Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Hi all,
Vanilla are planning an update to the site on April 24th (next Wednesday). It is a major PHP8 update which is expected to boost performance across the site. The site will be down from 7pm and it is expected to take about an hour to complete. We appreciate your patience during the update.
Thanks all.

Menupages.ie - negative reviews are removed

24567…10

Comments

  • #32
    AARRRGH
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,382 ✭✭✭✭AARRRGH


    That is a lie.

    I have an e-mail from your company saying the review was removed because the restaurant (a "premium" member) wanted it removed. Do you want me to post the e-mail?

    The two negative things I said were -

    1. The dessert was frozen and tasteless.
    2. I left the restaurant feeling a bit angry as I paid a lot of money for very little food.

    Again, your e-mail specifically says the restaurant asked for the review to be removed, and there is nothing litigious or obscene in my review.

    All my friends have also had reviews removed, and I assure you they are decent people who would not say anything litigious or obscene.

    Note my review was on your site for a few days, so obviously your company thought it was ok.

    You are just going to make this situation worse by lying. We are not stupid.


  • #33
    Darragh29
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,097 ✭✭✭Darragh29


    "Try MenuPages.ie for a fast objective guide to eating out in Dublin."

    Quote from Menupages website link below:

    http://www.menupages.ie/AboutUs

    There's an obvious conflict of interest here that can't be reconciled by the company spokesperson. Putting the e-mail address at the end of the mail is just an attempt to drag exchanges into a private discussion by way of e-mail instead of having it here.


  • #34
    zazzywandra
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3 ✭zazzywandra


    Darragh, firstly, there is nothing sinister in putting my email up at all - I have received 2 great suggestions from other boards users from this thread who obviously have no problem with it. I'm happy to chat in public or private - whatever puts our users at ease.

    Secondly, AARRRGH from your posting, I know who you are now and what happened in your case - you ate in EasT restaurant and after your review was posted the restaurant wanted to put things right and offered you a full free meal for you and a friend.

    Most of the restaurants site take complaints very seriously and EasT seems to be no exception. It is our policy, in cases where restaurants offer to fix problems and to have diners back to their restaurant free of charge, to put a review on "hold", pending the outcome of the revisit to the restaurant. In most cases, our users write another review (overwriting the previous one). Where users do not take up the restaurants offer or where they do not write another review after the free night out, their original bad review is reinstated. In this case Darragh, you turned the restaurants offer down and we put your review back on the site - in totality and unamended.

    I think it good form that restaurants make an effort to put things right when they have messed up. Most of our users are delighted at the chance to have their faith in the relevant restaurant restored.

    On this occasion AARRRGH, you didn't let the restaurant do that - so your review was put back on the site.

    After your comments and concerns I will amend our site Terms & Conditions to help users understand what we do and why we do it. I accept that we should have let you know about the offer of free dining before you emailed us - but you were very fast, you beat us to it and for that I am sorry.

    Regarding your friends missing reviews, you should note that reviews over 300 days old fall off the restaurant page however they stay within the membership section where members can view their old reviews and update them at any time. The 300 day fall off is because reviews get old and out of date and this was deemed the cut off when the site was built 2 years ago. I will also note this in new T&C's on the site shortly so that there is full transparency on the site.

    I am happy to post the email you received from us here myself where the general manager tried to put things right - we have nothing to hide.

    I have to say, I'm not sure I and the web site deserve the beating up that you are giving us when this actually started with a restaurant just trying to do the right thing after you had a bad night out.

    I will leave it with you,
    Sandra

    EMAIL FROM GENERAL MANAGER TO AARRRGH

    " Dear XXX
    I received your email enquiring about your review. The reason I removed your review was because I had been speaking with the owner of EAsT who has invited you and a friend back to the restaurant as his guest in order to try and rectify your poor experience.

    This is standard practice and as you can see from 1000's of other negative reviews on the site we don't remove them because of poor star ratings!

    The owners name is Moon and he is looking forward to hearing from you.

    Regards
    Richard Kavanagh
    General Manager
    Menupages.ie "


  • #35
    AARRRGH
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,382 ✭✭✭✭AARRRGH


    zazzywandra wrote: »
    Secondly, AARRRGH from your posting, I know who you are now and what happened in your case - you ate in EasT restaurant

    Yep, that's me.

    zazzywandra wrote: »
    It is our policy, in cases where restaurants offer to fix problems and to have diners back to their restaurant free of charge, to put a review on "hold", pending the outcome of the revisit to the restaurant. In most cases, our users write another review (overwriting the previous one). Where users do not take up the restaurants offer or where they do not write another review after the free night out, their original bad review is reinstated. In this case AARRRGH, you turned the restaurants offer down and we put your review back on the site - in totality and unamended.

    On this occasion AARRRGH, you didn't let the restaurant do that - so your review was put back on the site.

    I want to give you the benefit of the doubt on this, but I had to contact you asking why my review was taken offline - you did not contact me offering me a free meal - you only offered me that after I complained.

    Also, I have asked my friends if they ever got offered free meals after their negative reviews were removed, and none of them recall you ever contacting them.

    zazzywandra wrote: »
    Regarding your friends missing reviews, you should note that reviews over 300 days old fall off the restaurant page however they stay within the membership section where members can view their old reviews and update them at any time.

    Fair enough, that sounds like a good system.

    zazzywandra wrote: »
    I have to say, I'm not sure I and the web site deserve the beating up that you are giving us when this actually started with a restaurant just trying to do the right thing after you had a bad night out.

    No, you removed my negative review because the restaurant asked you to do so. I don't really believe your explanation above (as stated, none of my friends have every received offers of free meals, and I had to contact you) but I will give you the benefit of the doubt and hope going forward your policies are more transparent.

    My intention wasn't to beat up your website, but rather, I have a strong dislike of dishonesty and things I consider to be unfair.


  • #36
    faceman
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 16,584 CMod ✭✭✭✭faceman


    Great initiative Sandra in coming to boards to speak about menupages.ie.

    From my own experience, i dont post reviews to the site but i do use it regularly for advise on where to go, its an easy to use site with great content.

    I am however surprised that some reviews are removed in that fashion. While i completely agree that restaurants should be allowed to remedy a negative experience, I believe it should be left up to the reviewer to make the call on whether or not their review should be removed. After all, a revisit at the expense of the restaurant is an excellent gesture, doesnt change the fact that the reviewer's original experience was poor.

    Perhaps a system where the suer agrees to amend or update their review on revisit may be more favourable. it maintains the integrity of reviewers and offers restaurants the opportunity to show that they take negative feedback seriously and strive to improve things based on the feedback.

    I would have a higher opinion of a restaurant that had remedied a negative experience rather than a restaurant that had bog standard relatively positive reviews. If that makes sense.

    Anyway thats my 2c. Hopefully it can be taken in a constructive fashion. :)


  • Advertisement
  • #37
    zazzywandra
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3 ✭zazzywandra


    Ok - I take both of your points on board and I commit to have amended T&C's on the site (in an obvious place) explaining how the site works within the next 4 weeks. You can hold me to it!

    Thanks for the comments - I do appreciate them.
    S


  • #38
    AARRRGH
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,382 ✭✭✭✭AARRRGH


    Another thing on the negative experience being removed... it reminds me a bit of when restaurant reviewers warn a restaurant they'll be there that night. That's a bit of a cop out as the staff know to be on their best behaviour.

    The fact of the matter is EaSt provided me with a fairly shoddy experience. If I went back for their free meal of course they are going to do everything to make sure I am happy.

    So in my opinion that would not be a "real" dining experience, and cannot be compared to the real, negative experience I had a few weeks ago.


  • #39
    Darragh29
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,097 ✭✭✭Darragh29


    Sounds to me like the rules are being made up as they go along. :rolleyes:

    FYI, I didn't post any feedback on the website good bad or indifferent, because I don't rate the website at all, it's all over the place, poorly arranged and generally depressing to look at...


  • #40
    Hitchhiker's Guide to...
    Registered Users Posts: 3,322 ✭✭✭Hitchhiker's Guide to...


    I started reading this thread thinking "those underhand feckers at menupages". But serious kudos to Sandra for coming on and explaining the reasons. It seems a very reasonable explanation, and any potential misunderstanding is now going to be cleared up in the T&Cs.

    Let's give credit where credit is due ...


  • #41
    AARRRGH
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,382 ✭✭✭✭AARRRGH


    Well, can anyone who has had their negative reviews removed (within 300 days) confirm they were offered a free meal (via menupages) in the restaurant they reviewed?


  • Advertisement
  • #42
    faceman
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 16,584 CMod ✭✭✭✭faceman


    Darragh29 wrote: »
    Sounds to me like the rules are being made up as they go along. :rolleyes:

    FYI, I didn't post any feedback on the website good bad or indifferent, because I don't rate the website at all, it's all over the place, poorly arranged and generally depressing to look at...

    Right, well why not offer some constructive criticism on how they can improve things?
    AARRRGH wrote: »
    Well, can anyone who has had their negative reviews removed (within 300 days) confirm they were offered a free meal (via menupages) in the restaurant they reviewed?

    ultimately its up to the restaurant to offer the meal as opposed to menupages I expect.


  • #43
    AARRRGH
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,382 ✭✭✭✭AARRRGH


    faceman wrote: »
    ultimately its up to the restaurant to offer the meal as opposed to menupages I expect.

    Sorry I meant has menupages contacted them on behalf of the restaurant offering a free meal in return for their negative review being taken offline. (I think that's what Sandra was saying happens.)

    Btw, I hope it turns out a few people have been contacted, so this fairytale can have a happy ending. :)


  • #44
    eth0_
    Registered Users Posts: 10,846 ✭✭✭✭eth0_


    zazzywandra wrote: »

    Secondly, AARRRGH from your posting, I know who you are now and what happened in your case - you ate in EasT restaurant and after your review was posted the restaurant wanted to put things right and offered you a full free meal for you and a friend.
    .... It is our policy, in cases where restaurants offer to fix problems and to have diners back to their restaurant free of charge, to put a review on "hold", pending the outcome of the revisit to the restaurant. In most cases, our users write another review (overwriting the previous one).

    So essentially you are allowing restaurants to bribe your users?

    It's pretty black and white that that is what you are saying.

    If I have a sh*t experience in a restaurant and I complain, I am unlikely to return for a free meal, and if I *were* to return, they're obviously going to pull out all the stops so I won't speak negatively of their establishment to my friends!

    Therefore, people who re-write their review in a case like that are not being objective as they are not experiencing a "genuine" dining experience.


  • #45
    ntlbell
    Registered Users Posts: 16,288 ✭✭✭✭ntlbell


    what they could do is send out a gift voucher for the meal.

    This way they wouldn't know it was you returning until it came to cough the cash stopping them from pulling out all the stops so you could get a genuine dining experience

    But besides the point menu pages this behavior is a disgrace, it's one thing coming on to boards to listen and respond but it seems you have responded with more lies only making the matter look worse.

    a disgrace


  • #46
    Welease
    Registered Users Posts: 3,834 ✭✭✭Welease


    eth0_ wrote: »
    So essentially you are allowing restaurants to bribe your users?

    It's pretty black and white that that is what you are saying.

    If I have a sh*t experience in a restaurant and I complain, I am unlikely to return for a free meal, and if I *were* to return, they're obviously going to pull out all the stops so I won't speak negatively of their establishment to my friends!

    Therefore, people who re-write their review in a case like that are not being objective as they are not experiencing a "genuine" dining experience.

    Actually i think it shows a good element of taking any criticism seriously. Mistakes happen and issues do arise, rather than ignore it the restaurants are offering a free meal as compensation. This costs them hard cash and is a much better response than a worded response on a web page.
    If they are truely that bad, then they will be soon out of business giving away free meals. If not, then shouldnt they have the chance to respond and make good on the situation?


  • #47
    ntlbell
    Registered Users Posts: 16,288 ✭✭✭✭ntlbell


    Welease wrote: »
    Actually i think it shows a good element of taking any criticism seriously. Mistakes happen and issues do arise, rather than ignore it the restaurants are offering a free meal as compensation. This costs them hard cash and is a much better response than a worded response on a web page.
    If they are truely that bad, then they will be soon out of business giving away free meals. If not, then shouldnt they have the chance to respond and make good on the situation?

    They're not offering a meal because there was a problem with the meal.

    they're now offering the meal because there were caught removing bad feedback from the website

    huge difference..


  • #48
    Welease
    Registered Users Posts: 3,834 ✭✭✭Welease


    ntlbell wrote: »
    They're not offering a meal because there was a problem with the meal.

    they're now offering the meal because there were caught removing bad feedback from the website

    huge difference..

    I thought Arrrgh had said that it had been confirmed plenty of people had been offered free meals, and he was now happy?

    Seems like a decent enough process to me.. If you take the free meal the review is removed, but you are free to review it again. If not, then the review stays.. (although i may have missed something here :))


  • #49
    aidan_walsh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,208 ✭✭✭✭aidan_walsh


    ntlbell wrote: »
    They're not offering a meal because there was a problem with the meal.

    they're now offering the meal because there were caught removing bad feedback from the website

    huge difference..
    Right...
    It is our policy, in cases where restaurants offer to fix problems and to have diners back to their restaurant free of charge, to put a review on "hold", pending the outcome of the revisit to the restaurant. In most cases, our users write another review (overwriting the previous one). Where users do not take up the restaurants offer or where they do not write another review after the free night out, their original bad review is reinstated.


  • #50
    dahamsta
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16,659 ✭✭✭✭dahamsta


    I don't agree that this is a good policy. The original review should remain, with a note explaining the ongoing process. If the reviewer adds a new review, the original should point to it. Anyone with a brain should realise that this is the most transparent and fair procedure.

    adam


  • #51
    faceman
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 16,584 CMod ✭✭✭✭faceman


    Of course the alternative to this big episode is that a "restaurant review" sub forum is created on boards...


  • Advertisement
  • #52
    Shelflife
    Registered Users Posts: 3,073 ✭✭✭Shelflife


    Simple thing would be to give the unhappy poster the option of recieving vouchers, if the poster agrees the the bad review is suspended pending a second chance from the restaurant.

    The poster has his meal and then produces the vouchers thus ensuring that they have had a genuine dining experience.

    the poster can then decide whether or not to unsuspend the initial review or not.

    Btw kudos to sandra for coming on to sort out the problems.


  • #53
    aidan_walsh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,208 ✭✭✭✭aidan_walsh


    DaMelodrama wrote: »
    I don't agree that this is a good policy. The original review should remain, with a note explaining the ongoing process. If the reviewer adds a new review, the original should point to it. Anyone with a brain should realise that this is the most transparent and fair procedure.

    adam
    I disagree. If you leave the original as it is, whats to stop people trying to game the site with bad reviews so they can get a free meal afterwards?


  • #54
    dahamsta
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16,659 ✭✭✭✭dahamsta


    If you leave it as-is, what's to stop restaurateurs trying to game the site by sending fake offers over and over again?

    People will always try to game the system, it's up to the operator of the system to monitor for abuse and deal with it. If they can't, they're in the wrong business.

    adam


  • #55
    Darragh29
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,097 ✭✭✭Darragh29


    Basically you have the option of "trading in", your poor experience for a free meal, if this option is made available to you. This option is unworkable not to mention unfair because it will incentivise some people to post poor feedback where it is not warranted, for the purposes of chancing their arm for a free meal. This isn't fair on restaurants, it exposes them to a form of blackmail.

    Notice than in 100% of cases, it is the restaurant that will have to pick up the cost associated with this and not menupages, whether the poor feedback is justified or not.

    Also notice that there was absolutely no mention of this scheme until the subject of deleted feedback was raised on this thread.


  • #56
    Darragh29
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,097 ✭✭✭Darragh29


    faceman wrote: »
    Of course the alternative to this big episode is that a "restaurant review" sub forum is created on boards...

    Excellent idea, and the beauty of it would be that it wouldn't be literally plastered with shabbily designed 3rd party advertising. You can't even navigate the menupages website because a big fu*k off Vodafone ad keeps jumping up all over the place, and when you try to close it down, it jumps straight back up again. This would have to be the worst designed website I've seen in some time, it's depressing to look at...


  • #57
    AARRRGH
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,382 ✭✭✭✭AARRRGH


    Welease wrote: »
    I thought Arrrgh had said that it had been confirmed plenty of people had been offered free meals, and he was now happy?

    No, I do not know of any other person who was offered a free meal, and I was only offered a free meal after I complained my negative review was removed.


  • #58
    Welease
    Registered Users Posts: 3,834 ✭✭✭Welease


    AARRRGH wrote: »
    No, I do not know of any other person who was offered a free meal, and I was only offered a free meal after I complained.


    My bad.. i misread what you wrote
    "Btw, I hope it turns out a few people have been contacted, so this fairytale can have a happy ending. smile.gif
    user_online.gifreport.gif "

    I missed the "I hope".. apologies..


  • #59
    faceman
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 16,584 CMod ✭✭✭✭faceman


    Darragh29 wrote: »
    Excellent idea, and the beauty of it would be that it wouldn't be literally plastered with shabbily designed 3rd party advertising. You can't even navigate the menupages website because a big fu*k off Vodafone ad keeps jumping up all over the place, and when you try to close it down, it jumps straight back up again. This would have to be the worst designed website I've seen in some time, it's depressing to look at...

    The best place is to ask is the Food and Drink forum, see my post below:

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=57610729#post57610729


  • #60
    dahamsta
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16,659 ✭✭✭✭dahamsta


    Sandra's been accusing me of being "hidden behind a computer" on my blog btw, despite the fact that my name, what I do and where I work are on the About page, linked from every page on the site. I'd make a comment about her competence but she'd probably send me a solicitor's letter for "Being Naughty" or something. :rolleyes:

    I'm pretty sure I'm one of the least anonymous people on Boards.ie.

    I agree that their site is awful btw. Said so earlier.

    adam


  • Advertisement
  • #61
    faceman
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 16,584 CMod ✭✭✭✭faceman


    DaMelodrama wrote: »
    Sandra's been accusing me of being "hidden behind a computer" on my blog btw, despite the fact that my name, what I do and where I work are on the About page, linked from every page on the site. I'd make a comment about her competence but she'd probably send me a solicitor's letter for "Being Naughty" or something. :rolleyes:

    I'm pretty sure I'm one of the least anonymous people on Boards.ie.

    I agree that their site is awful btw. Said so earlier.

    adam

    In fairness she does have a point, most people do hide behind their computer on boards.ie. How many people get called names online that the poster wouldnt dare call to your face.

    Personally i dont think a very negative attitude has been taken to her efforts to address the concerns and while Im not saying that she is incorrect with her views on individual's tales, she is making the effort to address them.

    If you feel that strongly about it and want to avoid flame wars online, why not just give her a call?

    EDIT: Im not trying to diss you or your opinion either. If it was me and i felt as strongly as you, I would probably call her to discuss my concerns. But then again Im a kranky fart and so stuff like that!


This discussion has been closed.
Advertisement