Antisemitism rising sharply across Europe

[Deleted User] · 15-04-2019 12:58pm #1

Just came across this from Romania on the BBC this morning. Very disturbing stuff. Given how there are so few Jews left in the country, and eastern Europe generally, the mind boggles even more at how they can still target Jews. It must take great effort to find the handful of Jews left after the Holocaust and target them.

Having visited several Jewish museums in Poland, and Auschwitz, in the past year and learnt about the extirpation of entire villages, towns and cities of its Jewish population as recently as 75 years ago it's uniquely harrowing. All those photographs of vibrant communities and evidence of community life and in the space of a few years those centuries-old communities are exterminated forever. Some 3 million Jews, half of all Jews killed in the Holocaust, were Polish Jews. 90% of Poland's Jewish community were removed from this earth. The magnitude of this, and how recently it was, should make us worried about rises in antisemitism among local communities in Eastern Europe again. I would make distinctions between this and most (all?) of the French attacks in the sense that the latter seems to be from Arab Muslim communities, whereas this seems to have a deeper, indigenous origin. It's all antiseimitism of course, but there appear to be distinctions.

We all make a mistake if we think what the Nazis did could not happen again. It may not be Jews next time - simply because there wouldn't be enough of them - but there will unfortunately be populists in our societies who will always seek a scapegoat.

Antisemitism threatens Romania's fragile Jewish community (15 April 2019):

Ugly scenes of smashed and toppled headstones at a Jewish cemetery in Romania have shocked the country's dwindling Jewish community and prompted international condemnation.

Vandals badly damaged 73 gravestones in the north-eastern town of Husi earlier this month, amid a surge in anti-Semitic attacks across Europe.... Before the war, Romania had one of the largest Jewish communities in Europe. Today it is a fraction of its original size and most of the community are elderly.

"In 20 years there will be no Jewish community in Targu Mures," predicts history teacher Gyuri Diamantstein. Aged 64, he is one of the youngest at the prayer service, attended by around 20 people.

"We are the last representatives of (Romania's) Jews - we are dying," he says.

The Husi cemetery attack occurred less than a year after the childhood home of Romanian Auschwitz survivor Elie Wiesel, a Nobel laureate who for decades fought against hatred, was defaced with anti-Semitic graffiti. The graffiti scrawled on his former home, now a museum, read: "Public toilet, anti-Semite paedophile" and "Nazi Jew lying in hell with Hitler." Romania is not alone in witnessing anti-Semitic attacks. France reported a 74% rise in violence against Jews last year, while German police recorded a 60% rise...

Loads more recent examples:

1. Anti-Semitism rising sharply across Europe, latest figures show (15 February 2019)

2. 'Hundreds' of US Jewish graves attacked in Philadelphia

3. 37 Tombstones Desecrated at Jewish Cemetery in France (NYT, December 2018)

4. Jewish cemetery vandalised in ‘horrible act of antisemitism’ in Greater Manchester (10 Feb. 2019)

5. The longest hatred: Anti-Semitism on the rise (9 December 2018)

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Erik Shun · 15-04-2019 1:05pm

Ah religion...the opiate of the masses and the mask behind which we hide our hatreds

RWCNT · 15-04-2019 1:07pm

Erik Shun wrote: »

Ah religion...the opiate of the masses and the mask behind which we hide our hatreds

What does your highly original observation have to do with anything in the OP?

Berserker · 15-04-2019 1:11pm

Erik Shun wrote: »

Ah religion...the opiate of the masses and the mask behind which we hide our hatreds

Say what? Modern day anti semitism is rooted in politics, not religion.

super_furry · 15-04-2019 1:14pm

People are always looking for someone or something convinent to blame for their ****ty lives. It's horrible but with the rise of far right populism, Jewish people always seem to be in the firing line.

Erik Shun · 15-04-2019 1:18pm

Berserker wrote: »

Say what? Modern day anti semitism is rooted in politics, not religion.

The attacks in Herrlisheim had absolutely nothing to do with politics

15-04-2019 1:30pm

Modern day anti-semitism is based on history and conspiracy theories.

Jewish people wouldn't convert and accept the "true religion" - therefore they were "christ killers". They continued on this tradition (allegedly) by stealing christian children and drinking their blood.

Jewish people weren't accepted into mainstream living - therefore they were "different","strange", "untrustworthy". They kept to themselves!

Jewish people were barred from owning land or the professions - they had to make a living from making things and trading. Therefore they were money-grabbers.

Banking and lending for money was banned as sinful for Christians up until the 16th century. People borrowed instead from Jews - therefore they were usurers who sucked out your money through interest.

Jewish people always had to be ready to flee when the next pogram began - therefore they are transient, strangers, foreigners, etc.

Things aren't going so well in society - crop failures, economic slump, war etc? Well blame the Jews - they are evil outsiders after all.

The "theories" and conspiracies change with time - but anti-semitism remains the same.

Il Fascista · 15-04-2019 1:34pm

super_furry wrote: »

People are always looking for someone or something convinent to blame for their ****ty lives. It's horrible but with the rise of far right populism, Jewish people always seem to be in the firing line.

PARIS (Reuters) - A series of attacks across France in recent days has alarmed politicians and prompted calls for action against what some commentators describe as a new form of anti-Semitism among the far-left and Islamist preachers.

You're very disingenuous person. There's far more antisemitism from followers of Islam than there is from native Europeans.

Grayson · 15-04-2019 1:35pm

Berserker wrote: »

Say what? Modern day anti semitism is rooted in politics, not religion.

Not quite. There's valid criticism of Israel as a state but that doesn't mean that antisemitism should naturally flow from it. The majority of jews in europe aren't even Israeli citizens.

I'd say most of the antisemitism that exists today, exists for the same reason it always has. And part of that is religion. For hundreds of years jews were portrayed as duplicitous and the killers of Jesus. It definitely still leads into western antisemitism.

Plus the same old tropes are used. The idea of a secret organisation controlling europe etc. And that even manages to spill into islamophobia. The idea that people like George Soros are trying to overrun europe with muslims. So that's a double whammy, the jews and the muslims are trying to destroy the west.

Antisemitism is weird, not just because it's stupid, but because it's also complex. The crap that feeds it is everything from religion, to the myth of cultural marxism to the state of israel and many other crazy bits and pieces.

So, I don't think anyone can say religion isn't involved. It's 100% in the mix. But I don't think anyone can say it's 100% the cause either.

Grayson · 15-04-2019 1:37pm

Il Fascista wrote: »

You're very disingenuous person. There's far more antisemitism from followers of Islam than there is from native Europeans.

I guess we can trust an opinion about anti semitism from someone with that username

biko · 15-04-2019 1:38pm

I agree the rise of anti-semitism is very disturbing.
It seems to come from many directions too, the right, the left, the muslims, the conspiracy theorists.
Even people I know are "Jews did 911" which is causing some friction between us.

Grayson · 15-04-2019 1:41pm

I'm always amazed at how stupid antisemitism is. Ok, all racial discrimination is really but it's just that after the holocaust, after all the myths were shown to be lies, there's still people who support this crap.

Berserker · 15-04-2019 1:52pm

Grayson wrote: »

So, I don't think anyone can say religion isn't involved. It's 100% in the mix. But I don't think anyone can say it's 100% the cause either.

If you are saying that it contributes in some subconscious manner then I can see your point. I have to disagree with you otherwise. If I opened a thread on this site, discussing the pros and cons of Judaism in 2019, I strongly doubt that we'd see a single post mentioning duplicity or killing Jesus. The modern day politics of Israel would dominate it.

TomSweeney · 15-04-2019 1:56pm

Berserker wrote: »

Say what? Modern day anti semitism is rooted in politics, not religion.

:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

Yeah - the politics of Islam

topper75 · 15-04-2019 2:03pm

TomSweeney wrote: »

:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

Yeah - the politics of Islam

If the Romanian jews want to relocate here, they should be given priority as genuine cases ahead of the bogus element in our direct provision centres.

Grayson · 15-04-2019 2:06pm

TomSweeney wrote: »

:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

Yeah - the politics of Islam

How is it that when the OP specifically mentions Romania you jump to islam.

Antisemitism in europe has been a problem for hundreds of years. It caused the industrialised killing of millions. There's a photo of a graveyard with swastikas in it. Yet you and others are willing to ignore all this so you can grind your own personal axes against islam. And laugh whilst doing it.

goose2005 · 15-04-2019 2:17pm

1641 wrote: »

Modern day anti-semitism is based on history and conspiracy theories.

Jewish people wouldn't convert and accept the "true religion" - therefore they were "christ killers". They continued on this tradition (allegedly) by stealing christian children and drinking their blood.

Jewish people weren't accepted into mainstream living - therefore they were "different","strange", "untrustworthy". They kept to themselves!

Jewish people were barred from owning land or the professions - they had to make a living from making things and trading. Therefore they were money-grabbers.

Banking and lending for money was banned as sinful for Christians up until the 16th century. People borrowed instead from Jews - therefore they were usurers who sucked out your money through interest.

Jewish people always had to be ready to flee when the next pogram began - therefore they are transient, strangers, foreigners, etc.

Things aren't going so well in society - crop failures, economic slump, war etc? Well blame the Jews - they are evil outsiders after all.

The "theories" and conspiracies change with time - but anti-semitism remains the same.

don't forget their ability to control the entire capitalist system and at the same time be behind the Bolshevist conspiracy to destroy the capitalist system

markodaly · 15-04-2019 2:19pm

Anti-Semitism is rife in certain left-wing circles. Just look at the trouble the Labor party in the UK are having with it. The party is infested with it.

mcmoustache · 15-04-2019 2:21pm

biko wrote: »

I agree the rise of anti-semitism is very disturbing.
It seems to come from many directions too, the right, the left, the muslims, the conspiracy theorists.
Even people I know are "Jews did 911" which is causing some friction between us.

This is what I'm seeing too. As much as people want to use the persecution of jews to have a go at the left, the right, muslims or whichever crowd they want point the finger at, the fact is that anti-semitism isn't just coming from one ideology; it's coming from many different and ideologically opposed groups.

riffmongous · 15-04-2019 2:22pm

It was in the news a few days ago about how one of the top Identitarians, the definitely not a neo-nazi Martin Sellner, was arrested for defacing a synagogue with a swastika years ago

But of course its not just the right, at least in England some of the comments I read quoted in relation to the current Labour scandal were despicable, and the lack of a response disgraceful.

2ndcoming · 15-04-2019 2:23pm

markodaly wrote: »

Anti-Semitism is rife in certain left-wing circles. Just look at the trouble the Labor party in the UK are having with it. The party is infested with it.

This is nonsense. There is "drawing swastikas on graves" anti-Semitism and the newly defined by Netenyahu & Co "criticising Israel as an oppressive apartheid regime" anti-Semitism. The issues of the *Labour party relate to the second one.

Your Face · 15-04-2019 2:30pm

Anti-Semitism is bad and the Holocaust was a horrific event that I still find hard to get to grips with. The scale of it is harrowing.

Now, I'm not having a go at the OP or anyone and I hope even the knee-jerk moralistas can understand what I'm about to say:

Highlighting this just comes across as another fashionable trend for people to signal their own ostensibly righteous virtues.
I find it frustrating because it's all talk and no action and it cheapens the seriousness of the issues raised.

Chips Lovell · 15-04-2019 2:36pm

I love the way when antisemitism is mentioned, there's always a goodly constituency of people who rock up and try to shoehorn it into their own pet agenda.

"It's the muslims"
"It's the left"
"It's the right".

FFS. Are you only interested in it if it's your own personal bogeymen who're responsible?

Grayson · 15-04-2019 2:39pm

mcmoustache wrote: »

This is what I'm seeing too. As much as people want to use the persecution of jews to have a go at the left, the right, muslims or whichever crowd they want point the finger at, the fact is that anti-semitism isn't just coming from one ideology; it's coming from many different and ideologically opposed groups.

Yep as can be seen with the anti semitism issues in the UK labour party. Now I think there have been a few who are overblowing the extent of it in Labour. And they're doing it for political reasons. But I also believe that there is a real problem with antisemitism in the labour party. It's far worse with some far left groups.

Antisemitism is something that draws support from the far left and far right. It's one of the few things they have in common.

riffmongous · 15-04-2019 2:43pm

Your Face wrote: »

Anti-Semitism is bad and the Holocaust was a horrific event that I still find hard to get to grips with. The scale of it is harrowing.

Now, I'm not having a go at the OP or anyone and I hope even the knee-jerk moralistas can understand what I'm about to say:

Highlighting this just comes across as another fashionable trend for people to signal their own ostensibly righteous virtues.
I find it frustrating because it's all talk and no action and it cheapens the seriousness of the issues raised.

I disagree, even just talking about it here and highlighting that it's still an issue helps stops a slow creep of normalisation of anti semitism and covert anti semitic tropes that are common online ( Soros as the the big bad jew, denial of Israel's right to exist framed as anti-zionism). If Labour had kept in mind how serious it is and why it needs to be dealt with they wouldn't be having such a huge scandal now (although their opponents would still be trying)

Grayson · 15-04-2019 2:46pm

2ndcoming wrote: »

This is nonsense. There is "drawing swastikas on graves" anti-Semitism and the newly defined by Netenyahu & Co "criticising Israel as an oppressive apartheid regime" anti-Semitism. The issues of the *Labour party relate to the second one.

I don't think so. I've very much anti netanyahu. I think his right wing populism is despicable. And I do have problems with the state of israel but I do realise that being jewish or even israeli does not mean that a person shares any blame for that.

And although those guys in labour would distance themselves from the nazi's I think most of their antisemitism comes from the same place. Sure they wouldn't deface something with a swastika but they still believe the ame conspiracy crap that the neo nazi's believe.

markodaly · 15-04-2019 2:50pm

2ndcoming wrote: »

This is nonsense. There is "drawing swastikas on graves" anti-Semitism and the newly defined by Netenyahu & Co "criticising Israel as an oppressive apartheid regime" anti-Semitism. The issues of the *Labour party relate to the second one.

Ah, and there is also a rise of this type of bull **** excusing outright anti-Semitism when one of your own gets accused of it.
This type of reaction is just as bad as some yob painting a swastika on grave because they should really know better.

There are numerous examples of this, from Ken Livingstone 'Hitler was a Zionist' to Corbyn possing beside a mural depicting classic anti Semitic tropes, which he defended.

markodaly · 15-04-2019 2:53pm

For some reason, all the ills of the world originated with the Rothschild.
There is still a veneer of this Jewish anti-banker/anti-capitalist behind some of the left wing politics we see today.

riffmongous · 15-04-2019 2:53pm

Grayson wrote: »

I don't think so. I've very much anti netanyahu. I think his right wing populism is despicable. And I do have problems with the state of israel but I do realise that being jewish or even israeli does not mean that a person shares any blame for that.

And although those guys in labour would distance themselves from the nazi's I think most of their antisemitism comes from the same place. Sure they wouldn't deface something with a swastika but they still believe the ame conspiracy crap that the neo nazi's believe.

I don't think Bibi is doing many favours in the long run either for the Jewish people with his courting of extreme evangelical groups

Your Face · 15-04-2019 2:57pm

riffmongous wrote: »

I disagree, even just talking about it here and highlighting that it's still an issue helps stops a slow creep of normalisation of anti semitism and covert anti semitic tropes that are common online ( Soros as the the big bad jew, denial of Israel's right to exist framed as anti-zionism). If Labour had kept in mind how serious it is and why it needs to be dealt with they wouldn't be having such a huge scandal now (although their opponents would still be trying)

We're in disagreement on that then.
I would say that the constant nonactive highlighting of issues has the effect of indifference on the general population. Even the outrage brigade tire themselves out eventually.

I do agree in the casual anti-Semitic language being casually more prevalent but would also add that it's not only Jewish people being maligned.
However that will move this too much off topic so I'll leave it there.

riffmongous · 15-04-2019 2:59pm

markodaly wrote: »

For some reason, all the ills of the world originated with the Rothschild.
There is still a veneer of this Jewish anti-banker/anti-capitalist behind some of the left wing politics we see today.

This was posted by Austrian far right leader HC Strache who is actually more or less Tánaiste at the moment, check out the cufflink patterns

Antisemitism rising sharply across Europe

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