Gay Cake Controversy!

suicide_circus · 11-10-2018 2:42pm

Hector Savage wrote: »

They did an experiment in Dearborn Michigan in Muslim bakeries and most of them refused to bake a "gay cake" too.
No problem though, these fools don't even realise that it's their own bigotry of low expectations that makes them not get mad at that baker refusing him.

The left are so f*cking racist, CNN saying "token negro" ... jesus h christ, you could not make the sh1t up!

yeah but islamophobia dosnt have a christian equivalent so it's open season on the jesus freaks

gwalk · 11-10-2018 3:38pm

suicide_circus wrote: »

yeah but islamophobia dosnt have a christian equivalent so it's open season on the jesus freaks

its called the 12th of July :rolleyes:

freshpopcorn · 11-10-2018 5:05pm

Photographers booked for Christian bakers in gay cake case refuse to hand over images.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/photographers-booked-for-christian-bakers-in-gay-cake-case-refuse-to-hand-over-images-37409176.html

DEFTLEFTHAND · 11-10-2018 5:24pm

Hector Savage wrote: »

They did an experiment in Dearborn Michigan in Muslim bakeries and most of them refused to bake a "gay cake" too.
No problem though, these fools don't even realise that it's their own bigotry of low expectations that makes them not get mad at that baker refusing him.

The left are so f*cking racist, CNN saying "token negro" ... jesus h christ, you could not make the sh1t up!

The racism comes out when POC don't conform to leftist thinking. You see this in America with black Republicans being referred to as Uncle Toms.

The black economic and social author Thomas Sowell speaks about this in depth in his autobiography.

Under the bigotry of low expectations POC get treated like pet dogs.

bloodless_coup · 11-10-2018 5:50pm

freshpopcorn wrote: »

Photographers booked for Christian bakers in gay cake case refuse to hand over images.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/photographers-booked-for-christian-bakers-in-gay-cake-case-refuse-to-hand-over-images-37409176.html

Virtue signalling to get a bit of free advertising with media coverage.

pleas advice · 11-10-2018 6:24pm

riffmongous wrote: »

I just jumped into the thread at this page and I honestly thought you were ripping the piss here, like royal dainties, hilarious but who'd fall for that.. then I googled it when I saw the next post was serious

blessed are the cheesecake makers

ittakestwo · 11-10-2018 6:59pm

If the customer had gone to the bakery and asked for a cake that just said "Happy wedding Tom and John" and the shop had taken the order and then refused it later as it said gay marriage was against its believes then it would have lost on discrimination.

But here it was asked to make something
with a political message "support gay marriage" which it has the right to decline under article 10 of the European Human Rights.

skooterblue2 · 11-10-2018 7:02pm

Hector Savage wrote: »

They did an experiment in Dearborn Michigan in Muslim bakeries and most of them refused to bake a "gay cake" too.
No problem though, these fools don't even realise that it's their own bigotry of low expectations that makes them not get mad at that baker refusing him.

The left are so f*cking racist, CNN saying "token negro" ... jesus h christ, you could not make the sh1t up!

You do know that Dearborn Michigan is virtually an Islamic state within the United States? Them boys were lucky not to be shoved off the minaret. The Muslim Brotherhood/CAIR doesnt tolerate that sort of stuff.

gozunda · 11-10-2018 7:14pm

freshpopcorn wrote: »

Photographer booked for Christian bakers in gay cake case refuse to hand over images.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/photographers-booked-for-christian-bakers-in-gay-cake-case-refuse-to-hand-over-images-37409176.html

In a statement Tony Xu, the founder of the booking site, said: “We appreciate that this looks like tit for tat, and it is.”

I ♥️ Norn Iron....

Spanish Eyes · 11-10-2018 7:20pm

I suppose the cakebuyer now has a small window of opportunity pre Brexit to take his case to the ECHR, having exhausted all other avenues.

Will be interesting to see if he does take this further.

ohnonotgmail · 11-10-2018 7:26pm

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

I suppose the cakebuyer now has a small window of opportunity pre Brexit to take his case to the ECHR, having exhausted all other avenues.

Will be interesting to see if he does take this further.

Brexit has no effect on taking the case forward. the ECHR is not an EU entity.

hatrickpatrick · 11-10-2018 7:35pm

Sweetemotion wrote: »

Just seen this guy on the TV saying he feels like a second class citizen. What a fecking self entitled fool.

He wants to force people to go against their beliefs because he thinks his beliefs trumps theirs.

It's not about that, it's about denying a business the rights of a "person" and insisting that it doesn't discriminate about who it offers its services to.

I'm surprised so many are siding with the bakery here, tbh. Businesses exist to provide the various services society needs, they shouldn't be allowed to pick and choose who they offer those services to on the basis of ideology. I apply that to every business, btw, not just this one. If a printing company refused to print flyers for a meeting of the KKK I'd be just as opposed to their actions as I am to the bakery's here.

Nekarsulm · 11-10-2018 7:56pm

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Businesses exist to provide the various services society needs, they shouldn't be allowed to pick and choose who they offer those services to on the basis of ideology. .

Well its not that simple, as far as I understand contract law.
The bakery made an "invitation to treat" the prospective purchaser to their wares.
They are not required to actually supply anything if they dont want to.
Their problem began as soon as they accepted payment for the cake, as there then a contract in place.

If the person behind the counter had said right away "we don't supply cakes with such slogans on them, I'm sorry", then the initial case would possibly gone Ashers way.

dxhound2005 · 11-10-2018 8:17pm

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

I'm surprised so many are siding with the bakery here, tbh.

You must be astonished that not one judge of the supreme court agrees with you.

TheValeyard · 11-10-2018 8:33pm

I want this cake

hatrickpatrick · 11-10-2018 9:55pm

Nekarsulm wrote: »

Well its not that simple, as far as I understand contract law.
The bakery made an "invitation to treat" the prospective purchaser to their wares.
They are not required to actually supply anything if they dont want to.
Their problem began as soon as they accepted payment for the cake, as there then a contract in place.

If the person behind the counter had said right away "we don't supply cakes with such slogans on them, I'm sorry", then the initial case would possibly gone Ashers way.

I'm aware of the current paradigm, I'm merely pointing out that I totally diagree with it and reckon it should be changed. Businesses should not be allowed to decline service in this manner. To allow them to do so threatens societal freedoms in a fundamental way.

This is unlikely to change in my lifetime, but I certainly hope that it might.

hatrickpatrick · 11-10-2018 9:56pm

dxhound2005 wrote: »

You must be astonished that not one judge of the supreme court agrees with you.

I'm not at all, the current setup of how society is managed doesn't support it and therefore the laws are not there, the court would have been wrong to side with it. I'm merely expressing the hope that these laws will some day be implemented.

Pero_Bueno · 11-10-2018 10:00pm

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

[/B]

The racism comes out when POC don't conform to leftist thinking. You see this in America with black Republicans being referred to as Uncle Toms.

The black economic and social author Thomas Sowell speaks about this in depth in his autobiography.

Under the bigotry of low expectations POC get treated like pet dogs.

https://twitter.com/freedom_moates/status/1050443486657503232

wow .... I know it's off topic, but look at these fools, they can't stand the guy having his own opinion.

Gael23 · 11-10-2018 10:31pm

So have we seen the end of the matter then?

Nekarsulm · 11-10-2018 10:37pm

Gael23 wrote: »

So have we seen the end of the matter then?

Will Asher's take action to get their 500 Sterling refunded? !!!
How about looking for their expensis to date from Mr Lee?

freshpopcorn · 11-10-2018 10:40pm

Gael23 wrote: »

So have we seen the end of the matter then?

Claire Byrne might have both sides on for a heated debate!

Gael23 · 11-10-2018 10:43pm

Nekarsulm wrote: »

Will Asher's take action to get their 500 Sterling refunded? !!!
How about looking for their expensis to date from Mr Lee?

We might still make the 10,000 post limit on this thread then!

Green&Red · 11-10-2018 10:46pm

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

I'm aware of the current paradigm, I'm merely pointing out that I totally diagree with it and reckon it should be changed. Businesses should not be allowed to decline service in this manner. To allow them to do so threatens societal freedoms in a fundamental way.

This is unlikely to change in my lifetime, but I certainly hope that it might.

This was explained very well on Matt Cooper by a BGLT activist who agreed with the verdict.

Basically they agreed to do a cake for this lad, they weren’t discriminating to him based on his sexual orientation. Instead they declined to make his cake because they disagreed with the sentiment. They have to have that right!
This protects the supplier. It means someone can’t go into a Jewish printer and ask them to print a book denying the holocaust

gozunda · 12-10-2018 12:40am

Green&Red wrote: »

This was explained very well on Matt Cooper by a BGLT activist who agreed with the verdict.
Basically they agreed to do a cake for this lad, they weren’t discriminating to him based on his sexual orientation. Instead they declined to make his cake because they disagreed with the sentiment. They have to have that right!
This protects the supplier. It means someone can’t go into a Jewish printer and ask them to print a book denying the holocaust

There's is a distinct difference with printed hate speach on mass murder justification / denial type and issues regarding personal rights such as gay marriage. That has been gone over many many times in this thread. If boards got a euro for every Nazi reference in this thread - they'd be able to go out for a good slap up meal at this stage.

Regarding 'printed material' for example - the press council of Ireland Code of practice' states that

Principle 8 − Prejudice
The press shall not publish material intended or likely to cause grave offence or stir up hatred against an individual or group on the basis of their race, religion, nationality, colour, ethnic origin, membership of the travelling community, gender, sexual orientation, marital status, disability, illness or age.

http://www.presscouncil.ie/code-of-practice

Doesn't mean the bakery couldn't disagree with the order - They clearly did hence the whole shenanigans....

gozunda · 12-10-2018 12:48am

Nekarsulm wrote: »

Will Asher's take action to get their 500 Sterling refunded? !!!
How about looking for their expensis to date from Mr Lee?

Let them eat cake? :pac:

Amirani · 12-10-2018 12:58am

gozunda wrote: »

There's is a distinct difference with printed hate speach on mass murder justification / denial type and issues regarding personal rights such as gay marriage. That has been gone over many many times in this thread. If boards got a euro for every Nazi reference in this thread - they'd be able to go out for a good slap up meal at this stage.

Regarding 'printed material' for example - the press council of Ireland Code of practice' states that

http://www.presscouncil.ie/code-of-practice

Doesn't mean the bakery couldn't disagree with the order - They clearly did hence the whole shenanigans....

Let's ignore the Nazi references.

A Christian fundamentalist in Northern Ireland looks for a cake made saying "Abortion is Murder" or "Gay Marriage is sinful". Should the owner of the cake shop be allowed to now make these?

gozunda · 12-10-2018 1:10am

Amirani wrote: »

Let's ignore the Nazi references.

A Christian fundamentalist in Northern Ireland looks for a cake made saying "Abortion is Murder" or "Gay Marriage is sinful". Should the owner of the cake shop be allowed to now make these?

The basic premise doesn't change even leaving out the Nazis lol. Again both those sentiments include hate speech type references ie 'murder' / 'sinful' directed at specific groups or people (women and gay in your example) and not directly comparable to a message as requested by Mr Lee

Seriously through the amount of imaginary cakes with every combination of insult possible on this thread is quite hillarious. They have been all done at this stage lol ...

I'm thinking of doing a shortlist - It could be interesting tbh

Peregrinus · 12-10-2018 2:02am

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

It's not about that, it's about denying a business the rights of a "person" and insisting that it doesn't discriminate about who it offers its services to.

Gotta point out that the MacArthurs were sued in person here. Your argument that "businesses" (by which you mean "people engaged in business") don't have the rights of a person is essentially a neoliberal materialist argument that fundamental human rights must give way to the needs of commerce and the imperative of the profit motive. "Business" is emphatically not a rights-free area.

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

I'm surprised so many are siding with the bakery here, tbh. Businesses exist to provide the various services society needs, they shouldn't be allowed to pick and choose who they offer those services to on the basis of ideology. I apply that to every business, btw, not just this one. If a printing company refused to print flyers for a meeting of the KKK I'd be just as opposed to their actions as I am to the bakery's here.

The whole point of the judgment is taht the business wasn't picking and choosing who they would offer their services to; they were picking and choosing what services they would offer. The bakery was happy to bake cakes for Mr Lee and had done so in the past, but the particular cake that he wanted on this occasion was one that they wouldn't bake for anybody. Their decision not to bake the cake was a protected exercise of the right of free expression; they were free not to express this particular sentiment.

yoke · 12-10-2018 2:22am

Amirani wrote: »

Let's ignore the Nazi references.

A Christian fundamentalist in Northern Ireland looks for a cake made saying "Abortion is Murder" or "Gay Marriage is sinful". Should the owner of the cake shop be allowed to now make these?

I'll rewrite this to make the answer more obvious.

A Christian fundamentalist in Northern Ireland looks for a cake made saying "Jesus Christ is the lord" or "The pope is great!". Should the owner of the cake shop be allowed to refuse to make this, as they don't agree with the sentiment?

Peregrinus · 12-10-2018 2:26am

yoke wrote: »

A Christian fundamentalist in Northern Ireland looks for a cake made saying "Jesus Christ is the lord" or "The pope is great!". Should the owner of the cake shop be allowed to refuse to make this, as they don't agree with the sentiment?

Depends on the importance that you attach to freedom of speech. But, assuming the degree of protection of free speech under current law, the answer is "yes". Freedom of expression includes the right not to be compelled to express an opinion to which you have a profound objection.

Gay Cake Controversy!

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