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Dublin's 24h bus services

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Comments

  • #32
    cgcsb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,251 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    Stephen15 wrote: »
    Only runs two nights a week in one direction with different routes albeit similar to regular routes and charges a premium fare so a bit different to running a 24 hour service the same as a regular daytime service with the same fares at reduced frequency.

    Hardly rocket science though.


  • #33
    GM228
    Registered Users Posts: 8,925 ✭✭✭GM228


    AlmightyCushion wrote: »
    We already have night buses running here in Dublin with nitelink, so these new 24 hours services aren't very different to that. I agree, we shouldn't need months and years to do this right.

    They will in that they will (or at least should) benefit from standard PSO ticket pricing and FTP use.


  • #34
    AlmightyCushion
    Moderators, Education Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 35,040 Mod ✭✭✭✭AlmightyCushion


    Stephen15 wrote: »
    Only runs two nights a week in one direction with different routes albeit similar to regular routes and charges a premium fare so a bit different to running a 24 hour service the same as a regular daytime service with the same fares at reduced frequency.

    Ah, come on. What is so difficult about it? The nite link should give us an idea of most of the issues with running a late night service (anti-social behaviour etc) and how to deal with them. All the rest we know how to do because we already do it during the day time. I can't see how it can take this long to implement something like this.


  • #35
    AlmightyCushion
    Moderators, Education Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 35,040 Mod ✭✭✭✭AlmightyCushion


    GM228 wrote: »
    They will in that they will (or at least should) benefit from standard PSO ticket pricing and FTP use.

    The FTP can be used on nitelink services already so that doesn't change anything there. I don't see how night time tickets being the same price as day time tickets causes such huge headaches that we need a year to figure it out.


  • #36
    Stephen15
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,907 ✭✭✭Stephen15


    AlmightyCushion wrote: »
    Ah, come on. What is so difficult about it? The nite link should give us an idea of most of the issues with running a late night service (anti-social behaviour etc) and how to deal with them. All the rest we know how to do because we already do it during the day time. I can't see how it can take this long to implement something like this.

    I'd imagine finding the drivers to work such services would be somewhat difficult rotas would also have to be agreed upon with the unions aswell as rates of overtime. All mostly minor things but enough to effect the starting date of said services.


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  • #37
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,503 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Nitelinks are being re-based in price in stages to match Xpresso fares; this was stated in the fare determination last year.


  • #38
    cgcsb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,251 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    This is an attitude that permeates institutional Ireland and I hate it. It's like finding reasons why not is the national sport.

    I went to an Engineers Ireland talk by the head of infrastructure investment in IÉ he made out that the area where the lines meet north of Connoly and the loopline were the most complex junction of railways known to man. Granted it's a busy junction in an Irish context but international experience is readily available and indeed has already been given. He seemed to think getting it to work was like building the Hadron Collider.

    It's the same with just having night buses, we'll take a few years to make sure we 'get it right'. It's a basic standard service, common in the industrialised world. Just stfu and bloody do it already.

    Same with integrated ticketing, 10 years after leap infrastructure is introduced, still no integrated ticketing, although it is promised to be delivered next year under bus connects. Mother of X this is WW2 era stuff, why keep talking about these things, just do them. /rant.


  • #39
    cgcsb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,251 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    AlmightyCushion wrote: »
    The FTP can be used on nitelink services already so that doesn't change anything there. I don't see how night time tickets being the same price as day time tickets causes such huge headaches that we need a year to figure it out.

    It literally requires no innovation whatsoever.


  • #40
    GM228
    Registered Users Posts: 8,925 ✭✭✭GM228


    AlmightyCushion wrote: »
    The FTP can be used on nitelink services already so that doesn't change anything there.

    I recall something from the NTA a few years ago where they said that Nitelink would start accepting FTP sometime in the future, but both DB and the Dept. of Social Welfare state FTP is not accepted on Nitelink.


  • #41
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,435 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    Today I watched a video from Japan of them converting an above ground train line into an underground (like what was proposed for the Green Line and Metrolink).

    This was accomplished in just 3.5 hours over night!!!

    As in trains were running normal, last train stops, hundreds of works stream onto the track to start converting it, 3.5 hours later the trains were running back for the morning rush, only now underground!

    Yes, it isn't rocket science, pull the finger out.


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  • #42
    cgcsb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,251 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    bk wrote: »
    Today I watched a video from Japan of them converting an above ground train line into an underground (like what was proposed for the Green Line and Metrolink).

    This was accomplished in just 3.5 hours over night!!!

    As in trains were running normal, last train stops, hundreds of works stream onto the track to start converting it, 3.5 hours later the trains were running back for the morning rush, only now underground!

    Yes, it isn't rocket science, pull the finger out.

    granted health and safety in Japan is somewhat questionable, but I mean even if we could get such progress in 3.5 months, I think that'd be satisfactory. 3 years to get a solitary infrequent night bus route started is a painful joke. Human lives are pretty short, people need to see benefits for their hard work, hoping that your grandkids might see improvements isn't good enough.


  • #43
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,435 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    cgcsb wrote: »
    granted health and safety in Japan is somewhat questionable,

    Is it? I though that the Japanese were H&S freaks?

    Certainly looked very professional in the video. Everyone wearing helmets, high viz, steel boots, white gloves and controllers/supervisors waving wounds like they use for directing aircraft on the ground, to indicate when the workers could enter the track, etc.

    It looked more of a case of highly organised and orchestrated to me.

    EDIT, yep found the video:
    https://interestingengineering.com/video/1200-workers-convert-train-station-subway-3-5-hours


  • #44
    AlmightyCushion
    Moderators, Education Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 35,040 Mod ✭✭✭✭AlmightyCushion


    GM228 wrote: »
    I recall something from the NTA a few years ago whete they said that Nitelink would start accepting FTP sometime in the future, but both DB and the Dept. of Social Welfare state FTP is not accepted on Nitelink.

    http://www.welfare.ie/en/Pages/204_Free-Travel.aspx
    Where free travel can be used
    Free travel is available on most Iarnród Éireann, Bus Éireann, Dublin Bus, DART and Luas Services and on certain private bus and ferry services. Free travel does not include some special services such as Dublin Bus AIRLINK services. You may also travel free of charge on certain cross-border services between Ireland and Northern Ireland.

    Free travel is also available on the Dublin Bus NITELINK service.

    http://www.welfare.ie/en/Pages/780_Free-Travel.aspx#3
    3.6 WHEN CAN A FREE TRAVEL CARD BE USED?
    A Free Travel Card may be used to travel free of charge on the following transport services at anytime on scheduled services:

    Bus Atha Cliath
    (AIRLINK and Special Airport services are excluded)
    NITELINK services from 21 April 2017
    Bus Eireann
    Provincial City Services in Cork and Limerick cities
    Iarnrod Eireann
    DART
    LUAS
    Participating private bus and ferry services
    Participating Cross-Border scheduled services (Between Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland - See Appendix 3)


    Even if FTP isn't accepted on Nitelink services. What specifically about accepting them on night time services would make it difficult to implement? It would operate the same way as they do on day time services. None of this makes it difficult to implement.


  • #45
    cgcsb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,251 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    bk wrote: »
    Is it? I though that the Japanese were H&S freaks?

    Certainly looked very professional in the video. Everyone wearing helmets, high viz, steel boots, white gloves and controllers/supervisors waving wounds like they use for directing aircraft on the ground, to indicate when the workers could enter the track, etc.

    It looked more of a case of highly organised and orchestrated to me.

    EDIT, yep found the video:
    https://interestingengineering.com/video/1200-workers-convert-train-station-subway-3-5-hours

    I found that they tend to leave manhole covers open and not sealed off at night, some precarious wiring to say the least and some activities are undertaken quite frivolously on building sites. The culture is different, nobody sues anyone, if you hurt yourself, people call you an idiot and they assume your family are idiots, so you get up, dust yourself off and never mention it again.


  • #46
    LeinsterDub
    Registered Users Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭LeinsterDub


    cgcsb wrote: »
    Some of us aren't even that old. 'Get it right'? it's a bog standard double decker bus service that just runs at a different time of day. Like the night buses they had in London in the 80s it's not the Mumbai hyperloop.

    And if you upset the unions it will be 10 years like the 10 minute darts.


  • #47
    thomasj
    Registered Users Posts: 4,785 ✭✭✭thomasj


    questionmark? wrote: »
    Before the late night bus service in cork it was €20 for a taxi to Ballincollig it's now less than €2 with a Leap Card! I can see why it's popular.

    It's more than 20 euro for Dublin to blanchardstown by taxi. 30 minutes further down the road in ratoath, county meath it's 6.90 by bus.


  • #48
    john boye
    Registered Users Posts: 1,489 ✭✭✭john boye


    L1011 wrote: »
    Nitelinks are being re-based in price in stages to match Xpresso fares; this was stated in the fare determination last year.

    Wouldn't fancy being the poor driver having to explain that to the sozzled revellers when that comes in!


  • #49
    Irish Steve
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 6,521 Mod ✭✭✭✭Irish Steve


    In passing, as it's not been mentioned, there already is a 24 hour service operating in the Dublin area, albeit not Dublin Bus. The 103/109 services operate from (approx) 06 to 23, and between those times, the 109A that during the day covers the Airport and DCU from Kells is re routed between the airport and Busaras, running every hour.
    That effectively provides a 24 hour service to Ashbourne and Ratoath, as well as the rest of the 109A route out to Kells.

    There are times when it's not exactly reliable time wise, but there's nothing new there.

    Shore, if it was easy, everybody would be doin it.😁



  • #50
    Stephen15
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,907 ✭✭✭Stephen15


    Irish Steve wrote: »
    In passing, as it's not been mentioned, there already is a 24 hour service operating in the Dublin area, albeit not Dublin Bus. The 103/109 services operate from (approx) 06 to 23, and between those times, the 109A that during the day covers the Airport and DCU from Kells is re routed between the airport and Busaras, running every hour.
    That effectively provides a 24 hour service to Ashbourne and Ratoath, as well as the rest of the 109A route out to Kells.

    There are times when it's not exactly reliable time wise, but there's nothing new there.

    Until the recession the Nitelink used to run 6 nights a week for a period of time. Problem with the BE service is that you can't get it within Dublin. As has been said before you can get to Ratoath for €6.90 on the bus but not Blanchardstown which would cost €20 in a taxi despite being nearer. Wasn't the 746 supposed to be made 24/7 back in the day but Aircoach objected?


  • #51
    Qrt
    Registered Users Posts: 1,618 ✭✭✭Qrt


    Stephen15 wrote: »
    Until the recession the Nitelink used to run 6 nights a week for a period of time. Problem with the BE service is that you can't get it within Dublin. As has been said before you can get to Ratoath for €6.90 on the bus but not Blanchardstown which would cost €20 in a taxi despite being nearer. Wasn't the 746 supposed to be made 24/7 back in the day but Aircoach objected?

    Private operators are always going to object to losing business. I wasn’t around, but I recall a taxi strike being reported on the RTÉ Archives, all because CIÉ wanted to introduce buses from the Airport to different hotels.


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  • #52
    LastStop
    Registered Users Posts: 308 ✭✭LastStop


    GM228 wrote: »
    I recall something from the NTA a few years ago where they said that Nitelink would start accepting FTP sometime in the future, but both DB and the Dept. of Social Welfare state FTP is not accepted on Nitelink.

    FTP has been accepted on N/Links for years. If a driver refuses you it's because they don't know their job.

    Also DB won't have a shortage of volunteers for the 24hr service plus the union have agreed terms already.. so that's all tied off.


  • #53
    Qrt
    Registered Users Posts: 1,618 ✭✭✭Qrt


    LastStop wrote: »
    FTP has been accepted on N/Links for years. If a driver refuses you it's because they don't know their job.

    Best thing to do is to use the right-hand validator, like we should all be using!


  • #54
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,503 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    john boye wrote: »
    Wouldn't fancy being the poor driver having to explain that to the sozzled revellers when that comes in!

    Why? It'll be cheaper


  • #55
    john boye
    Registered Users Posts: 1,489 ✭✭✭john boye


    L1011 wrote: »
    Why? It'll be cheaper

    Was just joking about the general confusion of it when they're boarding after a few, wasn't saying they'll be angry over it.


  • #56
    Jamie2k9
    Registered Users Posts: 10,662 ✭✭✭✭Jamie2k9


    Qrt wrote: »
    Best thing to do is to use the right-hand validator, like we should all be using!

    I would agree until i discovered recently there is an element of fraud taking place with these cards.


  • #57
    devnull
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,582 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    Jamie2k9 wrote: »
    I would agree until i discovered recently there is an element of fraud taking place with these cards.

    What kind of fraud?


  • #58
    Kermit.de.frog
    Registered Users Posts: 23,433 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    Wouldn't like to be a bus driver on such an all night route through Dublin city center at 3 am on a Thurs/Fri/Sat (or any night for that matter)!

    I'd say that would be a bloody awful experience.


  • #59
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,503 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Kermit.de.frog wrote: »
    Wouldn't like to be a bus driver on such an all night route through Dublin city center at 3 am on a Thurs/Fri/Sat (or any night for that matter)!

    I'd say that would be a bloody awful experience.

    We already have routes in the city centre at 3am on Friday and Saturday nights; and have had them Monday-Thursday in the past (when there were more nightclubs and longer opening)


  • #60
    Jamie2k9
    Registered Users Posts: 10,662 ✭✭✭✭Jamie2k9


    devnull wrote: »
    What kind of fraud?

    People using cards belong to others, no checks in place. In one particular case x person pays for train to Heuston and takes the bus instead of Luas because they are using mothers pass.....


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  • #61
    Kermit.de.frog
    Registered Users Posts: 23,433 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    L1011 wrote: »
    We already have routes in the city centre at 3am on Friday and Saturday nights; and have had them Monday-Thursday in the past (when there were more nightclubs and longer opening)

    Yes, but I still wouldn't like to be the bus driver.

    To say the city center is anarchic at that time on the weekends is an understatement.


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