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Victory for electoral fraud

24567…14

Comments

  • #32
    stefanovich
    Registered Users Posts: 5,490 ✭✭✭stefanovich


    pablomakaveli wrote: »
    How do you know that those people were out more than 18 months? And more importantly how do you know that their votes would have changed the outcome of the vote?
    Regardless of the outcome, someone voting when they are not entitled makes a mockery of the system.


  • #33
    pablomakaveli
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,752 ✭✭✭pablomakaveli


    stefanovich wrote: »
    Regardless of the outcome, someone voting when they are not entitled makes a mockery of the system.

    Again any proof they were gone longer than 18 months?


  • #34
    AndonHandon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,384 ✭✭✭AndonHandon


    For a general election I feel angry and militant that emigrants shouldn't be allowed to vote as a government lasts such a short stint so they shouldn't be allowed decide what does not effect them. But a Constitutional amendment is long-term so I encourage those who care about Ireland to contribute.


  • #35
    stefanovich
    Registered Users Posts: 5,490 ✭✭✭stefanovich


    pablomakaveli wrote: »
    Again any proof they were gone longer than 18 months?
    Use your head. Of course some percentage were gone longer than 18 months.


  • #36
    GavRedKing
    Registered Users Posts: 53,262 ✭✭✭✭GavRedKing


    Toys are being flung from the pram and the lemons are as bitter as ever, it is truly a glorious day.


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  • #37
    bpmurray
    Registered Users Posts: 1,275 ✭✭✭bpmurray


    stefanovich wrote: »
    Lots of third hand information.

    Yeah, I suppose it's people with surnames like "Stefanovich" - they're obviously not Irish.


  • #38
    SterlingArcher
    Registered Users Posts: 2,767 ✭✭✭SterlingArcher


    someone sounds butt hurt. The irony.


  • #39
    pablomakaveli
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,752 ✭✭✭pablomakaveli


    stefanovich wrote: »
    Use your head. Of course some percentage were gone longer than 18 months.

    I'll take that as a no then.


  • #40
    The Backwards Man
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,299 ✭✭✭✭The Backwards Man


    stefanovich wrote: »
    Regardless of the outcome, someone voting when they are not entitled makes a mockery of the system.

    Any system that demands you relinquish your constitutional rights voluntarily deserved to be mocked. But that's not the issue here. Your accusing thousands of people of committing fraud with no proof. That's not on at all mucker.


  • #41
    Larbre34
    Registered Users Posts: 23,796 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    stefanovich wrote: »
    What this referendum has highlighted even more clearly is the lack of security in our electoral system, how broken and open to abuse it is.

    66,000 non-residents return to vote yes. Enda is overjoyed.

    Non-Irish registered and voting and proud.

    A disgraceful distortion of the reality.

    66,000 new voters registered during the period of the supplement to the register being prepared.

    Those figures include citizens turning 18 and younger voters who may have already be older than 18 but have not bothered registering before now.

    Of those that travelled from abroad to vote, they included permanent Irish residents and citizens who might be spending weeks or months abroad for business, educational or leisure purposes, but whose homes are in Ireland and are absolutely entitled to cast a ballot.

    You can have no knowledge of the actual numbers of people you accuse you committing a fraud and i think you need to stop commenting in that fashion.


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  • #42
    ccdust
    Registered Users Posts: 13 ✭ccdust


    The 66,000 figure is the number of new voters who registered ahead of this referendum, not the number who came home to vote.


  • #43
    PlainP
    Closed Accounts Posts: 714 ✭✭✭PlainP


    Sour grapes much OP.

    I'm so proud to be Irish today.


  • #44
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    ccdust wrote: »
    The 66,000 figure is the number of new voters who registered ahead of this referendum, not the number who came home to vote.


    Shush now, this isn't a thread for facts, its for bitterness and grieving.


  • #45
    Mesrine65
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,969 ✭✭✭Mesrine65


    Sweet, warm tea will wash down that bitter pill OP ;)


  • #46
    MathDebater
    Registered Users Posts: 958 ✭✭✭MathDebater


    aaakev wrote: »
    Explain exactly how they are breaking the law?

    Sore looser much?

    Under section 5 of the Electoral Act 1963, it states:


    (4) For the purposes of this section—

    (a) a person shall be deemed not to have given up ordinary residence if he intends to resume residence within eighteen months after giving it up,

    (b) a written statement by a person that he intends to resume residence within eighteen months after giving it up shall, in the absence of evidence to the contrary, be conclusive evidence of that fact.

    http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1963/en/act/pub/0019/sec0005.html

    Those non resident for 18 months or who are non resident and plan to continue to be so for 18 months should not have voted yesterday.


  • #47
    bee06
    Registered Users Posts: 4,514 ✭✭✭bee06


    If you feel so strongly about it then you should report it. I'm sure there is some mechanism for reporting electoral fraud. No point in just ranting on boards about it.


  • #48
    seamus
    Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    The numbers who actually came home just to vote is likely to be four figures at most. Logistically you just can't get tens of thousands of people into the country at short notice over a 24 hour period unless you put on a lot of extra boats and planes.


  • #49
    galljga1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,938 ✭✭✭galljga1


    stefanovich wrote: »
    What this referendum has highlighted even more clearly is the lack of security in our electoral system, how broken and open to abuse it is.

    66,000 non-residents return to vote yes. Enda is overjoyed.

    Non-Irish registered and voting and proud.

    And they are off again. Nobody cares apart from a few disillusioned grumps.
    You have a choice of lemons or grapes.


  • #50
    stefanovich
    Registered Users Posts: 5,490 ✭✭✭stefanovich


    bee06 wrote: »
    If you feel so strongly about it then you should report it. I'm sure there is some mechanism for reporting electoral fraud. No point in just ranting on boards about it.
    It's not just one or two. The system is broken and there is widespread shenanigans going on.


  • #51
    Not a NSA agent
    Closed Accounts Posts: 781 ✭✭✭Not a NSA agent


    stefanovich wrote: »
    Hmm, 66,000 people travel back to vote. I wonder what percentage were out of the country more than 18 months?? Australia is a long way away.

    It could be anything between 0 and all. You dont know. People are innocent until proven guilty, not guilty as soon as you decide. You cant even use the 66k number right.


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  • #52
    Going Strong
    Registered Users Posts: 837 ✭✭✭Going Strong


    seamus wrote: »
    The numbers who actually came home just to vote is likely to be four figures at most. Logistically you just can't get tens of thousands of people into the country over a 24 hour period unless you put on a lot of extra boats and planes.

    They should have put on extra waambulances for No voters.


  • #53
    pablomakaveli
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,752 ✭✭✭pablomakaveli


    stefanovich wrote: »
    It's not just one or two. The system is broken and there is widespread shenanigans going on.

    I wonder would you have been as outraged if the No vote won.


  • #54
    To Elland Back
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,923 ✭✭✭To Elland Back


    In fairness, we have a system that doesn't serve to get a true representation from those that want to participate. Many people are away from their usual polling booths because of work, college or holidays. Many are unable to get to their polling booth through age or health related issues. Many who re-register to a convenient polling station, also continue to get a polling card at their original home.

    System is seriously flawed. Postal voting and swiping your PPS card to get a paper voting slip is the answer


  • #55
    aaakev
    Registered Users Posts: 3,088 ✭✭✭aaakev


    MathDebater wrote: »
    Under section 5 of the Electoral Act 1963, it states:


    (4) For the purposes of this section—

    (a) a person shall be deemed not to have given up ordinary residence if he intends to resume residence within eighteen months after giving it up,

    (b) a written statement by a person that he intends to resume residence within eighteen months after giving it up shall, in the absence of evidence to the contrary, be conclusive evidence of that fact.

    http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1963/en/act/pub/0019/sec0005.html

    Those non resident for 18 months or who are non resident and plan to continue to be so for 18 months should not have voted yesterday.
    I know a few people that came home to vote, none gone more tha 18 months. op picked a number out of the sky and accused them of breaking the law, a number which if the reports are anything to go by is going to be irrelevant to the outcome


  • #56
    MathDebater
    Registered Users Posts: 958 ✭✭✭MathDebater


    The Backwards Man wrote: »
    Fair play to them for using their vote, whatever way they vote. I know a lot of people, my own brother included, that was born here, schooled here, employed here, pay thousands of euro in tax here every year, and they have no say in the running of the country because they don't actually live here. I, for one, think that is wrong.

    Do you think that all Irish citizens abroad should be allowed vote? Do you realise what that will entail and what you would be opening us up to?


  • #57
    MathDebater
    Registered Users Posts: 958 ✭✭✭MathDebater


    pablomakaveli wrote: »
    I wonder would you have been as outraged if the No vote won.

    I wonder would the media be lavishing praise on those citizens coming home if they were Irish Americans from red states. It's not about the result. It's not about what way they were likely to vote. It's that it was happening and all our politicians and media outlets celebrated it.


  • #58
    Nymeria
    Registered Users Posts: 173 ✭✭Nymeria


    stefanovich wrote: »
    It's not just one or two. The system is broken and there is widespread shenanigans going on.

    Did you bring this up at the last referendum in 2013? if not, why not? Surely there would have been similar 'shenanigans' going on then, by your assertion of how widespread it is.

    Or is it simply the content of this referendum that bothers you...


  • #59
    The Backwards Man
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,299 ✭✭✭✭The Backwards Man


    MathDebater wrote: »
    Do you think that all Irish citizens abroad should be allowed vote? Do you realise what that will entail and what you would be opening us up to?

    I think an Irish citizen who works abroad for an Irish company and paying Irish tax should have a say in how the country is run. Do you think that they shouldn't?


  • #60
    pablomakaveli
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,752 ✭✭✭pablomakaveli


    MathDebater wrote: »
    Do you think that all Irish citizens abroad should be allowed vote? Do you realise what that will entail and what you would be opening us up to?

    Well i'm an emigrant and gone much longer than 18 months and i completely accept i no longr have the right to vote. I don't contribute to Ireland in taxes anymore and won't be returning for the foreseeable future. However there are some who are away for much shorter periods, for education or work, who do intend to return and they should be allowed vote and thats covered by the 18 month rule.
    MathDebater wrote: »
    I wonder would the media be lavishing praise on those citizens coming home if they were Irish Americans from red states. It's not about the result. It's not about what way they were likely to vote. It's that it was happening and all our politicians and media outlets celebrated it.

    But that didn't happen and couldn't happen because they'd never have been resident in Ireland. Again no proof that those that did return were gone longer than 18 months.


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  • #61
    Cold War Kid
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,353 ✭✭✭Cold War Kid


    stefanovich wrote: »
    What this referendum has highlighted even more clearly is the lack of security in our electoral system, how broken and open to abuse it is.
    How has it highlighted this? :confused:

    Although I did see some genius here on After Hours posting up a photo they took of their own ballot paper with a "X" in the No box.
    stefanovich wrote: »
    That is in fact incorrect. If they are out of the country more than 18 months they are breaking the law if they vote.

    If you are not Irish and you voted yesterday you are also breaking the law.
    How could you possibly have been breaking the law if you went to the polling station, presented yourself and your I.D./document, your name was crossed off the list and you were handed your balloting papers?

    I know the :confused: symbol can be annoying (when it's used disingenuously) but sometimes there really is no other symbol...


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