Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Why I'm taking my rental off the market

1…89111314

Comments

  • #302
    Bluefoam
    Registered Users Posts: 7,694 ✭✭✭Bluefoam


    the aggressive nature of this thread and the lack of empathy for the OP is disgraceful. I think people need to have a good hard look at themselves and get off their feckin' pedestals.


  • #303
    Lux23
    Registered Users Posts: 7,134 ✭✭✭Lux23


    I reckon I've spent about €80,000 on rent since 2005 - my current landlord has gotten nearly €30,000 from me. He moans about bills, taxes, his debts etc. and then says, oh I won't be contactable for the next few weeks as I will be in France for a wedding and then on to Thailand for two weeks. While we're paying him a grand a month for a rat infested hole just so we can get the money together for a deposit for our own place. And we're the lucky ones - it could be two grand!!!

    Do any landlords have empathy for their tenants and their experience of our crappy housing system?


  • #304
    davo10
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,926 ✭✭✭davo10


    Lux23 wrote: »
    I reckon I've spent about €80,000 on rent since 2005 - my current landlord has gotten nearly €30,000 from me. He moans about bills, taxes, his debts etc. and then says, oh I won't be contactable for the next few weeks as I will be in France for a wedding and then on to Thailand for two weeks. While we're paying him a grand a month for a rat infested hole just so we can get the money together for a deposit for our own place. And we're the lucky ones - it could be two grand!!!

    Do any landlords have empathy for their tenants and their experience of our crappy housing system?

    Yes I do have empathy to you, you shouldn't have to live in substandard accommodation.

    You said its rat infested, have you contacted a pest control company? You should take a case to the RTB.


  • #305
    Lux23
    Registered Users Posts: 7,134 ✭✭✭Lux23


    davo10 wrote: »
    Yes I do have empathy to you, you shouldn't have to live in substandard accommodation.

    You said its rat infested, have you contacted a pest control company? You should take a case to the RTB.

    The landlord catches them himself. If we contacted a pest control company, we would end up paying because he does what he can to deal with it. They always come back this time of year - four years in a row!

    We need to stay here to save for our deposit, there is no way we would find somewhere the same price convenient to our jobs so we just have to put up with it until we have that money. Hopefully not for too much longer.


  • #306
    august12
    Registered Users Posts: 1,275 ✭✭✭august12


    Lux23 wrote:
    The landlord catches them himself. If we contacted a pest control company, we would end up paying because he does what he can to deal with it. They always come back this time of year - four years in a row!

    This is appalling, I can't understand landlords expecting some one to live in a house they wouldn't inhabit themselves and they certainly wouldn't live in what you have described.


  • Advertisement
  • #307
    Lux23
    Registered Users Posts: 7,134 ✭✭✭Lux23


    august12 wrote: »
    This is appalling, I can't understand landlords expecting some one to live in a house they wouldn't inhabit themselves and they certainly wouldn't live in what you have described.

    Really? Doesn't surprise me in the slightest. That's what renting for 13 years teaches you!


  • #308
    Amirani
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,521 Mod ✭✭✭✭Amirani


    Fol20 wrote: »
    Sleeper, the general consensus so far is that you do include interest when trying to determine if its a viable venture. I understand what you are trying to say however when your actually a ll, All your going to consider is how much do i have after everything else is deducted incl interest, capital value when it is sold and or risks attached to it. I still think your playing with words/terms and over complicating something which is quite simple. Your the first person i have ever heard say that you disregard interest when its one of the most important factors in this industry.

    I think you were all getting crossed wires here and none of you were wrong as such.

    Interest expense is not a typical business expense, it's not included in operating expenses and as such wont form part of the operating profit/loss of a business or its Earnings Before Interest, Tax, Depreciation and Amortisation (EBITDA). This is what Sleeper is getting at and is correct. When valuing the underlying performance or worth of a business, interest isn't really a factor.

    All that said, in your bottom line/net profit, interest definitely is an expense and does have an impact. A portion of this is obviously tax deductible for landlords (it's 100% for regular businesses). When you're assessing how good an investment a property is, it's really just the net profit that's important to you, and as such interest expense should be a consideration.


  • #309
    DubCount
    Registered Users Posts: 1,064 ✭✭✭DubCount


    Landlords providing sub-standard accommodation, Tenants living rent free for months and milking the system, Licensees being forced to live by crazy house rules. All of these deserve criticism and action taken to help those on the receiving end. From a Tenant point of view, the only solution is more rental supply, because then if you find yourself in a rat infested house - no problem, move to somewhere that isn't rat infested. The only way you are going to get more rental supply, is addressing the eviction process. The OP story is a tragedy for him/her, but ultimately its the reason tenants are having to put up with higher rents and poor conditions.


  • #310
    Lux23
    Registered Users Posts: 7,134 ✭✭✭Lux23


    DubCount wrote: »
    Landlords providing sub-standard accommodation, Tenants living rent free for months and milking the system, Licensees being forced to live by crazy house rules. All of these deserve criticism and action taken to help those on the receiving end. From a Tenant point of view, the only solution is more rental supply, because then if you find yourself in a rat infested house - no problem, move to somewhere that isn't rat infested. The only way you are going to get more rental supply, is addressing the eviction process. The OP story is a tragedy for him/her, but ultimately its the reason tenants are having to put up with higher rents and poor conditions.

    Explain how that would work exactly?


  • #311
    davo10
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,926 ✭✭✭davo10


    Lux23 wrote: »
    Explain how that would work exactly?

    Making it easier to remove errant tenants would free up more rental accommodation and make investment in buy-to-let properties more attractive. No one is buying properties to rent out at the moment, it's just to risky.

    If the op could have gotten this tenant out quickly when he/she stopped paying rent, loses would have been substantially limited. Also, the op is lucky the tenant left, if he had to remove the tenant it could have taken up to a year.

    https://www.irishtimes.com/business/personal-finance/household-deposits-reach-15-year-high-1.3625654?mode=amp


  • Advertisement
  • #312
    Lux23
    Registered Users Posts: 7,134 ✭✭✭Lux23


    davo10 wrote: »
    Making it easier to remove errant tenants would free up more rental accommodation and make investment in buy-to-let properties more attractive.

    I don't believe tenancy laws are what's really influencing investor decisions not to purchase properties to let - it's the low return on investment and high tax rates. Unless you're a cash buyer, you're not making much of a profit after maintenance and your tax bill is paid. The risk of getting stuck with a dodgy tenant is probably a risk worth taking if the profits are high, which is why people are jumping into short-term lettings.


  • #313
    Claw Hammer
    Registered Users Posts: 6,149 ✭✭✭Claw Hammer


    Lux23 wrote: »
    I don't believe tenancy laws are what's really influencing investor decisions not to purchase properties to let - it's the low return on investment and high tax rates. Unless you're a cash buyer, you're not making much of a profit after maintenance and your tax bill is paid. The risk of getting stuck with a dodgy tenant is probably a risk worth taking if the profits are high, which is why people are jumping into short-term lettings.

    There are people leaving properties idle because of the tenancy laws. There are people getting piss poor returns on large deposits in the banks who might buy a property and let it out if it wasn't for the tenancy laws. Fear of not being able to remove a tenant is one of the biggest deterrents there is to being a landlord.


  • #314
    Fol20
    Registered Users Posts: 3,623 ✭✭✭Fol20


    Lux23 wrote: »
    I don't believe tenancy laws are what's really influencing investor decisions not to purchase properties to let - it's the low return on investment and high tax rates. Unless you're a cash buyer, you're not making much of a profit after maintenance and your tax bill is paid. The risk of getting stuck with a dodgy tenant is probably a risk worth taking if the profits are high, which is why people are jumping into short-term lettings.

    Their jumping into short term lettings due to tenancy laws coupled with potential extra earning. It’s not one or the other. It’s both. It is about risk mitigation and several ll are leaving the market due to tenancy legislation being completely one sided


  • #315
    Loves_lorries
    Site Banned Posts: 272 ✭✭Loves_lorries


    I entered into a ten year lease with a local authority a few months ago for a house, highly recommend it, no dealings with tenants and after six months, I'm only responsible for structural issues. The council were very reasonable in terms of the snag list they gave me.

    Option for those sick of conventional let perhaps?


  • #316
    amcalester
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,121 ✭✭✭amcalester


    Loves_lorries wrote: »
    I entered into a ten year lease with a local authority a few months ago for a house, highly recommend it, no dealings with tenants and after six months, I'm only responsible for structural issues. The council were very reasonable in terms of the snag list they gave me.

    Option for those sick of conventional let perhaps?

    Did you get market rate?


  • #317
    Fol20
    Registered Users Posts: 3,623 ✭✭✭Fol20


    amcalester wrote: »
    Did you get market rate?

    You won’t get market rate for those as the government manage everything and you just get a cash every month. I would be interest to see what you got though. I would expect 80pc of market rate maybe


  • #318
    amcalester
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,121 ✭✭✭amcalester


    Fol20 wrote: »
    You won’t get market rate for those as the government manage everything and you just get a cash every month. I would be interest to see what you got though. I would expect 80pc of market rate maybe

    Ah yeah, I get that. Was actually wondering how close to market rate the poster got.


  • #319
    Claw Hammer
    Registered Users Posts: 6,149 ✭✭✭Claw Hammer


    One of the big drawbacks as well is that damages only covered up to the value of the deposit.


  • #320
    Loves_lorries
    Site Banned Posts: 272 ✭✭Loves_lorries


    Fol20 wrote: »
    You won’t get market rate for those as the government manage everything and you just get a cash every month. I would be interest to see what you got though. I would expect 80pc of market rate maybe

    I'm getting 80% of market rate but I argued for an altogether unrealistically high reference rate and got it. They are so keen for properties, they must have been willing to accept my high figure.

    Risk of bad tenant and no power to evict means I'll never do conventional let again, did it for number of years on property in good area, this is a low value house in disadvantaged area.


  • #321
    DubCount
    Registered Users Posts: 1,064 ✭✭✭DubCount


    Lux23 wrote: »
    I don't believe tenancy laws are what's really influencing investor decisions not to purchase properties to let

    The number 1 issue negatively impacting investment in long term residential letting, is the risk of a bad tenant not paying and/or wrecking the property, with no consequence on the tenant. Tax, interest rates on buy2let mortgages, unfairness of RPZ, negative press commentary...... are all way behind.

    Unless this is fixed, you will never improve the rental market and provide good tenants with better quality at better prices, because it is killing supply and competition. I find it incredible that the biggest problem in the rental market, is never mentioned by Threshold or other similar organisations. This could be fixed with pretty much no cost to the state, but never gets a whisper.


  • Advertisement
  • #322
    Loves_lorries
    Site Banned Posts: 272 ✭✭Loves_lorries


    DubCount wrote: »
    The number 1 issue negatively impacting investment in long term residential letting, is the risk of a bad tenant not paying and/or wrecking the property, with no consequence on the tenant. Tax, interest rates on buy2let mortgages, unfairness of RPZ, negative press commentary...... are all way behind.

    Unless this is fixed, you will never improve the rental market and provide good tenants with better quality at better prices, because it is killing supply and competition. I find it incredible that the biggest problem in the rental market, is never mentioned by Threshold or other similar organisations. This could be fixed with pretty much no cost to the state, but never gets a whisper.

    The media is gratuitously biased against landlords so the phenomenon of rogue tenants is grossly underreported.

    The high tax rates are not a huge deal for me, taxes are high here no matter what kind of assets you're working with.

    I've 84k staked with my sole current residential property right now, no way would I want a property with real value with the sword of damoclese hanging over it in this environment.


  • #323
    Loves_lorries
    Site Banned Posts: 272 ✭✭Loves_lorries


    DubCount wrote: »
    The number 1 issue negatively impacting investment in long term residential letting, is the risk of a bad tenant not paying and/or wrecking the property, with no consequence on the tenant. Tax, interest rates on buy2let mortgages, unfairness of RPZ, negative press commentary...... are all way behind.

    Unless this is fixed, you will never improve the rental market and provide good tenants with better quality at better prices, because it is killing supply and competition. I find it incredible that the biggest problem in the rental market, is never mentioned by Threshold or other similar organisations. This could be fixed with pretty much no cost to the state, but never gets a whisper.

    Threshold are left wing activists who would have an anti landlord mission statement if four bed houses in rathmines were 400 euro per month


  • #324
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Loves_lorries wrote: »
    I entered into a ten year lease with a local authority a few months ago for a house, highly recommend it, no dealings with tenants and after six months, I'm only responsible for structural issues. The council were very reasonable in terms of the snag list they gave me.

    Option for those sick of conventional let perhaps?

    You are still in the same boat when it comes to over holding and tenant damage. AFAIK.


  • #325
    the_syco
    Registered Users Posts: 37,295 ✭✭✭✭the_syco


    Loves_lorries wrote: »
    I entered into a ten year lease with a local authority a few months ago for a house, highly recommend it, no dealings with tenants and after six months, I'm only responsible for structural issues. The council were very reasonable in terms of the snag list they gave me.

    Option for those sick of conventional let perhaps?
    Section 8 from The Landlords HAP booklet
    A local authority may suspend or stop HAP payments if the HAP tenant fails to make the required weekly rent contribution to the local authority.
    If the tenant stops paying, you will not be informed that they stopped paying.
    You will not be informed that you will no longer get rent from the council.
    And it will be up to you to evict them.


  • #326
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭[Deleted User]


    Councils would have no problem in getting houses for tenants at 80% market (+ inflation index) for 10 year leases if they guaranteed rents and undertook, at the end of the 10 years, to return the property in the condition that it was given to them.


  • #327
    Loves_lorries
    Site Banned Posts: 272 ✭✭Loves_lorries


    beauf wrote: »
    You are still in the same boat when it comes to over holding and tenant damage. AFAIK.

    Local authority are my tenant.


  • #328
    Loves_lorries
    Site Banned Posts: 272 ✭✭Loves_lorries


    the_syco wrote: »
    Section 8 from The Landlords HAP booklet

    If the tenant stops paying, you will not be informed that they stopped paying.
    You will not be informed that you will no longer get rent from the council.
    And it will be up to you to evict them.

    Your confusing the HAP scheme with the long term lease scheme.

    My rent is guaranteed even the place is empty during periods. I've never met who lives in my house, I don't even know their name.


  • #329
    Browney7
    Registered Users Posts: 3,098 ✭✭✭Browney7


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Councils would have no problem in getting houses for tenants at 80% market (+ inflation index) for 10 year leases if they guaranteed rents and undertook, at the end of the 10 years, to return the property in the condition that it was given to them.

    And that would be very awful value for the taxpayer/exchequer. The government can borrow cash for ten years at sub 1% - you're advocating they guarantee a rental yield of 5% and have no asset at the end of the ten years.


  • #330
    Loves_lorries
    Site Banned Posts: 272 ✭✭Loves_lorries


    Browney7 wrote: »
    And that would be very awful value for the taxpayer/exchequer. The government can borrow cash for ten years at sub 1% - you're advocating they guarantee a rental yield of 5% and have no asset at the end of the ten years.

    My rental yield is 12% gross, 10% after I pay insurance, property tax and a deduction of one month's rent for repairs (assuming it's no higher on average each year than a months rent)


  • Advertisement
  • #331
    Browney7
    Registered Users Posts: 3,098 ✭✭✭Browney7


    Loves_lorries wrote: »
    My rental yield is 12% gross, 10% after I pay insurance, property tax and a deduction of one month's rent for repairs (assuming it's no higher on average each year than a months rent)

    A very healthy yield in the low interest rate environment. 12% gross on what you paid or 12% on what it's currently worth?


Advertisement