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Coding

  • 06-06-2018 12:06am
    #1
    mufc1993
    Registered Users Posts: 171 ✭✭


    Hi

    I am looking to become proficient at code with a view to teaching it in the near future. I am a complete beginner in it at the moment.

    I'm wondering where would be the best place to start? If someone had a rough idea of a scheme of work for coding that would be great. Have heard Scratch is the best to start with anyways before getting on to the more difficult stuff.


Comments

  • #2
    frankston
    Registered Users Posts: 52 ✭✭frankston


    mufc1993 wrote: »
    Hi

    I am looking to become proficient at code with a view to teaching it in the near future. I am a complete beginner in it at the moment.

    I'm wondering where would be the best place to start? If someone had a rough idea of a scheme of work for coding that would be great. Have heard Scratch is the best to start with anyways before getting on to the more difficult stuff.

    What sort of teaching ? Coder dojo or third level?
    As this will dictate what you mean by proficiency .

    Do you plan to do this full-time or part-time?

    Have you already got a degree? What's your current level of education?

    If you have no programming experience your first language will be the hardest after that new languages become a lot easier and faster to learn.

    From a complete beginner scenerio I would expect a good student to have a good level of object oriented programming knowledge/capability in Java in about 18 months of full-time study

    Of course different people will have different views of what good / proficient means

    Regards


  • #3
    mufc1993
    Registered Users Posts: 171 ✭✭mufc1993


    frankston wrote: »
    What sort of teaching ? Coder dojo or third level?
    As this will dictate what you mean by proficiency .

    Do you plan to do this full-time or part-time?

    Have you already got a degree? What's your current level of education?

    If you have no programming experience your first language will be the hardest after that new languages become a lot easier and faster to learn.

    From a complete beginner scenerio I would expect a good student to have a good level of object oriented programming knowledge/capability in Java in about 18 months of full-time study

    Of course different people will have different views of what good / proficient means

    Regards

    Sorry forgot to mention its for second level.

    Have a degree and master of education at the moment.

    Would be hoping to teach myself over the summer really.


  • #4
    amp123
    Registered Users Posts: 3 ✭amp123


    Code Academy may be a good place to start as well. Do you know which language(s) they are planning to have on the curriculum?


  • #5
    frankston
    Registered Users Posts: 52 ✭✭frankston


    mufc1993 wrote: »
    Sorry forgot to mention its for second level.

    Have a degree and master of education at the moment.

    Would be hoping to teach myself over the summer really.

    If it's for the new leaving cert CS curriculum I would go with Python, in my view scratch is more primary level. Python is also very popular and has lots of related online courses. Its used a lot in the UK at secondary level which means you can access teaching resources and related concepts at an appropriate for junior/leaving cert.


  • #6
    Tom Dunne
    Registered Users Posts: 23,212 ✭✭✭✭Tom Dunne


    If it's for the Leaving Cert Computer Science, then it's most likely Python you need.

    +1 for Code Academy.


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  • #7
    mufc1993
    Registered Users Posts: 171 ✭✭mufc1993


    Thanks folks.

    And if I was focusing more on a junior cycle short course on coding what would be most appropriate would you think?


  • #8
    Tom Dunne
    Registered Users Posts: 23,212 ✭✭✭✭Tom Dunne


    mufc1993 wrote: »
    Thanks folks.

    And if I was focusing more on a junior cycle short course on coding what would be most appropriate would you think?

    Scratch is always the first port of call for younger students. While us purists might balk at the idea of drag-and-drop programming, it is easy to learn and visually appealing things can be generated with relatively little effort. Exactly what the kids want! :pac:


  • #9
    byhookorbycrook
    Moderators, Education Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 12,475 Mod ✭✭✭✭byhookorbycrook


    I'd imagine secondary students wouldn't be impressed with Scratch as it's done at primary level in so many places now.


  • #10
    evolving_doors
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,812 ✭✭✭✭evolving_doors


    byhookorbycrook wrote: »
    I'd imagine secondary students wouldn't be impressed with Scratch as it's done at primary level in so many places now.

    I'd echo that, I ran a scratch course this year and a few weren't far behind me. In saying that the level of ability was very mixed. Maybe start out with the concepts in scratch (loops, motion, costume etc) and then jump in to python. It would depend on how far you want to take it (or how far the school will be taking it!).In another part of the country it might be a completely different profile.


  • #11
    RealJohn
    Registered Users Posts: 2,099 ✭✭✭RealJohn


    byhookorbycrook wrote: »
    I'd imagine secondary students wouldn't be impressed with Scratch as it's done at primary level in so many places now.
    Can’t speak for everyone, obviously, but my students enjoy Scratch, even those who’ve seen it before.
    Maybe not one for a whole course but I think most students will engage with it for a while.


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  • #12
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭[Deleted User]


    RealJohn wrote: »
    Can’t speak for everyone, obviously, but my students enjoy Scratch, even those who’ve seen it before.
    Maybe not one for a whole course but I think most students will engage with it for a while.

    What age are your students though?


  • #13
    r93kaey5p2izun
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,962 ✭✭✭r93kaey5p2izun


    We ran Scratch modules with 1st, 2nd and TY last year. No students had done it before. Some liked it, some hated it.


  • #14
    Phoebas
    Registered Users Posts: 9,370 ✭✭✭Phoebas


    Scratch is great for younger kids because it uses the basic programming constructs and they can get something visually up and running in no time.

    But if you're going to be teaching programming then learning a 'real' language would be better.

    Python would be a good choice. Also consider JavaScript (although JavaScript is an easy language to be very bad at for a beginner). Otherwise consider c# or Java; both of these have great tooling and online resources.

    CodeAcademy is a good free learning resources, but also look at PluralSight or Udemy. Good course content by a good tutor is half the battle.


  • #15
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭[Deleted User]


    Can i suggest when posters say "younger kids" they add context as to what age group they mean. In my experience 6-10 year olds love scratch. Many people 12+ roll their eyes at it because "its lame".

    Python is the way to go in my opinion. I do security monitoring at a bank and use python daily. Python has real world uses, scratch does not.


  • #16
    Phoebas
    Registered Users Posts: 9,370 ✭✭✭Phoebas


    I wouldn't recommend teaching Scratch to post primary kids.

    The biggest advantage of Scratch is also its biggest problem; because it's so easy to build something graphical, I've noticed that kids (in my local coder dojo) spend more of their time creating graphics and little animations than learning the core programming constructs.

    I guess the problem with programming is that it's pretty boring for most people and it takes a while before you can produce anything that's very exciting at all.


  • #17
    cruizer101
    Registered Users Posts: 3,205 ✭✭✭cruizer101


    I do think scratch could be good to teach concepts, for loop, if, etc..
    You could then link it to a python program so show a for loop block is replaced by for(some condtion){ do something }
    But I wouldn't recommend it for a whole course.


  • #18
    Tom Dunne
    Registered Users Posts: 23,212 ✭✭✭✭Tom Dunne


    Some people suggest assembly language might be suitable for younger kids: https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057866215

    :)

    Now that would be harsh.


  • #19
    RealJohn
    Registered Users Posts: 2,099 ✭✭✭RealJohn


    denartha wrote: »
    What age are your students though?
    The ones I do Scratch with tend to be from 1st year to TY.


  • #20
    man_no_plan
    Registered Users Posts: 1,018 ✭✭✭man_no_plan


    RealJohn wrote: »
    The ones I do Scratch with tend to be from 1st year to TY.

    I have to say that I have found scratch to be useful for groups up to TY also. It gets them up and moving at coding and is accessible to everyone. Even creating simple games on it develops the sort of thinking we're all supposed to be using nowadays.

    OP you could try the PG Cert in Trinity, they do scratch and python modules along with other stuff. Only about €600 I think to do it, a few from my school have done it and enjoyed it.

    Cheapest postgraduate qualification in town I'd say!


  • #21
    SweetCaliber
    Registered Users Posts: 2,460 ✭✭✭SweetCaliber


    Funnily enough last year we did scratch in College as part of first year Bsc in Applied Computing.

    It was boring, but for those in the class who didnt know where to start, it gave them an idea.

    It allows you to visualize loops, block statements, functions, conditions, etc...

    We also did it in 3rd year IT back in secondary school, as part of the ECDL Driving License.

    To be fair, I think Scratch is outdated, there is no fall back. Where as the concept is still strong, such as Google's version, Blocky.

    https://developers.google.com/blockly/

    Or MIT's version, the MIT App Inventor:

    http://ai2.appinventor.mit.edu/


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  • #22
    RealJohn
    Registered Users Posts: 2,099 ✭✭✭RealJohn


    man_no_plan wrote: »
    OP you could try the PG Cert in Trinity, they do scratch and python modules along with other stuff. Only about €600 I think to do it, a few from my school have done it and enjoyed it.

    Cheapest postgraduate qualification in town I'd say!
    Cheap for a reason. I did it and didn’t think much of it. I didn’t do the Python module (and maybe I should have) but the Scratch modules relied almost entirely on the ability of the students who already had experience with Scratch. There was very little by way of instruction.
    The same applied to the Digital Media module. If someone wasn’t already reasonably tech savvy, I imagine they’d struggle.


  • #23
    johnnyfruitcake
    Registered Users Posts: 314 ✭✭johnnyfruitcake


    Opening this up again.

    Any recommendations on courses to start off with before jumping into doing an evening course?

    Want to try learn as much as possible with an aim of eventually getting a qualification and hopefully work in a few years.


  • #24
    man_no_plan
    Registered Users Posts: 1,018 ✭✭✭man_no_plan


    johnnyfruitcake wrote: »
    Opening this up again.

    Any recommendations on courses to start off with before jumping into doing an evening course?

    Want to try learn as much as possible with an aim of eventually getting a qualification and hopefully work in a few years.

    IT Tallaght, or TUD Tallaght, or whatever its called now are doing a course to prepp teachers for computer science at LC. I got an email about ot a while back. I will try to dig it out.


  • #25
    johnnyfruitcake
    Registered Users Posts: 314 ✭✭johnnyfruitcake


    Cheers, but I'm not looking to teach, I'm aiming at getting into a programming job in the future, I have a trade but can't do it forever.


  • #26
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,121 ✭✭✭[Deleted User]


    There's an IT certification forum here:
    https://www.boards.ie/b/forum/882

    It would probably be better to look there.


  • #27
    frankston
    Registered Users Posts: 52 ✭✭frankston


    pg633 wrote: »
    There's an IT certification forum here:
    https://www.boards.ie/b/forum/882

    It would probably be better to look there.

    Lots of free programming courses here , all over the country . If you fast you can probably join now as it's only week2
    https://springboardcourses.ie/


  • #28
    johnnyfruitcake
    Registered Users Posts: 314 ✭✭johnnyfruitcake


    Thanks for the link, is there a course you would recommend?


  • #29
    frankston
    Registered Users Posts: 52 ✭✭frankston


    johnnyfruitcake wrote: »
    Thanks for the link, is there a course you would recommend?

    Where are you based ?


  • #30
    johnnyfruitcake
    Registered Users Posts: 314 ✭✭johnnyfruitcake


    I'm in Kilkenny, Carlow IT is prob closest collage to me.


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