Off Topic Chat. (MOD NOTE post# 3949 and post#5279)

Grizzly 45 · 08-03-2021 12:20am

Feisar wrote: »

The bould Joe is right there, a well armed militia would keep a government in check when the musket was the order of the day. But these days the notion is nonsensical.

Chuckles in Afghani ,Vietnamese,Iraqui,Chechen,and IRA

Feisar · 08-03-2021 12:25am

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Chuckles in Afghani ,Vietnamese,Iraqui,Chechen,and IRA

Ah not really, dunno about the rest but the Tans could have dealt with the IRA if they had the stomach to.

Rows Grower · 08-03-2021 12:39am

Feisar wrote: »

Ah not really, dunno about the rest but the Tans could have dealt with the IRA if they had the stomach to.

Leitrim could have won the senior All Ireland Hurling if they only had the stomach.

Grizzly 45 · 08-03-2021 12:41am

Feisar wrote: »

Ah not really, dunno about the rest but the Tans could have dealt with the IRA if they had the stomach to.

Thinking more of the Provos .

Feisar · 08-03-2021 12:47am

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Thinking more of the Provos .

Yea me to. Sorry I should have clarified, when I say IRA I'm usually talking about the Provisionals, not the Marxist talking shop the actual IRA became.

The British never really went to war with the Provos.

Feisar · 08-03-2021 12:59am

Rows Grower wrote: »

Leitrim could have won the senior All Ireland Hurling if they only had the stomach.

???

I don't get the relevance? How does one of the least populated counties winning at at sporting competition have anything got to do with a war machine crushing a lesser enemy?

Cass · 08-03-2021 1:09am

Feisar wrote: »

But these days the notion is nonsensical.

I'd immediately agree with you but on thinking about it, and this is pure speculation, how well would it go for the Government though?

You'd assume the Government are better armed, cos they are. However nukes would never be used (contrary to some congressmen's beliefs) so its conventional armaments. However the soldiers, while much better trained (or even just simply trained), are not immediately on the Government's side. Well i wouldn't think so.

Then the issue of the optics, especially in this day and age, of troops attacking/arresting/shooting citizens would turn those on the fence to one side or the other. Essentially you'd be looking at ACW take two. It'd go on for years and be a very different country when all is done.

Of course the other side is shooting at static targets every second Sunday does not make one an operator, plus when you lose your Netflix, lazyboy chair, and takeaways i wonder how long people's resolve would last.

Feisar · 08-03-2021 1:39am

Cass wrote: »

I'd immediately agree with you but on thinking about it, and this is pure speculation, how well would it go for the Government though?

You'd assume the Government are better armed, cos they are. However nukes would never be used (contrary to some congressmen's beliefs) so its conventional armaments. However the soldiers, while much better trained (or even just simply trained), are not immediately on the Government's side. Well i wouldn't think so.

Then the issue of the optics, especially in this day and age, of troops attacking/arresting/shooting citizens would turn those on the fence to one side or the other. Essentially you'd be looking at ACW take two. It'd go on for years and be a very different country when all is done.

Of course the other side is shooting at static targets every second Sunday does not make one an operator, plus when you lose your Netflix, lazyboy chair, and takeaways i wonder how long people's resolve would last.

Gorilla warfare depends largely on the support of the general population. Or at least a chunk of it. That’s not going to work if yer clipping the local war hero. Back in the day the local backwoodsman/minuteman/soldier weren’t that different. These days it’s night and day. Mag dumping of a Saturday does not make a soldier much less a cog in a unit.

Cass · 08-03-2021 1:46am

Feisar wrote: »

Gorilla warfare depends largely on the support of the general population. Or at least a chunk of it.

Not to mention the armed forces. Would all of them follow orders?

That’s not going to work if yer clipping the local war hero.

Works both ways too. IO the official army shooting civilians and veterans alike.

Back in the day the local backwoodsman/minuteman/soldier weren’t that different. These days it’s night and day. Mag dumping of a Saturday does not make a soldier much less a cog in a unit.

Yeah, hence my comment about people missing life's luxuries.

I see lots of comments on social media about armed resistance and possible civil war, etc. However when push comes to shove how many would actually do something? If the number were small enough, the 2% rule applies here too, it could easily be put down with little to no loss of life. The larger the number harder it would be.

tudderone · 08-03-2021 1:51am

The americans have a different attitude to many things. But one of them is self reliance, which probably stems from the settlers. Something happens to a house holder in the dead of night in Ireland, someone in your house, cower in a wardrobe and pray the intruder does not find you. In America they feel the onus is on them and not someone else to deal with the threat to them. As the Sheriff says, "We can't be everywhere".

I don't blame them either, as some of members on the American forums have said to me, we've seen whats happened and what is happening in Europe, we don't want that.

If dozy joe does make an attempt to ban everything over there, there will be serious unrest.

tudderone · 08-03-2021 1:52am

Cass wrote: »

I'd immediately agree with you but on thinking about it, and this is pure speculation, how well would it go for the Government though?

You'd assume the Government are better armed, cos they are. However nukes would never be used (contrary to some congressmen's beliefs) so its conventional armaments. However the soldiers, while much better trained (or even just simply trained), are not immediately on the Government's side. Well i wouldn't think so.

Then the issue of the optics, especially in this day and age, of troops attacking/arresting/shooting citizens would turn those on the fence to one side or the other. Essentially you'd be looking at ACW take two. It'd go on for years and be a very different country when all is done.

Of course the other side is shooting at static targets every second Sunday does not make one an operator, plus when you lose your Netflix, lazyboy chair, and takeaways i wonder how long people's resolve would last.

Here, thats a picture of me, take that down

!

Mellor · 08-03-2021 3:03am

Cass wrote: »

Then the issue of the optics, especially in this day and age, of troops attacking/arresting/shooting citizens would turn those on the fence to one side or the other. Essentially you'd be looking at ACW take two. It'd go on for years and be a very different country when all is done.

If the army were attacking and shooting random citizens, I'd guess the public would be off the fence pretty fast. But that would apply to genuine attack of innocent bystanders.

If it was a case of being forced to use force on an extremist group. That doesn't represent the average Joe, then I doubt they'd care much.
In fact, we know they don't as it's banned many time when various cults tried to declare sovereignty and armed up. There's no but they are americans - it's more those lunatics where asking for it.

But it's only when the groups represent the common Joe that it leads to civil war. Look at Ireland in 1910-1925.

BattleCorp · 08-03-2021 10:10am

Feisar wrote: »

I don't like America's attitude towards guns. Or at least the attitude that prevails predominantly. It appears a gun is a weapon first and a beautiful amalgamation of steel and wood a distant second. The bould Joe is right there, a well armed militia would keep a government in check when the musket was the order of the day. But these days the notion is nonsensical.

An armed populace might have a slim chance at keeping the Government in check but an unarmed populace has none.

Feisar · 08-03-2021 11:04am

Note to self, don't drink and post.

Cass · 08-03-2021 11:37am

tudderone wrote: »

Here, thats a picture of me, take that down !

Its actually a selfie.

Mellor wrote: »

If the army were attacking and shooting random citizens, I'd guess the public would be off the fence pretty fast. But that would apply to genuine attack of innocent bystanders.

My thoughts were along the lines of a militia group and i don't mean a hundred people in a log cabin following a long haired friend of Jesus, but hundreds of thousands or more of truly fed up people ranging from veterans to currently serving armed forces and members of the public.

Like previous conflicts abroad a lot of people didn't have strong feelings one way or the other until the pictures of the first coffins coming home were broadcast then it polarized people fairly quickly.

If it was a case of being forced to use force on an extremist group. That doesn't represent the average Joe, then I doubt they'd care much.

Yeah, as said above if its a few people, holed up in a house somewhere, then yes it'll be largely ignored. Any sort of size to it [the movement] and it would be a different story.

In fact, we know they don't as it's banned many time when various cults tried to declare sovereignty and armed up. There's no but they are americans - it's more those lunatics where asking for it.

Again not talking about a cult or fringe group. I'm talking about normal people.

[quote[But it's only when the groups represent the common Joe that it leads to civil war. Look at Ireland in 1910-1925.[/QUOTE]
At the moment, and i've no figures to support or deny this, but there is a large percentage that are thinking along these lines. Seemingly.

Feisar wrote: »

Note to self, don't drink and post.

Why not? They're fun.

Mellor · 08-03-2021 12:34pm

Cass wrote: »

Its actually a selfie.

My thoughts were along the lines of a militia group and i don't mean a hundred people in a log cabin following a long haired friend of Jesus, but hundreds of thousands or more of truly fed up people ranging from veterans to currently serving armed forces and members of the public.

We’re saying the same thing I think.
The further the crazies are from the normal Joe the less they’ll be able to identify or will want to.
Jesus Cults, long haired wilderpeople, Q-shaman in horns and Norse tattoos. I don’t think the average Joe identifies with them.

I think other extremist groups blend in to normality a lot easier though.

BattleCorp · 08-03-2021 12:43pm

Mellor wrote: »

I think other extremist groups blend in to normality a lot easier though.

The way things are going, believing you should have access to firearms (2A in the US) puts you in an extremist group nowadays.

Cass · 10-03-2021 3:47am

Welcome to the newer, cleaner, Off Topic thread. Version 2.0 if you will.

Having discussed this with the other Mods we have decided to implement some thread specific rules. These rules will run consecutively with the forum rules, not as stand alone ones. So all other forum rules apply.

As and from this post/moment we're starting anew. I've done a massive cull of the last few days and essentially wiped out all posts, my own included, because with all the crap being slung its hard to edit or leave the good bits. Its not feasible to go back weeks or months so everything up till a couple of days back will have to remain where it is, until i get a chance to properly review the thread.

So here it is.

Civility. Its the number one rule of the forum and site and for good reason. Things can and will get heated but so long as posters are playing the ball and not the man it'll be fine. Anyone who attacks the poster and NOT the content of their post will have their post removed and face infraction.
Godwin's law will have no place in this thread. Nothing, and I mean nothing, compares to the Nazi party or the atrocities carried out under their reign and any comparison to todays current events cannot compare to that. So any attempt to compare current events, bar actual Nazis goose-stepping down a road or carrying out attacks, will be deleted. If something is bad, not fair, or in your opinion an infringement of civil liberties then explain your position without the need for this comparison.
Extremist views/ "Fake news". This shouldn't need to be said but I'm saying it regardless, and it applies to all political or other beliefs. Any posts that cross the line of decency will be immediately, and in their entirety, removed. Anyone discussing a topic that makes wild, unfounded and unverifiable claims, off an egregious nature, will have it removed. This is at the Mods discretion because of the subjective nature of such a rule but when its obvious, its obvious.
Language (not cursing). We have fallen into the habit of using slang terminology for some people, places, things and regardless of personal beliefs some are no longer acceptable, and others never were. This includes, but is not limited to ethnic, racial, religious or other derogatory remarks/comments and any slang terms commonly used for them. If you wish to discuss a group, race, religion, political party or person, use their proper name. It'll also help people understand exactly who/what you are discussing.
Backseat moderation. This is a site and forum rule but I'm taking this chance to remind people of it because its been lost on some. There are now 5 Moderators on this forum. If you have a problem you use the report post function, this -> , and let a Moderator deal with it. Any on thread comments/posts telling or suggesting to people that they should not post, that this thread should not exist, or in general acting as a Moderator be will removed without warning. The poll a few weeks back settled the matter of this threads fate and we have to move on with the result.

This threads original purpose was to allow shooting forum members to discuss pretty much anything they wanted without leaving the shooting forum. It was an opportunity to talk crap, talk seriously or just shoot the breeze. With Trump, Brexit and Covid there has been 3 major and divisive topics that have dominated the thread for some time.

Two of those three are over and God wiling the third will soon follow. That means we can get back to arguing over the usual stuff. I realise with everything said over the last number of years, and the irony is not lost on me that I'm a large contributor to that, it may be hard for some to move on or put it behind them, but this "renewal" is that opportunity for us all to do just that.

I'll end on this.

The Moderators and I do not want to limit the range of topics that can be discussed on this thread, however the free for all that has been happening lately has caused us to re-evaluate the threads existence (the poll a few weeks back) and even after that wonder if the trouble it causes is still worth it. We believe it is if we can get back to basics.

So there is no limitation on topics (barring the obvious stuff that is prohibited by site rules such as illegality, etc.) only a refresher on posting etiquette.

I'll do a review on all the removed post over the coming days and some may appear again either in whole or part, depending on content. Its too much work to do right now and the thread would have to be shut down while this happens so deleting them for review was the better option.

If anyone has any comments or input myself or the other Mods are happy to listen to you but any/all communication can be done via PM so as not to clog the thread up with posts about the thread especially given the new rule #5 above.

Thanks for your patience.

Shooting Mod Team.

Cass · 10-03-2021 10:47pm

Just FYI, the thread is open for posts. It was only closed last night while the clean was being done.

Feisar · 10-03-2021 10:50pm

Further to the rebarreling thread. It’s not relevant to it so not posting there.
My dad tells me of some questionable repairs to shotguns by car mechanics/handymen back in the day.

Cass · 10-03-2021 11:27pm

Suppose gunsmithing was not a "thing" as it is today so wouldn't surprise me.

tudderone · 10-03-2021 11:41pm

Feisar wrote: »

Further to the rebarreling thread. It’s not relevant to it so not posting there.
My dad tells me of some questionable repairs to shotguns by car mechanics/handymen back in the day.

People hadn't a pot to whizz in years ago, it was make do and mend. I seen it with all sorts, cars, tractors, motorcycles, bicycles. In some ways, compared to today it was good to see. The woman next door changed her car recently, got into massive hock with the bank for a 50k tin box. She was telling me you couldn't possible drive a car over three years old, i mean what would people think :rolleyes:.

I knew a lad years ago, that would rough shoot with us, who had a single barrel, with the closing mechanism furked, it was held closed with an inner tube from a bicycle :eek:. It didn't seem to cause him trouble.

Grizzly 45 · 11-03-2021 4:08am

My 1st car a 1972 Landrover SWB,I drove it a few time to a mechanic who specialised in LR repair 15 miles from me betimes with literally ZERO foot brake,and breaking with just handbrake and gear shifting, down the Limerick /Shannon dual carriageway a good few times, and no one was the wiser minus any sort of seat belts in it too because of its age it wasn't required.
My mates 1st cars weren't any better,if not worse. One lad had a Morris Minor that his brakes were a baulk of wood with a chain contraption to the hand brake that you pulled when you wanted to stop in lieu of the brake pedal connected to the rear wheels:eek:
He drove like that for months before he got someone to fix his brakes on his 30 quid a week wages as a farmhand.:eek:
Welded together chassis, holes repaired with Isopon in the chassis, floor plates repaired with nicked road traffic signs, and wire coat hangers used as the welding flux. Stuff that would give an NCT inspector a coronary on the spot.
If you were stopped for some reason,all AGS wanted to see was tax and insurance,and you weren't falling out of the car langers,you were grand. Didn't matter about the 15 others in the back of the van you were giving a lift home to either.:)
How no one was killed in some of these Mad Max death traps,I'll never know.
Seen a few of those types of guns you mentioned.DBBLS held together with baling twine and electricians tape and in one case an ancient hammer SXS kept with both barrels on full cock held back with rubber bands while out on a days woodcock shooting.:eek::eek:
Yeah,we could get away with things unthinkable today,but remember the time too.We weren't being micromanaged for our own good from Brussels in all aspects of our lives.
Shooting was in enforced indefinite hibernation with the troubles, and the thoughts of owning anything bigger than a .22/250 or a handgun of any type would get you a look that you must have been on the quare stuff, and you were a serious gun owner if you had THREE guns at the address. But so long as they were licensed,who cared how many rounds they held or how long the barrels were?
Nor were we as litigation happy back then as we are now either.
I'll just put it down to our Irish luck that there weren't any people killed by POS firearms either exploding or firing of their own will due to being in dire mechanical condition, same as our 80s Mad Max-style engineered and repaired cars.

tudderone · 11-03-2021 12:03pm

Leo Varadkar reckons it will be into April before things can open up again with the covid virus.

https://www.dublinlive.ie/news/dublin-news/coronavirus-ireland-tanaiste-leo-varadkar-20068122

otmmyboy2 · 11-03-2021 12:20pm

tudderone wrote: »

Leo Varadkar reckons it will be into April before things can open up again with the covid virus.

More musings from the sycophant.

Mr Varadkar added outdoor sports training was one of the things that is "open for consideration" from April 5.

I suspect at best that will be within counties, so still no range days for most of us.

He said: "The CDC in the United States, which is one of the world's most respected public health bodies, is now saying people who are vaccinated can meet up without masks.

He was quick to discount their advice when it didn't suit the government narrative.

This being the same CDC who previously said that healthy people should not be wearing masks, then promptly did a 180.
Who also say children over 2 years should wear masks.

Our gov is creating an unequal society, again:
The vaccinated vs the second class citizens.

civdef · 11-03-2021 1:09pm

Our gov is creating an unequal society, again:
The vaccinated vs the second class citizens.

I love this stuff - what's your proposal here - magically vaccinate everyone at once? Or vaccinate no-one?

civdef · 11-03-2021 1:15pm

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

My 1st car a 1972 Landrover SWB,I drove it a few time to a mechanic who specialised in LR repair 15 miles from me betimes with literally ZERO foot brake,and breaking with just handbrake and gear shifting, down the Limerick /Shannon dual carriageway a good few times, and no one was the wiser minus any sort of seat belts in it too because of its age it wasn't required.

I have a 1973 one, I'd say the biggest challenge was noticing the difference between normal and no braking - those drums work slowly!

My own experience is that the big improvement in car roadworthiness has played a dominant role in our massively improved road safety stats. Looking back at it now, it's hard to credit what used to be considered normal.

otmmyboy2 · 11-03-2021 1:24pm

civdef wrote: »

I love this stuff - what's your proposal here - magically vaccinate everyone at once? Or vaccinate no-one?

Me too

Simple, don't create the unequal society.
Keep those who chose to be vaccinated and those who do not on the same footing.

The vaccinations are not mandatory, and this differing treatment of people based on a supposedly "optional" choice is just a backdoor into making it mandatory.

A la the public services card debacle that they had to row back on.

I am not anti-vaccines in general, but this one I am suspect of, because of:
The blanket immunity to liability for the companies,
The relative lack of testing,
The speed with which it was developed,
The MRNA vaccines being the first of their kind,
The government's stated media campaign to get people to accept the "optional" vaccine(as a general rule I will distrust anyone trying to get me to do anything).

I'm sure there are others but that is off the top of my head.

But I think the above is a reasonable set of reasons to opt out of a vaccine.
And I do not think that my choosing not to accept the vaccine should make me less than someone who does get it.

Also what about the various people who cannot get the vaccine out of obligation or medical reasons?
IE - religious reasons, women who may be or become pregnant in the near future(no studies done on this AFAIK), not being health enough to get the vaccine(cancer patients, those with weakened immune systems, those on immunosuppressants, etc).
I've yet to hear a plan to accommodate them in the gov's plans, just a bland percentage of those to be vaccinated to achieve herd immunity.
Also with no mention of those who have acquired natural immunity through having had the virus.

tudderone · 11-03-2021 1:30pm

The mother got the jab at 10 this morning, she seems ok, no side effects, in and out in 15mins.

tudderone · 11-03-2021 1:37pm

civdef wrote: »

I have a 1973 one, I'd say the biggest challenge was noticing the difference between normal and no braking - those drums work slowly!

My own experience is that the big improvement in car roadworthiness has played a dominant role in our massively improved road safety stats. Looking back at it now, it's hard to credit what used to be considered normal.

The roads are vastly different too, i remember roads in rural areas with no tarmac on them, it had been washed away and never replaced. Roads looking like chessboards, a couple of shovels of tar thrown into potholes that was gone after the first spill of rain.

Shooting Forum - Firearms licencing information

Off Topic Chat. (MOD NOTE post# 3949 and post#5279)

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Forum Charter - Useful Information - Photo thread: Hardware - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads - Upcoming Events - RFDs by County

Forum Charter - Useful Information - Photo thread: Hardware - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads - Upcoming Events - RFDs by County

Forum Charter - Useful Information - Photo thread: Hardware - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads - Upcoming Events - RFDs by County

Forum Charter - Useful Information - Photo thread: Hardware - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads - Upcoming Events - RFDs by County