How will you vote in the Marriage Equality referendum? Mod Note Post 1

Paddy Cow · 24-01-2015 9:58pm

RobertKK wrote: »

Voting no, it is not about equality, it doesn't allow polygamy or bigamy. It doesn't cater for bisexuals who may want to marry a person from both sexes.
If people want marriage redefined, why not allow multiple husbands or wives?
We are told it is about love and equality, but then prevents a woman from having both a husband and wife, or more, or a man having both a husband and wife or more if he wanted.
Does this referendum want bisexuals to have people whom they are married to and a mistress or another man involved in the marriage whom they are not married to?

Surely the current wording doesn't go far enough for the LGBT lobby groups? It doesn't cater for bisexuals.

Voting no as I would rather a whole new system of marriage without state involvement.

I don't think you understand what bisexual means. Let me explain. Bisexual means you are attracted to and form normal, loving relationships with either men or women. If you are bisexual, you will likely form a loving relationship with one person, be they of the same or opposite sex.

Plenty of straight people cheat and if you are looking to label a group of people who want to be married to more than one person. then you probably mean polygamous marriages, which are illegal pretty much everywhere.

RayM · 24-01-2015 9:59pm

RobertKK wrote: »

I don't believe homosexuality is a sin, the way someone is born is not a sin and it is not seen as a sin in the church either.

But if they act upon their homosexual orientation, they are sinning, right? They're grand, as long as they stay celibate?

You've got to admit, it's no coincidence that the vast majority of people who speak out against marriage equality (citing concerns about children or the slippery slope towards incestuous marriage or polygamy) also happen to believe that homosexual acts are sinful.

Paddy Cow · 24-01-2015 10:00pm

Will there be an option to speed up the divorce process for all couples? It's shocking how long it takes in this country.

eviltwin · 24-01-2015 10:01pm

jimboblep wrote: »

Had been thinking of voting yes but Im starting to think about voting no for the same reason some of the attitudes and comments from the yes side are really quite grating
and I dont think im the only one

I don't understand this. Yes some people have been way overboard but so have many on the No side. There are always extremes in any debate. You don't listen to it though, you shut all the noise out and listen to what your head and your heart says and you go with that. Don't you?

Ave Sodalis · 24-01-2015 10:03pm

This really boils my blood... "oh the yes side said something offensive, I'm voting no!". It just completely ignores the fact that most of the "offensive" things the yes side say are generally in response to statements that are completely and utterly ridiculous. People who cannot defend their own stance and therefore resort to making crap up... and yet when the people who are on the receiving end of that crap get fed up, it's all up in arms. Why can others go around denying rights, spouting rubbish, and all that and there's isn't a word said but when that gets defended, it's all "ohh have to deny people their right to get married because one or two people got fed up of being crapped upon"?

Seriously, show me one (just one) well thought out, well presented, factual argument for the no side. I'd nearly bet my life on it that you can't. But apparently, no-one is allowed to disagree with the arguments of the idiotic, ignorant and just plain wrong arguments because some people will deny another group of people their rights because of it. Please somebody show me the logic here?!

K4t · 24-01-2015 10:03pm

reprise wrote: »

It's arguments like this that are pushing me to the no camp.

jimboblep wrote: »

Had been thinking of voting yes but Im starting to think about voting no for the same reason some of the attitudes and comments from the yes side are really quite grating
and I dont think im the only one

You're voting on a referendum on whether to extend equal rights to your fellow citizens. How in the name of Christ could you be swayed or even tempted to sway from a Yes vote to a No? That's just bollix tbh and does not make you look tolerant or intelligent or whatever look you're going for.

RobertKK · 24-01-2015 10:04pm

Paddy Cow wrote: »

I don't think you understand what bisexual means. Let me explain. Bisexual means you are attracted to and form normal, loving relationships with either men or women. If you are bisexual, you will likely form a loving relationship with one person, be they of the same or opposite sex.

Plenty of straight people cheat and if you are looking to label a group of people who want to be married to more than one person. then you probably mean polygamous marriages, which are illegal pretty much everywhere.

What if the man or woman had a lover of both sexes and wanted to marry both. I know it is polygamy.
So why are we talking about equality but not allowing polygamy?
Because we have to follow what others do?

Ave Sodalis · 24-01-2015 10:05pm

RobertKK wrote: »

What if the man or woman had a lover of both sexes and wanted to marry both. I know it is polygamy.
So why are we talking about equality but not allowing polygamy?
Because we have to follow what others do?

Polygamy can go fight their own fight. This isn't about polygamy.

eviltwin · 24-01-2015 10:06pm

RobertKK wrote: »

What if the man or woman had a lover of both sexes and wanted to marry both. I know it is polygamy.
So why are we talking about equality but not allowing polygamy?
Because we have to follow what others do?

We've had marriage for centuries and not once has anyone challenged it and asked to marry more than one woman or man. Why do you think legal same sex marriage will change that ? Do you think its just the gay community who want multiple partners? Personally I don't have any issue with multiple husbands or wives if that's your thing. It cant be any worse than having affairs or being a serial monogamist.

shruikan2553 · 24-01-2015 10:06pm

jimboblep wrote: »

Had been thinking of voting yes but Im starting to think about voting no for the same reason some of the attitudes and comments from the yes side are really quite grating
and I dont think im the only one

But the no side wishing to force their religious views on everyone or telling a lot of people who dont fit into their exact mother-father-children relationships that something was wrong with their upbringing is fine?

Zaph · 24-01-2015 10:08pm

RobertKK wrote: »

What I want caters for everyone, whatever belief or none they have.
I don't support heterosexual civil marriage, I simply believe the state has no role in the personal love lives of people.
Civil marriage gives the state a role and I don't support it.

So who is actually meant to have a role in marriage then? From a simply practical point of view, how are marriages meant to be recorded if the state doesn't do it?

RayM · 24-01-2015 10:08pm

RobertKK wrote: »

What if the man or woman had a lover of both sexes and wanted to marry both. I know it is polygamy.
So why are we talking about equality but not allowing polygamy?
Because we have to follow what others do?

You're very obviously only bringing polygamy into this discussion because you have no valid arguments against marriage equality.

People might respect you if you admit that your concerns stem from your religious beliefs.

jimboblep · 24-01-2015 10:08pm

K4t wrote: »

You're voting on a referendum on whether to extend equal rights to your fellow citizens. How in the name of Christ could you be swayed or even tempted to sway from a Yes vote to a No? That's just bollix tbh and does not make you look tolerant or intelligent or whatever look you're going for.

Thanks for proving my point
you came on here and called mine and another posters opinions " bollix" rather than address the issue raised and highlight the positive benefits of voting yes
its this very attitude that would lead me to using my vote as a protest against this attitude

Mongfinder General · 24-01-2015 10:09pm

I don't care how much bum sex someone has. They should be allowed get married and be as miserable as the rest of us.

eviltwin · 24-01-2015 10:10pm

jimboblep wrote: »

Had been thinking of voting yes but Im starting to think about voting no for the same reason some of the attitudes and comments from the yes side are really quite grating
and I dont think im the only one

You need to remember how personal this is for a lot of people. I have heard some really nasty comments about the gay community that have brought me to tears and I'm straight. If you have to listen to someone on tv or radio question your ability as a parent or the validity or your love and on a basic level just say you don't deserve the same rights as others and you are hearing that over and over again then its gotta hurt. Of course faced with that you might say something, perhaps something that you say in the heat of the moment that you wouldn't normally say but I think it can be forgiven.

Ave Sodalis · 24-01-2015 10:11pm

jimboblep wrote: »

Thanks for proving my point
you came on here and called mine and another posters opinions " bollix" rather than address the issue raised and highlight the positive benefits of voting yes
its this very attitude that would lead me to using my vote as a protest against this attitude

The yes side go over the same arguments over and over and over. I could list the arguments the no side present because they're the same, every single time. No matter how often the points are debunked, they still come up.

Why aren't you protesting against this? Why is okay for homosexuals to be repeatedly called names and lied about?

jimboblep · 24-01-2015 10:15pm

shruikan2553 wrote: »

But the no side wishing to force their religious views on everyone or telling a lot of people who dont fit into their exact mother-father-children relationships that something was wrong with their upbringing is fine?

I never said that my point is that the attitude of some people on the yes side, of saying vote yes just because and deriding anyone who raises legitimate questions rather than simply highlighting the positives of a yes vote , are what is annoying me
equating people with being homophobic bigots for simply asking for thieir side of the argument is whats making me possibly consider a no vote

reprise · 24-01-2015 10:15pm

K4t wrote: »

You're voting on a referendum on whether to extend equal rights to your fellow citizens. How in the name of Christ could you be swayed or even tempted to sway from a Yes vote to a No? That's just bollix tbh and does not make you look tolerant or intelligent or whatever look you're going for.

This is just the kind of poor attitude and targeted insult that I referred to. If it's representative of the people looking for me to haul myself out to change something that changes nothing for me personally, sorry, it aint working.

K4t · 24-01-2015 10:17pm

jimboblep wrote: »

Thanks for proving my point
you came on here and called mine and another posters opinions " bollix" rather than address the issue raised and highlight the positive benefits of voting yes

You've proven your point again, which is that you have no point.

its this very attitude that would lead me to using my vote as a protest against this attitude

You'd rather vote no as a protest against my attitude than to ensure equal rights for your neighbour, your work colleague, your friends, your relatives? Whatever helps you sleep at night.

RobertKK · 24-01-2015 10:18pm

Zaph wrote: »

So who is actually meant to have a role in marriage then? From a simply practical point of view, how are marriages meant to be recorded if the state doesn't do it?

The same as a will, with your solicitor.

jimboblep · 24-01-2015 10:20pm

eviltwin wrote: »

You need to remember how personal this is for a lot of people. I have heard some really nasty comments about the gay community that have brought me to tears and I'm straight. If you have to listen to someone on tv or radio question your ability as a parent or the validity or your love and on a basic level just say you don't deserve the same rights as others and you are hearing that over and over again then its gotta hurt. Of course faced with that you might say something, perhaps something that you say in the heat of the moment that you wouldn't normally say but I think it can be forgiven.

This is what im talking about arguments like this sway me back to the yes camp how it would help fellow citizens is how it should be presented what annoys me is that anyone who so much as asks a question is attacked instantly as I have been already for merely voicing a different opinion

Ave Sodalis · 24-01-2015 10:20pm

jimboblep wrote: »

I never said that my point is that the attitude of some people on the yes side, of saying vote yes just because and deriding anyone who raises legitimate questions rather than simply highlighting the positives of a yes vote , are what is annoying me
equating people with being homophobic bigots for simply asking for thieir side of the argument is whats making me possibly consider a no vote

reprise wrote: »

This is just the kind of poor attitude and targeted insult that I referred to. If it's representative of the people looking for me to haul myself out to change something that changes nothing for me personally, sorry, it aint working.

I really seriously want an answer from either or both of you. Why is it okay for the no side to get nasty, but not for the yes side to defend that? Why is the name calling, the lies, the assumptions, the refusal to listen to proof... why is all that perfectly okay to you?

Zaph · 24-01-2015 10:20pm

RobertKK wrote: »

The same as a will, with your solicitor.

And then the solicitor lodges the details with who exactly?

eviltwin · 24-01-2015 10:20pm

reprise wrote: »

This is just the kind of poor attitude and targeted insult that I referred to. If it's representative of the people looking for me to haul myself out to change something that changes nothing for me personally, sorry, it aint working.

It doesn't have to change anything for you personally, that's a very selfish way of looking at it. I am straight so it makes no bones to me but I have family members who are gay, I might in the future have friends who are gay or people I work with, live beside etc. And even if you never have a gay person in your life is that enough of a reason to vote no? Do you not look at the bigger picture?

Skylinehead · 24-01-2015 10:21pm

RobertKK wrote: »

The same as a will, with your solicitor.

So if it's a solicitor, what's to stop two gay people from marrying? Obviously the church won't, but a solicitor would.

K4t · 24-01-2015 10:21pm

reprise wrote: »

This is just the kind of poor attitude and targeted insult that I referred to. If it's representative of the people looking for me to haul myself out to change something that changes nothing for me personally, sorry, it aint working.

I was commenting on the fact that you admitted to being tempted to switch from a Yes vote to a No vote based purely on what you perceived as bad attitudes by some of those advocating for a Yes vote. That kind of attitude is more stupid than those voting No in the first place. Oh sorry, there goes my poor attitude again.

jimboblep · 24-01-2015 10:22pm

K4t wrote: »

You've proven your point again, which is that you have no point.
You'd rather vote no as a protest against my attitude than to ensure equal rights for your neighbour, your work colleague, your friends, your relatives? Whatever helps you sleep at night.

Again you do it
you make no mention of any positive reasons to vote just attack me can you not see any irony in this

RobertKK · 24-01-2015 10:23pm

Zaph wrote: »

And then the solicitor lodges the details with who exactly?

The marriage bureau, a NGO funded by the marriage license.

Skylinehead · 24-01-2015 10:23pm

jimboblep wrote: »

Again you do it
you make no mention of any positive reasons to vote just attack me can you not see any irony in this

Fine then, equality. There's a reason. People from both sides are attacking each other over this, that's not a reason to vote either way.

reprise · 24-01-2015 10:24pm

sup_dude wrote: »

I really seriously want an answer from either or both of you. Why is it okay for the no side to get nasty, but not for the yes side to defend that? Why is the name calling, the lies, the assumptions, the refusal to listen to proof... why is all that perfectly okay to you?

Where did I say the extremes of the no side were perfectly ok?

How will you vote in the Marriage Equality referendum? Mod Note Post 1

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