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[Article] Music-swapping sites to be blocked by internet providers

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Comments

  • #2
    PogMoThoin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,874 ✭✭✭✭PogMoThoin


    "similar websites", there are thousands, they gonna block access to google as well?


  • #3
    wheresmybeaver
    Registered Users Posts: 1,120 ✭✭✭wheresmybeaver


    Yay, now they're moving onto blocking websites with questionable content. I believe I have a basic right to unfiltered network access, after all that's what I assume I pay for. That should cover the entire internet imho. I am totally jumping ship if Eircom starts this kind of bull.

    Where does it stop? Will IRMA then look at streaming radio websites? Sure they provide music FOR FREE! They can't allow that kind of thing to go on! It's a slippery slope, as they say.


  • #4
    fryup
    Registered Users Posts: 18,069 ✭✭✭✭fryup


    i know the argument........"the likes of u2 and madonna are loaded who cares"..........but remember its the people down the line who gets pinched.....i.e. the aspiring artists, small music labels, record stores etc

    There is no two ways about it.......if its copyrighted then you should pay for it.


  • #5
    kaizersoze
    Registered Users Posts: 7,042 ✭✭✭kaizersoze


    The case against Pirate Bay itself doesn't seem to be going too well.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2009/feb/17/pirate-bay-internet


  • #6
    Donald-Duck
    Registered Users Posts: 1,119 ✭✭✭Donald-Duck


    wheresmybeaver wrote: »
    Yay, now they're moving onto blocking websites with questionable content. I believe I have a basic right to unfiltered network access, after all that's what I assume I pay for.

    No you don't. They can block you going onto any website they want.


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  • #7
    dunworth1
    Registered Users Posts: 5,286 ✭✭✭dunworth1


    will they block youtube as well


  • #8
    dunworth1
    Registered Users Posts: 5,286 ✭✭✭dunworth1


    Donald-Duck wrote: »
    No you don't. They can block you going onto any website they want.

    how do they have the right to do this


  • #9
    Cabaal
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 28,455 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cabaal


    Thread unlocked.

    However a few rules which people will get banned if they breech, standard Charter and Boards.ie also apply:

    - DO NOT link to sites that contain copyright material as per boards rules
    - This is not a thread to discuss were to obtain copyright material
    - Boards.ie is not here to give info on how you can break your ISP's T&C's

    Keep this thread on topic, its about ISP's blocking sites and IRMA's attempts to get ISP's to do this..

    It is not about Eircom and the recent agreement they've made to handle reported downloading of copyright material.....if you wish to discuss this go here....off-topic posts will be deleted

    Personally I would suggest you go along the lines of eff.org in relation to freedom of access and censorship from your ISP, I believe this is likely the best way to fight this.

    Cabaal,


  • #10
    Cabaal
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 28,455 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cabaal


    wheresmybeaver wrote: »
    I believe I have a basic right to unfiltered network access, after all that's what I assume I pay for. That should cover the entire internet imho. I am totally jumping ship if Eircom starts this kind of bull..

    There really is no basic right or human right in respect of this, you are paying for a internet connection and you agreed to T&C's and network policy when you subscribed to this service.

    Basically if its covered by T&C's that eircom can do this then its perfectly legal, if however it is not presently covered then Eircom would need to update their T&C's first.

    If IRMA get all ISP's to apply this then jumping from eircom won't make a bit of difference


  • #11
    Cabaal
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 28,455 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cabaal


    I am curious how IRMA would like Eircom to block sites, one would assume the easiest way of doing so would be by blocking it on their DNS servers but a fair number of people on boards.ie have switched to the likes of OpenDNS so that won't stop them I'd imagine.

    I guess the only way we'll know is when they start blocking The Pirate Bay,


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  • #12
    towel401
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,917 ✭✭✭towel401


    Cabaal wrote: »
    I am curious how IRMA would like Eircom to block sites, one would assume the easiest way of doing so would be by blocking it on their DNS servers but a fair number of people on boards.ie have switched to the likes of OpenDNS so that won't stop them I'd imagine.

    I guess the only way we'll know is when they start blocking The Pirate Bay,

    Even if they tried any other way Tor would still work. bastards


  • #13
    ionix5891
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,033 ✭✭✭ionix5891


    As I said before this is a slippery slope


    If you are an Eircom customer, switch tell them they suck, they quickly change their minds once stupid decisions not based on legal precedent backfire on them and shave their profit margins


    If your isp is threatened, contact the media! The IRMA are acting like a mafia racketeering organisation, once you give in to these people thats it your screwed

    Whats there to stop them blocking sites like youtube or bebo? plenty of copyrighted material there, actually i hope they are stupid enough to do that, once little Mary cant polish up her profile and listen to the latest chart ****e heads will roll :D


  • #14
    Cabaal
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 28,455 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cabaal


    ionix5891 wrote: »
    Whats there to stop them blocking sites like youtube or bebo? plenty of copyrighted material there, actually i hope they are stupid enough to do that, once little Mary cant polish up her profile and listen to the latest chart ****e heads will roll :D

    They won't block these sites as they are largely seen as legit sites which operate within the law, the pirate bay and others are largely seen to operate outside of the law


  • #15
    vibe666
    Registered Users Posts: 13,016 ✭✭✭✭vibe666


    there are so many different ways around every type of blocking they *could* implement it's not even funny.

    if china can't block it's citizens from accessing forbidden sites then i don't see that it will be any different here.

    people may not be very aware of the ways and means to get around these things but trust me that as soon as stuff people want access to is blocked, they'll start to get very creative and methods of circumventing whatever blocks are in place will be come common knowledge.

    and then you have the quagmire of European law to get though if you want to stomp on peoples freedoms on a large scale. i don't see them getting very far either way.


  • #16
    ionix5891
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,033 ✭✭✭ionix5891


    Cabaal wrote: »
    They won't block these sites as they are largely seen as legit sites which operate within the law, the pirate bay and others are largely seen to operate outside of the law

    if you were following the news you would know that the pirate bay are about to be cleared of all charges

    their court case is going very well for them

    will eircom still block them if they are cleared of all legal charges in court

    and what will you say then?

    btw you and me know youtube and bebo are much larger sites with alot of obvious copyrighted stuff (hiding behind DMCA safe harbour provision), they just dont have a catchy name like the pirate bay


  • #17
    ionix5891
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,033 ✭✭✭ionix5891


    vibe666 wrote: »
    there are so many different ways around every type of blocking they *could* implement it's not even funny.

    if china can't block it's citizens from accessing forbidden sites then i don't see that it will be any different here.

    people may not be very aware of the ways and means to get around these things but trust me that as soon as stuff people want access to is blocked, they'll start to get very creative and methods of circumventing whatever blocks are in place will be come common knowledge.

    and then you have the quagmire of European law to get though if you want to stomp on peoples freedoms on a large scale. i don't see them getting very far either way.

    yes some people would always find a way, but majority of "newbies" wouldn't and they will have no way of finding out as sites such as boards dont discuss information on how to circumvent censorship

    I dont feel comfortable with Chinese style censorship in this country just so it suits the music industry cartel

    its a slippery slope to hell


  • #18
    Chardee MacDennis
    Registered Users Posts: 9,225 ✭✭✭Chardee MacDennis


    ionix5891 wrote: »
    will eircom still block them if they are cleared of all legal charges in court



    Irish law and Swedish law arent the same especially in respect to copyright....

    hoping to get site going tonight which people can use to email a number of people to display their disgust about eircoms recent decisions. each email will be addressed to eamon ryan, rex comb, the ceo of babcock & brown, brian cowen, john gormley, enda kenny and ruairi quinn. anyone else worth sending a complaint to? comeg maybe?

    also if anyone wants to help it would be great, just registered the domain there - in work at the moment but hoping to have somehting up around 9 tonight. keep an eye on boycotteircom.com


  • #19
    ionix5891
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,033 ✭✭✭ionix5891


    BastardPrince wrote: »
    Irish law and Swedish law arent the same especially in respect to copyright....

    hoping to get site going tonight which people can use to email a number of people to display their disgust about eircoms recent decisions. each email will be addressed to eamon ryan, rex comb, the ceo of babcock & brown, brian cowen, john gormley, enda kenny and ruairi quinn. anyone else worth sending a complaint to? comeg maybe?

    also if anyone wants to help it would be great, just registered the domain there - in work at the moment but hoping to have somehting up around 9 tonight. keep an eye on boycotteircom.com

    no but we are both in EU

    and theres no courtcase in Ireland against the pirate bay or any other such site

    whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty?

    if Eircom block a site that is ruled to be legal then it will smell very bad :(

    disclaimer: i hate bittorent i think its slow and i dont support illegal filesharing, but as someone working in IT industry i can see the huge amount of damage censorship can do to this country, note how none of the googles and facebooks originated in China, you cant grow large sites in an environment laced with censorship and fear


  • #20
    Cabaal
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 28,455 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cabaal


    ionix5891 wrote: »
    if you were following the news you would know that the pirate bay are about to be cleared of all charges

    their court case is going very well for them

    will eircom still block them if they are cleared of all legal charges in court

    and what will you say then?

    btw you and me know youtube and bebo are much larger sites with alot of obvious copyrighted stuff (hiding behind DMCA safe harbour provision), they just dont have a catchy name like the pirate bay

    First off no need to make your text larger, making you text larger does not get your point accross any better

    it doesn't matter if The Pirate Bay is cleared of all charges it is still largely seen as operating outside of the law, if they were operating within the law the would actively monitor what files people are linking to and remove them accordingly...something youtube and bebo do which has been seen by the general user and the media alike.

    Given that the pirate bay contains more links to copyright material then legal material is is seen as operating outside of the law


  • #21
    stevenmu
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 9,689 Mod ✭✭✭✭stevenmu


    Cabaal wrote: »
    There really is no basic right or human right in respect of this, you are paying for a internet connection and you agreed to T&C's and network policy when you subscribed to this service.

    Basically if its covered by T&C's that eircom can do this then its perfectly legal, if however it is not presently covered then Eircom would need to update their T&C's first.

    If IRMA get all ISP's to apply this then jumping from eircom won't make a bit of difference
    It could be argued that the Internet is inherently a dumb network with smart nodes (i.e. the network simply forwards packets, all the important stuff happens on servers/clients). Implementing filtering technologies is breaking that, and if an ISP does so they are no longer connecting customers to "the Internet" but just to "an internet" instead.

    I'm not sure if that argument would be successful, but it could be made.


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  • #22
    Burgo
    Registered Users Posts: 3,815 ✭✭✭Burgo


    Another sterling move by eircom,like what has already been said where will it end? Blocking sites will stop your average bebo'er for now but the people who they are trying to stop (heavy bandwidth users) will have a way around,and i think doing something like this will just make average users more internet savvy in the long run.


  • #23
    towel401
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,917 ✭✭✭towel401


    I think they want everyone to sign up to the now DRM-free music sites, and when everyone is signed up they bring back the DRM.


  • #24
    CiaranC
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,300 ✭✭✭CiaranC


    Cabaal wrote: »
    it doesn't matter if The Pirate Bay is cleared of all charges it is still largely seen as operating outside of the law
    What do you mean "largely seen"? By who? What law have they broken?


  • #25
    ionix5891
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,033 ✭✭✭ionix5891


    Cabaal wrote: »
    First off no need to make your text larger, making you text larger does not get your point accross any better

    it doesn't matter if The Pirate Bay is cleared of all charges it is still largely seen as operating outside of the law, if they were operating within the law the would actively monitor what files people are linking to and remove them accordingly...something youtube and bebo do which has been seen by the general user and the media alike.

    Given that the pirate bay contains more links to copyright material then legal material is is seen as operating outside of the law

    seen by whom? there is no legal precedent or case in Ireland against this site in particular (eircom wont stop at the pirate bay)

    this is censorship that is not grounded in any legal case or court order

    shame on eircom

    good thing i ditched them many years ago for poor customer service and overall rippoff

    also @Cabaal please answer why all the moderators have taken such a stance on this matter? are them Eircom ads all over the site (one in bottom of this thread) paying Boards Ltd so well, censorship will hurt boards.ie one day too, i hope yee can see that for all our sakes


  • #26
    Burgo
    Registered Users Posts: 3,815 ✭✭✭Burgo


    Cabaal wrote: »
    it doesn't matter if The Pirate Bay is cleared of all charges it is still largely seen as operating outside of the law.
    well if they are cleared of all charges in a court of law,doesnt that mean anything? or will we just ignore it since we know they are guilty anyway.


  • #27
    towel401
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,917 ✭✭✭towel401


    ionix5891 wrote: »
    Eircom ads all over the site (one in bottom of this thread) paying Boards Ltd so well

    there are ads on this site? adblock plus ftw


  • #28
    ionix5891
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,033 ✭✭✭ionix5891


    towel401 wrote: »
    there are ads on this site? adblock plus ftw

    yes I find it quite ironic

    any ways Eircom should have had the balls and followed this in court, or raised it to the EU courts level where they either would have won or the IRMA would have backed down

    they got bullied into a corner and its gonna end up hurting consumers (thats us) I fail to understand how that can be *good*


  • #29
    towel401
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,917 ✭✭✭towel401


    ionix5891 wrote: »
    yes I find it quite ironic

    any ways Eircom should have had the balls and followed this in court, or raised it to the EU courts level where they either would have won or the IRMA would have backed down

    they got bullied into a corner and its gonna end up hurting consumers (thats us) I fail to understand how that can be *good*

    i hope this will backfire on them but really it won't. Pirated music is what got the whole broadband thing started but crappy low-energy centralised social networking and video sites are what will keep it going. the likes of youtoob that will take down anything that is asked.

    soon google will handle 100% of all email as people take the lazy way out and close down their own server. so they can censor that too. they'll make it impossible to get by without using the big content providers

    stereotypical forum mods seem to support DRM and be totally against piracy. but i think its just a stance - they probably have a torrent client running in the background themselves


  • #30
    Cabaal
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 28,455 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cabaal


    CiaranC wrote: »
    What do you mean "largely seen"? By who? What law have they broken?

    ISP's, The media, other websites the vast majority of users on pretty much any site...there's a very good reason why if you link to it on boards.ie you get banned.

    Bottom line is goto The Pirate Bay today and list all the legal linked torrents versus illegal...come back to me with the numbers :)
    ionix5891 wrote: »

    also @Cabaal please answer why all the moderators have taken such a stance on this matter? are them Eircom ads all over the site (one in bottom of this thread) paying Boards Ltd so well, censorship will hurt boards.ie one day too, i hope yee can see that for all our sakes

    Stance how and on what exactly?


    towel401 wrote: »
    stereotypical forum mods seem to support DRM and be totally against piracy. but i think its just a stance - they probably have a torrent client running in the background themselves

    Hang on now, nobody is discussing DRM, Mods are here to ensure boards.ie operates correctly, so if people are discussing downloading and sharing copyright material then it is the mods job to deal with those posts.

    You signed upto an ISP who clearly outlines that downloading copyright material over their network is against the T&C's, do you not agree with this?

    If you have a problem with what can and cannot be discussed on boards.ie then take it to Help Desk or create your own site and link to as many torrent sites/files as you want...


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  • #31
    ionix5891
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,033 ✭✭✭ionix5891


    towel401 wrote: »
    i hope this will backfire on them but really it won't. Pirated music is what got the whole broadband thing started but crappy low-energy centralised social networking and video sites are what will keep it going. the likes of youtoob that will take down anything that is asked.

    soon google will handle 100% of all email as people take the lazy way out and close down their own server. so they can censor that too. they'll make it impossible to get by without using the big content providers

    stereotypical forum mods seem to support DRM and be totally against piracy. but i think its just a stance - they probably have a torrent client running in the background themselves

    what gets me is that since Eircom is the largest ISP this might force other ISPs to follow

    now that would be abuse of their monopoly status on ADSL and is unfair on consumers who might want their broadband broad and unfiltered

    whichever way the moderators here spin it (they seem to be the only ones in favor of this strangely) this is censorship that is not grounded in law

    look thru the headlines on tech sites today, If you were a Google of this world would you think twice before investing here (terrible economic policies aside)

    grrr this is maddening

    Cabaal wrote: »
    ISP's, The media, other websites the vast majority of users on pretty much any site...there's a very good reason why if you link to it on boards.ie you get banned.

    Bottom line is goto The Pirate Bay today and list all the legal linked torrents versus illegal...come back to me with the numbers :)...

    yes but no legal court or law has ruled that they are illegal

    here read this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presumption_of_innocence its one of the foundations of all western legal systems, this Eircom **** undermines that, do I really need to spell it out? but then again it says "Authoritarian" next to your username, perhaps we should dispense with our capitalist/socialist system and turn communist, that worked out great in the past.

    you really are missing the big elephant in the room here Cabal i am sorry to say it, since this is the internet i might not be able to change your opinion that censorship is bad and a slippery slope but i will damn try hard to ensure that poor Eircom users understand that they are being screwed (again) and this will affect other ISPs and their customers

    .


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