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Will you be watching Ramadan Diaries this evening?

13

Comments

  • #62
    jmreire
    Registered Users Posts: 8,228 ✭✭✭jmreire


    Odhinn wrote: »
    I'm aware of that. However the actual removal of the real privilege of the church is a relatively recent thing, and something which is ongoing.






    So you think those in those ramadan diary slots believe any who leaves the faith should be killed?

    What those people in the Ramadan diary slots believe is not the question... It's what the Quran says is what counts, and the question is, " Is death the punishment for any Muslim who leaves Islam?


  • #63
    Baggly
    Registered Users Posts: 35,024 ✭✭✭✭Baggly


    Actually given the thread title and op, I'd say the content of the programme in question is very relevant.


  • #64
    Odhinn
    Registered Users Posts: 7,940 ✭✭✭Odhinn


    Baggly wrote: »
    Actually given the thread title and op, I'd say the content of the programme in question is very relevant.




    The content seems innocuous.


  • #65
    Baggly
    Registered Users Posts: 35,024 ✭✭✭✭Baggly


    I would agree.... My point is trying to Bring it around to content or practices from elsewhere in the world which wasn't the subject of the show seems reductive.


  • #66
    jmreire
    Registered Users Posts: 8,228 ✭✭✭jmreire


    Odhinn wrote: »
    The content seems innocuous.

    Of course it seems innocuous.., and indeed much of it is actually innocuous, depending on a persons interpretation of a particular passage or Surah in the Quran.


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  • #67
    Odhinn
    Registered Users Posts: 7,940 ✭✭✭Odhinn


    jmreire wrote: »
    Of course it seems innocuous.., and indeed much of it is actually innocuous, depending on a persons interpretation of a particular passage or Surah in the Quran.




    The fact is that you can't have a state broad caster doing something like the angelus and not allow some similar mentions for other faiths. That includes the orthodox lads,the jews, the protestants, the hindus, sikhs and whatever else floats peoples boats.


  • #68
    jmreire
    Registered Users Posts: 8,228 ✭✭✭jmreire


    Odhinn wrote: »
    The fact is that you can't have a state broad caster doing something like the angelus and not allow some similar mentions for other faiths. That includes the orthodox lads,the jews, the protestants, the hindus, sikhs and whatever else floats peoples boats.

    Of course, after all we are a democracy, but my comment was more in answer to your comment on biko's post

    "Quote:
    Originally Posted by biko View Post

    So you think those in those ramadan diary slots believe any who leaves the faith should be killed?


  • #69
    biko
    Registered Users Posts: 81,223 ✭✭✭✭biko


    Baggly wrote: »
    Also very much doubt ex-muslims in Ireland face death having renounced their faith, if we are comparing like with like in this 'Christian country'

    https://allianceofformermuslims.com/legalise-apostasy/

    Throughout the Muslim world, those who renounce Islam are faced with persecution and death. According to the 2019 Freedom of Thought Report of the International Humanist and Ethical Union, there are no less than twelve Muslim-majority countries in which apostasy is punishable by death.


  • #70
    biko
    Registered Users Posts: 81,223 ✭✭✭✭biko


    jmreire wrote: »
    So you think those in those ramadan diary slots believe any who leaves the faith should be killed?
    If they are god-fearing then probably.

    From the website of exmuslims in Ireland:

    The prescription of the death penalty for apostasy is derived from shari’ah – the legal code of Islam, which has remained fundamentally unalterable since the “closing of the gates” of ijtihad (inquiry) in the tenth century. In Sunan an-Nasa’i, the Prophet Muhammad plainly states “Whoever changes his religion, kill him” (hadith 4061). Thus, all four Sunni law schools, as well as the primary Shi’a school of thought, demand the killing of apostates.


  • #71
    biko
    Registered Users Posts: 81,223 ✭✭✭✭biko


    https://www.theguardian.com/global/2015/may/17/losing-their-religion-british-ex-muslims-non-believers-hidden-crisis-faith

    In UK, next door to us
    “If someone found out where I lived,” he explains, “they could burn my house down.”
    Why should such an understated figure, someone who describes himself as a “nobody”, speak as if he’s in a witness protection programme? The answer is that six years ago he decided to declare that he no longer accepted the fundamental tenets of Islam. He stopped being a believing Muslim and became instead an apostate.


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  • #72
    jmreire
    Registered Users Posts: 8,228 ✭✭✭jmreire


    biko wrote: »
    If they are god-fearing then probably.

    From the website of exmuslims in Ireland:

    The prescription of the death penalty for apostasy is derived from shari’ah – the legal code of Islam, which has remained fundamentally unalterable since the “closing of the gates” of ijtihad (inquiry) in the tenth century. In Sunan an-Nasa’i, the Prophet Muhammad plainly states “Whoever changes his religion, kill him” (hadith 4061). Thus, all four Sunni law schools, as well as the primary Shi’a school of thought, demand the killing of apostates.

    Biko, I think that this post is in answer to Odhinns post #61 ( above ) Personally, I'm fully aware of Islam's view of apostates.


  • #73
    ted1
    Registered Users Posts: 23,228 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    s1ippy wrote: »
    It always really interests me to find stuff out about Ramadan from people who do it. Intermittent fasting is in many religions including Catholicism, even though most people who claim to be Catholic don't observe the fast days anymore. There is actually a lot of research done into the benefits of fasting, though the concensus is that three days is the best period of fasting for it to have benefits to one's health.

    Last year around Ramadan I got a taxi home after a night out and the lad who dropped me home was Muslim. He was saying most of the taxi drivers do the night shift as they can't eat during the day, I thought it was a crafty loophole. He was also telling me about the class food they eat, gave me a recipe for Biryani I've made loads of times since.

    The level of contempt in here is unfortunate but not very surprising as certain sections of Irish society are totally insulated from ever encountering people of different cultures. Fortunately the generation growing up in Ireland now represent a wide variety of races and religions. Current trends seem to show that many will be atheist or agnostic due to readily available information when they start to question the tenets of their family's tradition. There will definitely be a lot more appreciation and acceptance of people when it comes to religion in about six or seven years when the current primary school kids finish secondary school.

    I’ve spent Ramadam last year in Oman, and had the honour of being invited to Iftar. Felt very privileged sitting on the ground breaking the fast with the governor and chief of police, eating goat and rice with my right hand.
    Very spiritual , respectful a dignified people


  • #74
    Baggly
    Registered Users Posts: 35,024 ✭✭✭✭Baggly


    biko wrote:
    Throughout the Muslim world, those who renounce Islam are faced with persecution and death. According to the 2019 Freedom of Thought Report of the International Humanist and Ethical Union, there are no less than twelve Muslim-majority countries in which apostasy is punishable by death.


    Having read that I can see Irish Muslims are lobbying the Irish government to work towards international abolition of a death penalty. However that doesn't address the point I made that you quoted and that has been discussed by other users. Is it employed in Ireland? Doubt it. Do the people on the show in question fear it in Ireland? No, imo.

    Biko why are you trying to Bring this discussion about a programme about Ramadan in Ireland back to the death penalty for apostasy everywhere else but Ireland.

    Do you get all religions have their bad points. And that not all discussions about religion have to focus on one aspect of that religion? And that bringing the discussion about Ramadan in Ireland back to apostasy elsewhere is very reductionist?


  • #75
    biko
    Registered Users Posts: 81,223 ✭✭✭✭biko


    Baggly wrote: »
    Biko why are you trying to Bring this discussion about a programme about Ramadan in Ireland back to the death penalty for apostasy everywhere else but Ireland.
    We should widen our scope and think outside of this island. What happens in UK today will happen in Ireland in 5/10 years, it's always been that way.

    I will stop if you think I'm going offtopic but I would urge everyone to ask their Muslim friends about correct punishment for someone who denounces Allah, or if they could be friends with gay people.
    Then ask your Jewish friends the same question.


  • #76
    AndyBoBandy
    Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 14,851 Mod ✭✭✭✭AndyBoBandy


    MOD: Thread moved to World Religions

    Please read the Charter HERE before posting as you are NO LONGER in AFTER HOURS & AH style posting will be dealt with severely.


  • #77
    Baggly
    Registered Users Posts: 35,024 ✭✭✭✭Baggly


    biko wrote: »
    We should widen our scope and think outside of this island. What happens in UK today will happen in Ireland in 5/10 years, it's always been that way.

    I will stop if you think I'm going offtopic but I would urge everyone to ask their Muslim friends about correct punishment for someone who denounces Allah, or if they could be friends with gay people.
    Then ask your Jewish friends the same question.

    I did think it was a bit off topic. I am sure there are other threads dedicated to the topic you are broaching.

    Its like someone starting a thread about the Angelus and someone else bringing up the Magdalene Launderies or the Church not making amends quickly enough etc etc.

    I also disagee about the UK necessarily being a forebear to what happens here for most things, but thats another discussion.


  • #78
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,917 ✭✭✭[Deleted User]


    biko wrote: »
    We should widen our scope and think outside of this island. What happens in UK today will happen in Ireland in 5/10 years, it's always been that way.

    I will stop if you think I'm going offtopic but I would urge everyone to ask their Muslim friends about correct punishment for someone who denounces Allah, or if they could be friends with gay people.
    Then ask your Jewish friends the same question.

    Something happens in the U.K. and we always follow within 5-10 years - When did divorce become legal in the U.K. among other things that have been legal in the U.K. for decades, that we have only recently voted to remove constitutional bans on?

    As for those of the Jewish faith, those that hold strong religious views would be similar as would Catholic and other Christian religious

    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-manchester-50434370

    People of Jewish faith should "give up their lives" rather than follow new government guidelines to teach children about LGBT relationships, an ultra-orthodox Jewish judge


  • #79
    Hector Savage
    Registered Users Posts: 8,810 ✭✭✭Hector Savage


    LeYouth wrote: »
    I'll have to start a thread about shyte or farting - that'll be more up your street.

    best thread on the site...


  • #80
    LeYouth
    Closed Accounts Posts: 161 ✭✭LeYouth


    Hector Savage wrote: »
    best thread on the site...

    Well i wasn't giving out about it!


  • #81
    biko
    Registered Users Posts: 81,223 ✭✭✭✭biko


    Locals of England looking at Germany in late 1500s:
    "They're burning witches over there. At least it won't come here."

    Local of England mid 1600s
    "Kill the witches!"

    Modern intelligent locals 2020s:
    "Lol, that kinda craic won't happen again"

    Local of England in 1980s:
    "They're killing gays in Iran. At least it won't come here."

    ......


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  • #82
    Odhinn
    Registered Users Posts: 7,940 ✭✭✭Odhinn


    biko wrote: »
    Locals of England looking at Germany in late 1500s:
    "They're burning witches over there. At least it won't come here."

    Local of England mid 1600s
    "Kill the witches!"

    Modern intelligent locals 2020s:
    "Lol, that kinda craic won't happen again"

    Local of England in 1980s:
    "They're killing gays in Iran. At least it won't come here."

    ......




    Two minutes of what somebody is doing during ramadan = Sharia law and beheadings then. Not that you're stereotyping or anything.


  • #83
    biko
    Registered Users Posts: 81,223 ✭✭✭✭biko


    Should you not be as opposed to Ramadan Diaries as to the Angulus on TV?

    Have a discussion with your Muslim friends. Ask them if any version of Sharia should be implemented in Ireland.
    Ask if the Irish constitution or Sharia should guide Irish Muslims.


  • #84
    Baggly
    Registered Users Posts: 35,024 ✭✭✭✭Baggly


    I don't know who that question is aimed at but I reject the premise.

    People in Ireland have diverse religions. None of them that I am aware of practice anything radically dangerous such as you are talking about.

    If you want to talk about sharia law go ahead and do so in a thread about that....


  • #85
    Odhinn
    Registered Users Posts: 7,940 ✭✭✭Odhinn


    biko wrote: »
    Should you not be as opposed to Ramadan Diaries as to the Angulus on TV?


    I've said from the start that as one is given a certain privilege there can be little excuse to not afford the same to others.


    biko wrote: »
    Have a discussion with your Muslim friends. Ask them if any version of Sharia should be implemented in Ireland.
    Ask if the Irish constitution or Sharia should guide Irish Muslims.


    Rhetorical nonsense. You've no interest in a secular state, save where you can continue stereotyping and scaremongering the muslim minority in this state.


  • #86
    biko
    Registered Users Posts: 81,223 ✭✭✭✭biko


    Baggly wrote: »
    People in Ireland have diverse religions. None of them that I am aware of practice anything radically dangerous such as you are talking about.
    Two NUIG medical students died fighting for Islamic state after becoming radicalised while living in Galway
    Was it a once-off, or a theme - what do you think?
    Will we see less of things like this in the future, or more of things like this?


  • #87
    biko
    Registered Users Posts: 81,223 ✭✭✭✭biko


    Odhinn wrote: »
    Rhetorical nonsense. You've no interest in a secular state, save where you can continue stereotyping and scaremongering the muslim minority in this state.
    Of course I do, a secular state is the best way forward.
    But, it seems when I want less religion in society, you want more.
    And not only do you encourage it, you want a religion that allows killing gays, killing apostates, beats its women and allows for slaves.
    Don't take my word for it, ask any imam about these things I mentioned above.


  • #88
    Odhinn
    Registered Users Posts: 7,940 ✭✭✭Odhinn


    biko wrote: »
    Of course I do, a secular state is the best way forward.
    But, it seems when I want less religion in society, you want more.
    And not only do you encourage it, you want a religion that allows killing gays, killing apostates, beats its women and allows for slaves.
    Don't take my word for it, ask any imam about these things I mentioned above.




    More stereotypes, lazy generalisations and rhetorical nonsense.


  • #89
    Baggly
    Registered Users Posts: 35,024 ✭✭✭✭Baggly


    biko wrote: »
    Two NUIG medical students died fighting for Islamic state after becoming radicalised while living in Galway
    Was it a once-off, or a theme - what do you think?
    Will we see less of things like this in the future, or more of things like this?

    Again, this didnt happen in Ireland.....It has nothing to do with the OP.....and unless you can produce more evidence, it seems to be in a huge minority of cases in terms of muslims.

    Im out - im sorry ive tried to be respectful.... but you dont actually seem open to the points im making.


  • #90
    biko
    Registered Users Posts: 81,223 ✭✭✭✭biko


    Ok , we'll leave it there as it doesn't seem we will agree on any of this.
    That's fine, arguing and trying to get one's point across is what discussion is all about.


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  • #91
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 33,801 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    AlekSmart wrote: »
    Secondly,at a time when direct Catholic church involvement in Irish primary and secondary education is being wound-down

    What makes you think that? :confused:
    The only thing that has changed is that it has been made harder (not illegal, harder) for RC controlled schools to discriminate in enrolment on religious grounds. That's all.
    jmreire wrote: »
    Years ago, Irish schools were predominantly Catholic run

    Guess what - they still are.
    Now there is an increasing nr of secular schools, where religion is not on the curriculum at all...

    A tiny number of ETB secondary schools don't teach religion at all.
    All ET primaries teach religion
    About half of ETB secondary schools have a catholic ethos. The rest, apart from the handful mentioned above, are supposedly "multi-denominational" but still promote one or other or both of the big two churches. NB all ETB schools are fully State owned.
    It is a very optional subject at this time.

    Impossible to opt out at primary level as it's integrated throughout the curriculum in denominational schools (96% of the total.)

    Difficult to opt out in many secondary schools, and very few will allow another subject or even schoolwork / study to be done during that time.

    Life ain't always empty.



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