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'Ireland is the most corrupt country in the Western world'

124

Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 796 ✭✭✭Sycamore Tree


    I think Ireland is certainly very corrupt - especially the Garda force but also in Planning and Public appointments. But it is far from the most corrupt country in the western world.


  • Registered Users Posts: 32,972 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    Augeo wrote: »
    Ok, the claim that Ireland is corrupt was mentioned to be a fallacy pushed by fringe elements in society.


    I agree with that and reckon who is doing it is .........





    The lefties I'm referring to aren't on the scratch, they are politicians, SF & Co.
    They have some power, they have to be facilitated etc as part of the democratic society.

    You sure you undesrtand what we're talking about? Because it seems "corrupt" to you is anyone you disagree with.

    Of course SF are being facilitated - they're a political party representing a proportion of the population - it's their job to make sure they and their voters are facilitated!! If they weren't doing it, they'd be corrupt. Just because someone uses their power in order to represent people, or has a left-leaning outlook politically speaking, does not define corruption.

    Or are you just against the idea of democracy in the first place?

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



  • Posts: 17,728 ✭✭✭✭[Deleted User]


    You sure you undesrtand what we're talking about? Because it seems "corrupt" to you is anyone you disagree with.

    Not at all, I can't fathom why you think that.
    I believe the speel in the OP is indeed a falacy pushed by fringe elements in our society who I reckon are lefties

    .......The whole point of a politics is to facilitate people via the act of governance. Just because someone uses their power in order to represent people, or has a left-leaning outlook politically speaking, does not define corruption!

    Or are you just against the idea of democracy in the first place?

    I do think that corruption is rife in politics :)

    That can be true without Ireland being the most corrupt country in Western Europe.

    Fair enough if you are happy that lefties want loads of wasters to live happily ever after from taxes that could and should be put to better use, I don't agree with that :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 32,972 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    Augeo wrote: »
    Not at all, I can't fathom why you think that.
    I believe the speel in the OP is indeed a falacy pushed by fringe elements in our society who I reckon are lefties




    I do think that corruption is rife in politics :)

    That can be true without Ireland being the most corrupt country in Western Europe.

    Fair enough if you are happy that lefties want loads of wasters to live happily ever after from taxes that could and should be put to better use, I don't agree with that :)

    Em... kind of proves my point, thanks.

    You can be against the left (although it would be more intelligent to be against specific policies rather than an enitre spectrum) and you can be anti-dole; but to define corruption is such is absolute bollocks.

    Also, pretty much every country in the top five or so when it comes to anti-corruption is leftist (by Irish standards), so even if you were defining it that way, you'd still be massively wrong.

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



  • Posts: 17,728 ✭✭✭✭[Deleted User]


    Em... kind of proves my point, thanks.

    Not at all, unless your point is that you are obtuse and on a leftys are great rant.

    Taking from someone who earned what they have and giving it to a waster is corrupt IMO. You won't find a lefty agreeing with that.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    The Corruptions Perceptions Index for 2017, which ranks countries from least corrupt (New Zealand) to most corrupt (Somalia) placed Ireland at #19. So we're more corrupt than a number of other Western countries, including Denmark, Finland, Norway, Switzerland, Sweden, Canada, the Netherlands, the UK, Germany, Iceland, Austria, Belgium, and the USA.

    But other countries like France, Portugal, Poland, Spain, Italy, and Greece rank lower than Ireland.

    While we're not the most corrupt country in the Western world, Ireland's reputation has been damaged by cronyism between politicians and financial institutions that led to a financial crisis, corruption in the planning system, numerous scandals affecting the Gardai, controversy around the sale of NAMA properties, and so on. We could certainly be doing a lot better.
    the US only ranks so well because they have legalised what any other nation would label totally corrupt i.e. their system of political lobbying


  • Registered Users Posts: 32,972 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    Augeo wrote: »
    Not at all, unless your point is that you are obtuse and on a leftys are great rant.

    My point is you don't undertand what corruption is, and this post proves it.
    Augeo wrote: »
    Not at all, I can't fathom why you think that.
    I believe the speel in the OP is indeed a falacy pushed by fringe elements in our society who I reckon are lefties




    I do think that corruption is rife in politics :)

    That can be true without Ireland being the most corrupt country in Western Europe.

    Fair enough if you are happy that lefties want loads of wasters to live happily ever after from taxes that could and should be put to better use, I don't agree with that :)
    Taking from someone who earned what they have and giving it to a waster is corrupt IMO. You won't find a lefty agreeing with that.

    Proven inconsequential in the context of this debate.

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,279 ✭✭✭The Bishop Basher


    archer22 wrote: »
    The most worrying thing about corruption in Ireland is that there is a lot of admiration for it.
    Even giving those involved in it grudgingly respectful and warm terms like "cute hoor".

    This is something you do not see in other countries with a corruption problem..the corrupt might be able to operate there, but they do not have the respect of the ordinary people.

    Completely agree..

    Sure weren't Charlie and Bertie great lads altogether...

    We're a bunch of naive and gullible gob****es when it comes to elections.


  • Registered Users Posts: 16,106 ✭✭✭✭Grayson


    is there corruption in Ireland? Yeah sure there is. However anyone who thinks it's the most corrupt country in the western world has never seen italy. :D


  • Posts: 17,728 ✭✭✭✭[Deleted User]


    My point is you don't undertand what corruption is, and this post proves it.
    ..........


    No, it doesn't.
    Just because you say so on a forum doesn't make it true :) You aren't Judge Judy :)



    ...Proven inconsequential in the context of this debate.

    Not at all, good (ish) attempt at shoehorning though.

    How social welfare fraud (wasters receiving JSA etc etc isn't considered corruption I can't fathom.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,471 ✭✭✭EdgeCase


    It has issues with corruption, but they’re not off to scale by any means. I’d see Ireland as somewhere with a lot of new transparency and a general intolerance of corruption that’s growing a lot in recent years.

    Ireland has plenty of examples of showing it was willing to stick to the rule of law against major corporations - see: Apple planning case and plenty of others.

    There’s no question but that some of the systems need root and branch reform, both for the public good and even their own good. I mean it must be very undermining of Garda morale for example to have all of those issues in the background.

    You'll always get scandals and individual or small groups of people behaving badly within any organisation. The key is that the structures and systems within the organisation are both properly designed and thought out to ensure that they can deal with it when it does occur and that they're beyond repute and totally transparent.

    You can't just assume that people will always behave in the national interest and I think we've been overreliant on an assumption that that is always the case in a whole load of areas. You can see it on an extreme level in the US presidency at the moment.

    The system is making assumptions about the motives and ability of office holders being absolutely noble and has very few real measures to deal with a presidency gone rogue.

    The areas where you will always get corruption risks are where there's unaccountable power be it a president, a police officer or a local bureaucrat stamping forms. You need accountable systems.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,341 ✭✭✭✭rossie1977


    the US only ranks so well because they have legalised what any other nation would label totally corrupt i.e. their system of political lobbying

    Yes the US would be the most corrupt in the western world were it not for that. Politicians over there are bought and sold for. The Kochs paid Paul Ryan $500,000 just days after the Trump tax bill was passed.

    There is no need for brown envelopes under the desk in us politics as its all out in the open and legal.


  • Registered Users Posts: 32,972 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    Augeo wrote: »
    No, it doesn't.
    Just because you say so on a forum doesn't make it true :) You aren't Judge Judy :)






    Not at all, good (ish) attempt at shoehorning though.

    How social welfare fraud (wasters receiving JSA etc etc isn't considered corruption I can't fathom.

    Delt with. Gave you factual definition. Nothing to do with my opinion. It;s what the word means. Here it is again.
    Again, shoe-horning.

    Corruption is abuse of power. Meaning you have to have power in the first place in order to be corrupted. And those in power can only be corrupted by someone who has influence or money to offer.

    In other words, not those on the dole.

    QED. Done here. Take it to the abolish-the-dole thread,

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



  • Posts: 17,728 ✭✭✭✭[Deleted User]


    ...... absolute bollocks.

    ..........

    I missed this edit.
    4 mins after you posted so easy to do.

    You seem a tad agitated. Chill Judy, chill.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,471 ✭✭✭EdgeCase


    You have to remember those corruption indices are about perception rather than any measurable reality.

    If you'd asked people about the Catholic Church in the 1950s your have had stories of saintly nuns and general loveliness. Perceptions can be very surface deep and they are highly influenced by culture and access to information.


  • Posts: 17,728 ✭✭✭✭[Deleted User]


    D.....


    QED......,

    Again, you aren't Judge Judy :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,739 ✭✭✭scamalert


    Ireland has its fare share of corruption but public also closes its eyes to it, most take it as it comes. Public sector is the worst and the best for those to make money as its cash cow with all the funds of EU and taxes few manage to rake.


    That aside if you talk guards are bad you never left the country, plenty of way worse goverments and corruption all across EU not to mention states etc, country is bad but on its own level compared to other countries Ireland is a saint.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,471 ✭✭✭EdgeCase


    I think the main issue is about complacency and I think that's changed a lot.
    People don't stand for lack of transparency these days and I think that's why you're seeing the scandals finally emerge into the light.

    Present day Irish culture (and this has been measured scientifically) is actually not very deferential to power or hierarchy. So these things are challenged.

    It's noteworthy that the most complained about organisations are all very old and originate in a different era of Ireland.

    The management structures in the Guards for example evolved from the old RIC as did the RUC. The RUC was scrutinised and drastically resigned as the PSNI as a knock on of the peace process up North. The same didn't happen south of the border.

    The health system gets complained about a lot too and again it's made up of unaccountable trusts and "voluntary" sector agencies, almost entirely state funded and funded from insurance premia, yet highly unaccountable.
    Again, it's a vestage of the 19th century and in many cases old Poor Law type organisations that were allows to evolved rather than ever facing serious reform.

    Even the planning system issues came down to a total lack of accountability. The structures are or were all wrong.

    We need to keep being critical and putting political pressure on to ensure that all of this stuff is reformed and made for purpose in the modern world.

    I don't see why Ireland shouldn't be leading the tables on anti corruption. We have all the resources and motivations to be doing similarly well to New Zealand or Denmark on this stuff.


  • Registered Users Posts: 32,972 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    EdgeCase wrote: »
    I think the main issue is about complacency and I think that's changed a lot.
    People don't stand for lack of transparency these days and I think that's why you're seeing the scandals finally emerge into the light.

    Present day Irish culture (and this has been measured scientifically) is actually not very deferential to power or hierarchy. So these things are challenged.

    It's noteworthy that the most complained about organisations are all very old and originate in a different era of Ireland.

    The management structures in the Guards for example evolved from the old RIC as did the RUC. The RUC was scrutinised and drastically resigned as the PSNI as a knock on of the peace process up North. The same didn't happen south of the border.

    The health system gets complained about a lot too and again it's made up of unaccountable trusts and "voluntary" sector agencies, almost entirely state funded and funded from insurance premia, yet highly unaccountable.
    Again, it's a vestage of the 19th century and in many cases old Poor Law type organisations that were allows to evolved rather than ever facing serious reform.

    Even the planning system issues came down to a total lack of accountability. The structures are or were all wrong.

    We need to keep being critical and putting political pressure on to ensure that all of this stuff is reformed and made for purpose in the modern world.

    I don't see why Ireland shouldn't be leading the tables on anti corruption. We have all the resources and motivations to be doing similarly well to New Zealand or Denmark on this stuff.

    True - since Fianna Fail imploded it's been a lot harder for corrupt politicians to get away with things.

    With the guards, again - a lot more things are being reported it would seem, making them think twice.

    As to why we're not leading the tables - well, apparently it's the guards (again) and a general lack of comfort amongst potential whilstleblowers.
    Full details here:
    https://www.transparency.org/news/pressrelease/you_are_here_transparency_international_ireland_publishes_speak_up_report_2

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,831 ✭✭✭RobMc59


    I`m not Irish and I`ve never heard any stories about Ireland being a corrupt country,on the contrary,Ireland has a good reputation-in regards to the allegations about the Church-well that`s the same in all countries...


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  • Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    Least we forget - here are just some of the major corruption scandals and their aftermath in the last 30 years

    In 1995 Denis O'Brien was suspected of bribing Fine Gael government TD and Minister for Communications Michael Lowry. The license procurement, which ultimately made O'Brien one of the richest men in Ireland, was proven to be corrupt in an investigation by the Moriarty Tribunal in 1997.

    The McCracken Tribunal was an inquiry into the financial affairs of politicians Charles Haughey and Michael Lowry. It started in February 1997 to investigate reports of secret payments by Ben Dunne to former  Taoiseach,  Charles Haughey and former cabinet minister Michael Lowry. A report from the Tribunal found that Haughey had given untrue evidence under oath and that Lowry was knowingly assisted by Dunne in evading tax. As a result of the findings and revelation of substantial funds in secret Ansbacher accounts, owned by Haughey, the new Ahern Government established a more extensive follow-up, the Moriarty Tribunal to investigate the financial affairs of the two politicians.

    The Mahon Tribunal. The tribunal ran from November 1997 to March 2012 and was the longest running and most expensive public inquiry ever held in the Republic of Ireland. This inquiry was to investigate allegations of corrupt payments to politicians regarding political decisions and  planning permissions  and land rezoning issues in the 1990s in the Dublin County Council area.  Findings of corruption were made against 11 councillors, due to court proceedings only 6 were named 


    The FÁS expenses scandal happened in Ireland in November/December 2008. The scandal first emerged in June 2008 when the Dáil was informed that gardaí were investigating the alleged misappropriate use of funds by a senior executive within FÁS. A number of high profile resignations followed after revelations that FÁS executives spent hundreds of thousands of euro belonging to the company on lavish holidays to the United States, which included first-class travel and expensive rounds of golf.

    The Morris Tribunal in 2002 was a public inquiry to address allegations of the 1990s and early 2000s against the Garda Síochána. Subjects explored included suggestions of corrupt and dishonest policing in County Donegal but its recommendations and conclusions have more widespread consequences and importance.it investigated the case of Frank McBrearty Snr from Co Donegal was the victim of harassment following the death of Richie Barron. He was awarded nearly €2.5 million euro in compensation by the Irish High Court.


    In 2014, material revealed by two Garda Síochána whistleblowers, Maurice McCabe and John Wilson, as well as the handling of the material and of the whistleblowers, led directly to the resignation of Ireland's then Minister for Justice and Equality, Alan Shatter. It was also part of the background leading up to the resignation of the Garda Commissioner, Martin Callinan. It was also part of the reason for the retirement of his successor Nóirín O'Sullivan.

    In the period 2009- 2017 it was revealed that Gardaí had exaggerated the number of breath tests carried out by 1.45 million over a seven-year period, a report found that 3,498,400 breath tests were recorded on the Garda’s Pulse computer system, when only 2,040,179 were recorded on alcohol testing devices.This represents a discrepancy of 1,458,221 breath tests.

    A number of former executives of Anglo Irish Bank were charged in July 2012 with unlawfully helping a group of investors to buy shares in the lender in 2008, falsely inflating the share price before the bank was nationalised in 2009. The bank later collapsed, a key reason Dublin was forced to accept a €67.5bn bailout from the EU and International Monetary Fund.

    Also Seán FitzPatrick head of Anglo Irish Bank from 1986 until 2008, resigned after it emerged he had taken secret loans worth €155 million from the bank, hiding them from auditors for 8 years. He later defaulted on these loans due to the Global Recession and has since been unable to repay his debts, although he retired from his position with a pension of €4 million a year

    And so it goes on ...

    And this is only a partial list and notably excludes those who were not caught or where corruption remains uninvestigated.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,667 ✭✭✭Hector Bellend


    Have a corrupt ****


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,861 ✭✭✭donspeekinglesh


    the political lobbying system in the US is mind boggling when you look into it. Companies literally pay for legislation.

    In some cases they even write it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,341 ✭✭✭✭rossie1977


    gozunda wrote: »
    Least we forget - here are just some of the major corruption scandals and their aftermath in the last 30 years

    Nobody is saying there was no corruption in Ireland, but let's just compare to say New Jersey since 2000.

    Between 2000 and 2010 almost 150 of the states senators, mayor's, county executives and council members were arrested and charged with corruption.

    A investigation found that New Jersey government spent $42 million so far this decade to cover up some 200 claims into deaths, physical abuse and sexual misconduct at the hands of rogue police officers.

    Chris Christie the former governer was involved in numerous incidents like Bridgegate, closing all beaches to public while he and his family were photographed on one of said closed beaches. A member of his team was charged with bribing an airline to fly direct to South Carolina so that he could get quicker access to his vacation home.


  • Registered Users Posts: 16,500 ✭✭✭✭DEFTLEFTHAND


    Italy must be the most corrupt country in Europe.

    The south is practically run by the mob. They infiltrate all sorts of high level commerce and public institutions.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,116 ✭✭✭archer22


    I think what happened to Maurice McCabe and other honest people who tried to expose corruption in Ireland tells you more about the dept and extent of it here than any "corruption index".


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 796 ✭✭✭Sycamore Tree


    gozunda wrote: »
    Least we forget - here are just some of the major corruption scandals and their aftermath in the last 30 years

    In 1995 Denis O'Brien was suspected of bribing Fine Gael government TD and Minister for Communications Michael Lowry. The license procurement, which ultimately made O'Brien one of the richest men in Ireland, was proven to be corrupt in an investigation by the Moriarty Tribunal in 1997.

    The McCracken Tribunal was an inquiry into the financial affairs of politicians Charles Haughey and Michael Lowry. It started in February 1997 to investigate reports of secret payments by Ben Dunne to former  Taoiseach,  Charles Haughey and former cabinet minister Michael Lowry. A report from the Tribunal found that Haughey had given untrue evidence under oath and that Lowry was knowingly assisted by Dunne in evading tax. As a result of the findings and revelation of substantial funds in secret Ansbacher accounts, owned by Haughey, the new Ahern Government established a more extensive follow-up, the Moriarty Tribunal to investigate the financial affairs of the two politicians.

    The Mahon Tribunal. The tribunal ran from November 1997 to March 2012 and was the longest running and most expensive public inquiry ever held in the Republic of Ireland. This inquiry was to investigate allegations of corrupt payments to politicians regarding political decisions and  planning permissions  and land rezoning issues in the 1990s in the Dublin County Council area.  Findings of corruption were made against 11 councillors, due to court proceedings only 6 were named 


    The FÁS expenses scandal happened in Ireland in November/December 2008. The scandal first emerged in June 2008 when the Dáil was informed that gardaí were investigating the alleged misappropriate use of funds by a senior executive within FÁS. A number of high profile resignations followed after revelations that FÁS executives spent hundreds of thousands of euro belonging to the company on lavish holidays to the United States, which included first-class travel and expensive rounds of golf.

    The Morris Tribunal in 2002 was a public inquiry to address allegations of the 1990s and early 2000s against the Garda Síochána. Subjects explored included suggestions of corrupt and dishonest policing in County Donegal but its recommendations and conclusions have more widespread consequences and importance.it investigated the case of Frank McBrearty Snr from Co Donegal was the victim of harassment following the death of Richie Barron. He was awarded nearly €2.5 million euro in compensation by the Irish High Court.


    In 2014, material revealed by two Garda Síochána (Irish police) whistleblowers, Maurice McCabe and John Wilson, as well as the handling of the material and of the whistleblowers, led directly to the resignation of Ireland's then Minister for Justice and Equality, Alan Shatter. It was also part of the background leading up to the resignation of the Garda Commissioner, Martin Callinan. It was also part of the reason for the retirement of his successor Nóirín O'Sullivan.

    In the period 2009- 2017 it was revealed that Gardaí had exaggerated the number of breath tests carried out by 1.45 million over a seven-year period, a report found that 3,498,400 breath tests were recorded on the Garda’s Pulse computer system, when only 2,040,179 were recorded on alcohol testing devices.This represents a discrepancy of 1,458,221 breath tests.

    A number of formet executives of Anglo Irish Bank were charged in July 2012 with unlawfully helping a group of investors to buy shares in the lender in 2008, falsely inflating the share price before the bank was nationalised in 2009. The bank later collapsed, a key reason Dublin was forced to accept a €67.5bn bailout from the EU and International Monetary Fund.

    Also Seán FitzPatrick head of Anglo Irish Bankfrom 1986 until 2008, resigned after it emerged he had taken secret loans worth €155 million from the bank, hiding them from auditors for 8 years. He later defaulted on these loans due to the Global Recession and has since been unable to repay his debts, although he retired from his position with a pension of €4 million a year

    And so it goes on ...

    And this is only a partial list and notably excludes those who were not caught or where corruption remains uninvestigated.


    Great post. A trip down corruption lane...


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,471 ✭✭✭EdgeCase


    Police corruption happens all over the world. It doesn't excuse it in Ireland, but it's far from unique to here.

    What is key is that we find out what happened, learn from it and actually change the system and bring people to account. There's no point in just being outraged by it. The system needs to be held accountable where it's failed.

    No system is perfect and police corruption is, sadly, far from unusual, even in very developed countries.

    I mean look at France, you'd a situation where there were incidents of police being involved in drug dealing.

    See : Le Nouvel Observateur (L'Obs)

    https://www.nouvelobs.com/rue89/rue89-nos-vies-connectees/20081026.RUE6318/strasbourg-le-superflic-accuse-d-avoir-tourne-au-superdealer.html

    and there's been far worse than that too, particularly involving police brutality targeting ethnic minorities.

    Over in England, the Met is currently investigating its anti-corruption unit for corruption:

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/jul/22/metropolitan-police-anti-corruption-unit-faces-investigation

    Then if you've a look at the USA you've not only police corruption but also extreme violence and Robocop like approaches to everything.

    There are plenty of places, including in parts of Europe (at least according to research done by the EU), where it's not unusual to be asked to pay bribes by public officials. Ireland wasn't one of those.

    Corruption needs to be tackled, but I just think we also need to see it in context. It's a problem that's quite solvable and I think this notion that it's somehow unique to Ireland or cultural, is just nonsense. Systems that aren't transparent and aren't accountable are prone to being abused and that's just the reality of it.

    You solve the problems by removing the dark shadows and nobody should ever have absolute power. It's pretty obvious that it corrupts absolutely. There are countless examples of this.

    Have a browse of the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Police_corruption - I know it's just Wiki, but it's a good aggregator of the issue around the world.


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    rossie1977 wrote: »
    Nobody is saying there was no corruption in Ireland, but let's just compare to say New Jersey since 2000.

    Between 2000 and 2010 almost 150 of the states senators, mayor's, county executives and council members were arrested and charged with corruption.

    A investigation found that New Jersey government spent $42 million so far this decade to cover up some 200 claims into deaths, physical abuse and sexual misconduct at the hands of rogue police officers.

    Chris Christie the former governer was involved in numerous incidents like Bridgegate, closing all beaches to public while he and his family were photographed on one of said closed beaches. A member of his team was charged with bribing an airline to fly direct to South Carolina so that he could get quicker access to his vacation home.

    Yeah I get it - however it's not a competition. Between 1995 and today practically every elected government of the country has been involved one way or another either investigating or defending corruption and accountability. Numerous scandals involving elected councillors, state agencies, religous institutions including the death and abuse of children etc etc have been outed with many yet to be properly investigated. It's still going on and appears to be little will or desire to change the status quo especially where it encourages a few to benefit at the cost of many.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 20,441 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    scamalert wrote: »
    Ireland has its fare share of corruption but public also closes its eyes to it, most take it as it comes. Public sector is the worst and the best for those to make money as its cash cow with all the funds of EU and taxes few manage to rake.


    That aside if you talk guards are bad you never left the country, plenty of way worse goverments and corruption all across EU not to mention states etc, country is bad but on its own level compared to other countries Ireland is a saint.

    If Ireland is the most corrupt country, that means Irish people are the most corrupt people. Just by sheer numbers there are bound to be many more corrupt people in the private sector, which accounts for more than 80% of workers and bosses.

    To me the most corrupt people would gravitate to where there is the most money. The top brass in the private sector take home easily 20 times as much as any person in politics or the public sector generally. And they are not subject to so much scrutiny like that from SIPO or the various oversight bodies regulating the Gardai.


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