NPPR charges over €7000

Askthe EA wrote: »

Doubt that. GDPR.

You are indeed correct. Wasn't clear. They will tell you if you were paying the bill or not at the very least. Best place to start. The years they can't tell you about are still useful.

mickdw wrote: »

No sympathy. I see this catching alot of people however it was heavily advertised at the time but people just didn't bother.
The 200 or 250 per year was a small amount. What they then did was added 20 per month penalty. When this went to second year unpaid, you were paying 40 per month penalty etc.
There was then a period when people were allowed to pay 4k or so to completely discharge the debt and at that stage if you contacted the council there were option for part payment or instalments etc. If you still ignored all, it went to 7k plus and was to be recovered by revenue on sale or transfer of the property.
I believe that it will no longer be collected after a certain date so if you hold the property long enough it will be ok, otherwise it's owed and no way out if selling today.

Some interesting advice here. Am I right to understand that this charge becomes "dead, not collectable etc " after 2023 ?

I have a holiday home, purchased in 2007, did`nt pay the NPPR, was told by the County Council that I have to pay the €7200.

Property tax paid up to date by the way

I've done a spot of googling. Donegal CC have a cheat sheet in PDF form. it says the following:

.3 UNINHABITABLE
An exemption is being sought on the basis that the property was
uninhabitable. Copy of Land Registry Folio for the property, to be provided in
all cases.
 Photographs of the property and a declaration of the condition of the property,
including details of when it was last occupied, should be submitted as part of
a covering letter.
 Details of the planning reference number if the property is a new build.
 Alternatively, if the property is for sale, details of the estate agent who is
selling the property or a property brochure should be submitted.
 The following criteria is referenced in determining if a property is
uninhabitable:
 Does the property have a sound roof?
 Is it so affected by dampness as to make it unsuitable for habitation?
 Does it have toilet / bathroom facilities?
 Does it have a heating system?
 Does it have a water supply? (a supply that is disconnected only would
not deem a property uninhabitable).
 Does it have windows and doors?
 Does it have an electricity supply connected? (a supply that is
disconnected only would not deem a property uninhabitable)
 Is the house dilapidated and run down?
 Does it require major repairs to make it habitable?
A number of the above criteria will have to be met to deem the property
uninhabitable. If necessary, an inspection can be carried out following receipt of
the above information. If the property was undergoing renovations during the
years 2009 – 2013, evidence to support this, in the form of receipts, photographs,
etc, should be submitted.
The Council reserves the right to seek further clarification should the need
arise.

We'd have no issue with them inspecting it. In fact we applied for PP for a change of use in 2009 with photographs of the outside all boarded up. This might help. It would all be on record with SDCC.

splinter65 wrote: »

If it had a roof and a water supply and had the capability to be reconnected to electricity then it was habitable.

Are you familiar with the process? It does seem a little at odds with that Donegal CC memo, which us not as black and white.

Suckit wrote: »

I am enquiring about NPPR, what is it and does it have to be paid? Can it be disputed? Any advice at all.


Selling a house and she was told that she needed to pay NPPR charges of around €7500 (I don't know the exact figure).

When she queried what it was she was told that it is a charge for €200 per year between the years of 2009 - 2013, so she pointed out the obvious, which is that, that totals to €800.
She was then told that there is a fee for those that didn't pay it on time. So she then told them that had never heard of it, to pay it.

They said that she couldn't have not known about it if she was living in Ireland, as they ran a campaign on the radio, TV, magazines, newspapers, internet and door to door with flyers.

So she is now wondering what options are (house is not sold). Can it be disputed, would they agree to installments, can she pay the €800, could she go to court taking oath that she never heard of it, is it worth the hassle etc.

From what I remember, the campaign referenced this as 'the holiday home tax' which may have gone over the head of people who didn't have a holiday home, or didnt class their NPPR as a holiday home for whatever reason. I had some dealings with this for a friend recently who came across the same issue when trying to sell, and we applied for exemption for the years they lived there, and paid it for the rest of the years.

If the property was rented out though, surely whoever was responsible for doing the tax returns for those periods should have brought this to the attention of whoever this post is about, in a similar way to the property tax.

Coyler wrote: »

In the vast majority of cases people do their own tax return and at that point revenue wasn't over it and registering with the RTB didn't help either. You either knew about it or you didn't.

And as for property tax, I completely agree with you, revenue made sure it knew who the owner was of every property in the country to the point that tenants had to clarify with revenue that they weren't the owners of the property they were occupying. Had that lovely back and forth with them

I guess going from my experience people with rental properties tended to have a professional do the taxes as their fees were deductible anyway - but as you say things were different then in regards to who was overseeing things, and in lots of other ways as well!

I myself am in a sort of similar situation except unlike the OP I am not selling the property. It was inherited in 2008 and is an old farmhouse type but is in a generally very poor condition and no-one has lived there since my late grandmother passed away in 2005, she moved out of the house, three years prior to her death and lived with my parents.

I am thinking of now renovating this house as it is in a very scenic location, at the time I didn't pay any property tax or NPPR on the house and haven't since. However I am wondering what is the next move in regards because if I was facing a big bill like the OP in question I would demolish and rebuild.

splinter65 wrote: »

The approach Tipp coco take is that if the roof is intact and it has water supply and the electricity can be reconnected then it is habitable and liable for nppr.

If electricity is disconnected with more that 2 years it will require a new electrical cert for reconnection, therefore for any dwelling disconnected for north of the 2 years mark you could argue that significant electrical work may be required to reconnect, therefore not habitable IMHO

JimmyMW wrote: »

If electricity is disconnected with more that 2 years it will require a new electrical cert for reconnection, therefore for any dwelling disconnected for north of the 2 years mark you could argue that significant electrical work may be required to reconnect, therefore not habitable IMHO

Takes a few minutes to reconnect electricity, if I remember right the last time I saw it done, it involved ESB networks guy putting a new fuse in meter board and taking a reading. ESB want a form filled out by electrical contractor to confirm electrics are sound, took my electrician about an hour to check everything and fill form. I don’t know if that could be considered significant.

theguzman wrote: »

I myself am in a sort of similar situation except unlike the OP I am not selling the property. It was inherited in 2008 and is an old farmhouse type but is in a generally very poor condition and no-one has lived there since my late grandmother passed away in 2005, she moved out of the house, three years prior to her death and lived with my parents.

I am thinking of now renovating this house as it is in a very scenic location, at the time I didn't pay any property tax or NPPR on the house and haven't since. However I am wondering what is the next move in regards because if I was facing a big bill like the OP in question I would demolish and rebuild.

If you aren't selling it, don't worry about the NPPR. I seriously doubt the CC will come looking for it. They've no central database for this. You simply have to prove you don't owe them the charge. Thing is, if they start looking for it they have to prove you owe it and they can't do that very easily with GDPR rules now. And I've never heard of a single CC actively chasing people down for it but I'd be happily corrected on that.

Even if they do chase you down, the fine is capped at €7230. Not going higher. There is no benefit to you to pay it off sooner. The later the better.

From 2021 to 2025 the charges and fines start to expire so sit tight would be my advice. If the absolute worst happens, you can agree a payment plan with them to pay it off.

On the other hand, if you are planning to demolish, rebuild and sell I'd talk to a local solicitor. You have good grounds for an exemption but as you can see above each CC is a law onto itself in this matter. You might be lucky and have a sensible CC or you could find the opposite. Of course you could just rebuild and just used it as a short term let while you ran down the clock on the NPPR and then sell that entirely possible as well.

Property tax on the other hand, pay that. You'll find it's probably either a few hundred or you'll be exempt given the state of the property. Tax is calculated on value. And the fines are not as absurd as the NPPR's but revenue are usually happy enough once you pay the original amount. No 700% fine there, thankfully, but interest and fines can start to get applied at any moment.

handlemaster wrote: »

whos she ?

If there was no fine for not paying a charge that all were legally obliged to pay no one would pay it.

The vast majority of people on this forum would agree with that principle. However if you are arguing for 700% fines on original charges for all legally obliged payments I'd suspect you start to get a little push back.

L1011 wrote: »

This only works if you have/had no other PPR.

World of pain if you start trying to play around with what was your PPR for this, could end up with CGT bills or prosecutions for fraud if you were claiming more than one PPR invalidly.

Apologies as I might have missed something but you can pay property taxes and household charge through the Revenue website with whatever method you like. As long as you have the property number and it's PIN you can do that any time you like.

As far as messing around with PPR, 100% agree. Don't go messing with that. World of hurt.