the N4 has a red light. The flashing amber is actually to indicate you need to give way to the bus lane on the slip road, not the N4, but you'd basically never know that.

The result is 90% of onramp traffic stops on the flashing amber to try and turn and look at the N4 bus lane, which is almost entirely physically impossible to see. They can make a couple of quick fixes here and solve it, but they never do.

KD345 · 16-09-2018 7:51pm

Chris_5339762 wrote: »

They have them in Terenure as well. I've only ever seen them red going eastbound, never once westbound.

Also one at Leeson Street/Burlington Road to allow route 11 pull out of the stop at the Burlington Hotel and cross three lanes. The problem is that motorists usually have the yellow box blocked, so the bus can't make any progress.

Chris_5339762 · 16-09-2018 8:55pm

And not just through people not stopping on the box. Regular motorists going up the bus lane and then blocking the box. Or taxis in the box.

punisher5112 · 16-09-2018 8:55pm

KD345 wrote: »

Also one at Leeson Street/Burlington Road to allow route 11 pull out of the stop at the Burlington Hotel and cross three lanes. The problem is that motorists usually have the yellow box blocked, so the bus can't make any progress.

At least it is in working order same outside oatlands college stillorgan

punisher5112 · 16-09-2018 9:01pm

I have emailed the council and nta about these sections and about making bus stop spaces bigger but got no answer.

Stephen15 · 16-09-2018 9:22pm

punisher5112 wrote: »

I have emailed the council and nta about these sections and about making bus stop spaces bigger but got no answer.

Bus Connects infrastructure consultation starts next month after the route consultation closes.

punisher5112 · 16-09-2018 9:46pm

Stephen15 wrote: »

Bus Connects infrastructure consultation starts next month after the route consultation closes.

I'll have to enter into that. Thanks.

schemingbohemia · 17-09-2018 12:16pm

AlekSmart wrote: »

Presumably Hugh is going to finally impliment measures to eradicate the continual and,by now,historic disregard for Parking Regulations endemic to Sandymount Village ?

If he is'nt,then he can kiss goodbye to the C1 offering ANY improvement over the 1,2 & 3 routes of old

Well, presumably the Garda balaclavas are stopping them from seeing this so nothing ever gets done. Not exactly within the NTA's purview unfortunately.

Bray Head · 17-09-2018 1:19pm

Bus Connects have paid for a four-page spread in the Bray People.

It's all about Bus Connects in general, not the changes for north-east Wicklow.

This publicity is pretty cheap, but it does show that the NTA are making an effort.

AlekSmart · 17-09-2018 1:25pm

schemingbohemia wrote: »

Well, presumably the Garda balaclavas are stopping them from seeing this so nothing ever gets done. Not exactly within the NTA's purview unfortunately.

The more the better !

It is long past the time to remove this type of basic Traffic Law enforcement from the Gardai,who appear either unwilling or unable to perform it.

Get the semi catatonic Local Authorities back in the loop and force them to recruit and allocate Full Time Staff to parking control.

Use the readily available electronic means and issue Fixed Penalties as required,no more of this on-street negotiation as to what constitutes illegal or obstructive parking....Oh,and I almost forgot install a lot more kerbside barriers to frustrate the "Just nippin in for a Cappuccino" regulars !

Bray Head · 17-09-2018 1:26pm

Local authorites are not competent.

AGS are not interested.

What is needed is a dedicated transport police.

AlekSmart · 17-09-2018 1:56pm

punisher5112 wrote: »

I have emailed the council and nta about these sections and about making bus stop spaces bigger but got no answer.

Bus Stop specifications will become a far greater issue when Busconnects commences,the maintenance of even headway demands on-street layover space,and interconnecting services alre require it.

Currently,there are very few Bus Stops which meet the Dept of the Environment's own detailed criteria....

http://trafficsigns.ie/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/07-traffic-signs-manual-2010-chapter-7-road-markings.pdf

RRM 030:
Bus Stop Markings

7.7
Bus and Tram Markings

BUS STOP (RRM 030)
7.7.1
Bus Stop Markings, RRM 030, shall only be used to indicate the location of a bus stop, where they supplement a kerbside upright
Bus Stop Sign (RUS 031), or to indicate the location of a bus
stand.They indicate the area within which vehicles other than
buses may not stop or park.

7.7.2
It is important that buses should be able to dock parallel to and
close to the kerb, to assist passengers, particularly those with a
mobility handicap, to board and alight with ease.This can frequently be made difficult, especially in urban areas, by a variety of factors,some of which may be overcome by careful design.
7.7.3
The major factor in achieving parallel docking at a bus stop is the
entry and exit distance required. At a typical roadside bus stop, a
conventional 12m European standard bus requires a minimum
overall clearance of:D 37m of unimpeded access (see Figure 7.28);
an articulated bus needs 49m. Vehicles parked or loading adjacent to the bus stop can result in buses failing to achieve parallel docking or having to stop too far from the kerb, requiring passengers to step into the carriageway to board and alight.

There yiz have it...from the Horses mouth so to speak.

schemingbohemia · 17-09-2018 5:13pm

AlekSmart wrote: »

The more the better !

It is long past the time to remove this type of basic Traffic Law enforcement from the Gardai,who appear either unwilling or unable to perform it.

Get the semi catatonic Local Authorities back in the loop and force them to recruit and allocate Full Time Staff to parking control.

Use the readily available electronic means and issue Fixed Penalties as required,no more of this on-street negotiation as to what constitutes illegal or obstructive parking....Oh,and I almost forgot install a lot more kerbside barriers to frustrate the "Just nippin in for a Cappuccino" regulars !

Totally agree. The number of untaxed, uninsured, non-NCT'd vehicles I see every lunchtime whilst walking around would pay for the staff costs if the LA actually brought back traffic wardens.

ILBondo · 19-09-2018 9:46am

https://dublininquirer.com/2018/09/18/david-so-what-s-the-story-with-busconnects

Sense finally spoken by a media outlet.

schemingbohemia · 19-09-2018 10:50am

Yeah, it's a great article. Very interesting site generally.

CatInABox · 19-09-2018 11:31am

ILBondo wrote: »

https://dublininquirer.com/2018/09/18/david-so-what-s-the-story-with-busconnects

Sense finally spoken by a media outlet.

Dublin Inquirer have run a good few positive articles on BusConnects now, very impressive on how balanced they are. A few other outlets should take note of how to accurately portray the various pros and cons of an idea

jd · 19-09-2018 1:27pm

Fianna Fail doing exactly what I expected them to do

https://twitter.com/JohnLahart/status/1042387123373047810

https://data.oireachtas.ie/ie/oireachtas/parliamentaryBusiness/orderPaper/dail/2018/2018-09-19_dail-order-paper-wed_en.pdf

BusConnects Dublin - Big changes to Bus Network

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