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Did Stephen Donnelly give up on the Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform Committee?

15.02.2016 18:15 #1
Stephen Donnelly stopped going to Finance Committee meetings according to the SBP € http://www.businesspos...-committee-meetings/ after doing his best to get answers for 4 years I'm sure but isn't it part of your job no matter how frustrating, why not go to the committee meeting when members of SIPO attended to discuss Public Sector Standards Bill (which probably wasn't going to be completed at that late stage), but you missed a chance to discuss the issues, some weeks before you launched your own related Anti-Corruption document? http://oireachtasdebat...1100002?opendocument I already emailed him to ask him why he wasn't at those 2 committee meeting (s) and got no reply ( btw SD candidate will still probably get in top two votes). 
1 thank
16.02.2016 20:41 #2
That's a great question, and one Stephen answered recently on Ireland AM, which you can watch here - https://www.tv3.ie/3pl.../104856/0/Ireland-AM

Essentially, party leaders don't sit on committees as it's very difficult to have the time to do both well, and he became a party leader last year. His attendance in the first 4 years was great - and he made great contributions and tabled a lot of legislative amendments, but of the hundreds of amendments tabled by opposition TDs a whopping zero were accepted by the government. 

It's a shame that our committees are much less useful than in other major democracies, and actually something we propose changing in our Manifesto, taking a lot of power away from the cabinet and transferring it to the committees and putting them at the heart of our legislative process:

https://socialdemocrats.ie/2016/02/16/towards-an-open-transparent-government/
6 thanks
16.02.2016 21:06 #3
Originally posted by Social Democrats: Peter
That's a great question, and one Stephen answered recently on Ireland AM, which you can watch here - https://www.tv3.ie/3pl.../104856/0/Ireland-AM

Essentially, party leaders don't sit on committees as it's very difficult to have the time to do both well, and he became a party leader last year. His attendance in the first 4 years was great - and he made great contributions and tabled a lot of legislative amendments, but of the hundreds of amendments tabled by opposition TDs a whopping zero were accepted by the government.

It's a shame that our committees are much less useful than in other major democracies, and actually something we propose changing in our Manifesto, taking a lot of power away from the cabinet and transferring it to the committees and putting them at the heart of our legislative process:

https://socialdemocrat...nsparent-government/

I don't care if he is party leader, you've got 3 party co-leaders, did they all drop out of their committees for the last year?

and you can specifically answers my questions as to why he didn't go to the committee meeting with SIPO (and the Ombudsman) weeks before launching a policy document that involved rearranging what the commission would do.

Going to committees is part of the job of a TD, you never let them say you didn't turn up. You turn up and challenge till the very last day, he knew what committees and the Dail was like going in, didn't he?

what happens if Stephen Donnelly doesn't get into government? or the Socdems don't get enough TDs to operate on their own outside the Technical group, will he go on committees? or will he look at and another 5 years as an opposition TD and just quit?
2 thanks
17.02.2016 15:10 #4
Registered User
Originally posted by expectationlost
Originally posted by Social Democrats: Peter
That's a great question, and one Stephen answered recently on Ireland AM, which you can watch here - https://www.tv3.ie/3player/show/809/104856/0/Ireland-AM

Essentially, party leaders don't sit on committees as it's very difficult to have the time to do both well, and he became a party leader last year. His attendance in the first 4 years was great - and he made great contributions and tabled a lot of legislative amendments, but of the hundreds of amendments tabled by opposition TDs a whopping zero were accepted by the government.

It's a shame that our committees are much less useful than in other major democracies, and actually something we propose changing in our Manifesto, taking a lot of power away from the cabinet and transferring it to the committees and putting them at the heart of our legislative process:

https://socialdemocrats.ie/2016/02/16/towards-an-open-transparent-government/

I don't care if he is party leader, you've got 3 party co-leaders, did they all drop out of their committees for the last year?

and you can specifically answers my questions as  to why he didn't go to the committee meeting with SIPO (and the Ombudsman) weeks before launching a policy document that involved rearranging what the commission would do.

Going to committees is part of the job of a TD, you never let them say  you didn't turn up. You turn up and challenge till the very last day, he  knew what committee and the Dail was like going in didn't he?

what happens if Stephen Donnelly doesn't get into government? or the Socdems don't get enough TDs to operate on their own outside the Technical group, will he go on committees? or will he look at and another 5 years as an opposition TD and just quit?

Lol someone didnt get the answer they wanted..  
2 thanks
18.02.2016 14:22 #5
look here's Catherine Muprhy still going to committees https://www.kildarestr...mmittees&pid=204
18.02.2016 16:26 #6
Registered User
Originally posted by expectationlost
Originally posted by Social Democrats: Peter
That's a great question, and one Stephen answered recently on Ireland AM, which you can watch here - https://www.tv3.ie/3player/show/809/104856/0/Ireland-AM

Essentially, party leaders don't sit on committees as it's very difficult to have the time to do both well, and he became a party leader last year. His attendance in the first 4 years was great - and he made great contributions and tabled a lot of legislative amendments, but of the hundreds of amendments tabled by opposition TDs a whopping zero were accepted by the government.

It's a shame that our committees are much less useful than in other major democracies, and actually something we propose changing in our Manifesto, taking a lot of power away from the cabinet and transferring it to the committees and putting them at the heart of our legislative process:

https://socialdemocrats.ie/2016/02/16/towards-an-open-transparent-government/

I don't care if he is party leader, you've got 3 party co-leaders, did they all drop out of their committees for the last year?

and you can specifically answers my questions as  to why he didn't go to the committee meeting with SIPO (and the Ombudsman) weeks before launching a policy document that involved rearranging what the commission would do.

Going to committees is part of the job of a TD, you never let them say  you didn't turn up. You turn up and challenge till the very last day, he  knew what committees and the Dail was like going in, didn't he?

what happens if Stephen Donnelly doesn't get into government? or the Socdems don't get enough TDs to operate on their own outside the Technical group, will he go on committees? or will he look at and another 5 years as an opposition TD and just quit?

He answered that question in fairness

"he made great contributions and tabled a lot of legislative amendments, but of the hundreds of amendments tabled by opposition TDs a whopping zero were accepted by the government."

In other words, even if he attended every meeting last year, it's pretty pointless as it currently stands, it's essentially a talk shop for media soundbites. In that context I completely understand if he chose to spend the majority of the last year there setting up a party to fight for such changes, to give committees real teeth and purpose, rather than going to those meetings and tabling amendments that's just gonna hit a brick wall every time. 
2 thanks
18.02.2016 16:42 #7
So then he should have the decency to resign from the committee, and let somebody else take the place. Do TDs get a fee for sitting on a committee like this? 


Originally posted by Komsomolitz


He answered that question in fairness

"he made great contributions and tabled a lot of legislative amendments, but of the hundreds of amendments tabled by opposition TDs a whopping zero were accepted by the government."

In other words, even if he attended every meeting last year, it's pretty pointless as it currently stands, it's essentially a talk shop for media soundbites. In that context I completely understand if he chose to spend the majority of the last year there setting up a party to fight for such changes, to give committees real teeth and purpose, rather than going to those meetings and tabling amendments that's just gonna hit a brick wall every time. 
18.02.2016 17:30 #8
Registered User
Originally posted by RainyDay
So then he should have the decency to resign from the committee, and let somebody else take the place. Do TDs get a fee for sitting on a committee like this? 


Originally posted by Komsomolitz


He answered that question in fairness

"he made great contributions and tabled a lot of legislative amendments, but of the hundreds of amendments tabled by opposition TDs a whopping zero were accepted by the government."

In other words, even if he attended every meeting last year, it's pretty pointless as it currently stands, it's essentially a talk shop for media soundbites. In that context I completely understand if he chose to spend the majority of the last year there setting up a party to fight for such changes, to give committees real teeth and purpose, rather than going to those meetings and tabling amendments that's just gonna hit a brick wall every time. 


I believe you get a fee on top of your salary if you are chairperson of a committee, but not if you are just a member of it.

Source
2 thanks
18.02.2016 17:40 #9
Originally posted by RainyDay
So then he should have the decency to resign from the committee, and let somebody else take the place. Do TDs get a fee for sitting on a committee like this?


Originally posted by Komsomolitz


He answered that question in fairness

"he made great contributions and tabled a lot of legislative amendments, but of the hundreds of amendments tabled by opposition TDs a whopping zero were accepted by the government."

In other words, even if he attended every meeting last year, it's pretty pointless as it currently stands, it's essentially a talk shop for media soundbites. In that context I completely understand if he chose to spend the majority of the last year there setting up a party to fight for such changes, to give committees real teeth and purpose, rather than going to those meetings and tabling amendments that's just gonna hit a brick wall every time.


yes he should left the committee and offered the place to somebody else from the Technical Group he's still listed as a member http://www.oireachtas....r-committee/members/

TDs don't get extra fees for sitting on committees on Chairs of Committee do http://www.oireachtas....allowances/salaries/
18.02.2016 17:47 #10
Originally posted by Komsomolitz
Originally posted by expectationlost
Originally posted by Social Democrats: Peter
That's a great question, and one Stephen answered recently on Ireland AM, which you can watch here - https://www.tv3.ie/3pl.../104856/0/Ireland-AM

Essentially, party leaders don't sit on committees as it's very difficult to have the time to do both well, and he became a party leader last year. His attendance in the first 4 years was great - and he made great contributions and tabled a lot of legislative amendments, but of the hundreds of amendments tabled by opposition TDs a whopping zero were accepted by the government.

It's a shame that our committees are much less useful than in other major democracies, and actually something we propose changing in our Manifesto, taking a lot of power away from the cabinet and transferring it to the committees and putting them at the heart of our legislative process:

https://socialdemocrat...nsparent-government/

I don't care if he is party leader, you've got 3 party co-leaders, did they all drop out of their committees for the last year?

and you can specifically answers my questions as to why he didn't go to the committee meeting with SIPO (and the Ombudsman) weeks before launching a policy document that involved rearranging what the commission would do.

Going to committees is part of the job of a TD, you never let them say you didn't turn up. You turn up and challenge till the very last day, he knew what committees and the Dail was like going in, didn't he?

what happens if Stephen Donnelly doesn't get into government? or the Socdems don't get enough TDs to operate on their own outside the Technical group, will he go on committees? or will he look at and another 5 years as an opposition TD and just quit?

He answered that question in fairness

"he made great contributions and tabled a lot of legislative amendments, but of the hundreds of amendments tabled by opposition TDs a whopping zero were accepted by the government."

In other words, even if he attended every meeting last year, it's pretty pointless as it currently stands, it's essentially a talk shop for media soundbites. In that context I completely understand if he chose to spend the majority of the last year there setting up a party to fight for such changes, to give committees real teeth and purpose, rather than going to those meetings and tabling amendments that's just gonna hit a brick wall every time.

the primary job of TD is to go to the Dail and Committees, and represent the people in his contituency and entire nation publically in the Oireachtas, I understand it can be fruitless but thats the job, thats what he's paid to do, he knew that, he probably doesn't get enough credit for the 4 years he did it, but now were talking about the the 5th year because he chose stop to going to the Finance & PER committees, he didn't answer the questions the SD rep spun, Catherine Murphy kept going to committees so its not because he appointed himself (co) leader of party.

and still haven't heard why they didn't speak to SIPO reps publically in the Oireachtas when they had a chance before launching their Anti-Corruption policy
18.02.2016 20:57 #11
Originally posted by Social Democrats: Peter
That's a great question, and one Stephen answered recently on Ireland AM, which you can watch here 

Essentially, party leaders don't sit on committees as it's very difficult to have the time to do both well, and he became a party leader last year. His attendance in the first 4 years was great - and he made great contributions and tabled a lot of legislative amendments, but of the hundreds of amendments tabled by opposition TDs a whopping zero were accepted by the government. 

It's a shame that our committees are much less useful than in other major democracies, and actually something we propose changing in our Manifesto, taking a lot of power away from the cabinet and transferring it to the committees and putting them at the heart of our legislative process:


With all respect, blaming the government for every negative thing that happens is the kind of petty politics I would have hoped the Social Democrats were above.

As the poster above said, if Stephen felt that he was unable to do the job that the people of Wicklow (myself included) put him there to do, he should have resigned and given the opportunity to someone else. He was elected to represent the views of the people - even if they are not being listened to - not to be leader of a party. Other opposition people seem to have managed to continue attending despite their amendments not being accepted.
01.03.2016 22:36 #12
and here we go SocsDEms coming out with stuff about Dail Reform and Anti-Corruption, I still don't why Stephen Donnelly didn't talk to SIPO reps at the comittee meeting  http://us11.campaign-a...43d&e=a015d3ae58
12.03.2016 16:23 #13
Registered User
How many opposition amendments to legislation were accepted by the government controlled Finance committee?

Also, if you were a lone independent TD with ambitions of genuine political reform and you were faced with the options of maintaining a high attendance rate in an impotent echo chamber Dáil & committees where opposition TDs are ignored OR using some of that precious time to try to set up a new party (with very few successful new entrants in the last 100 years), what would you do?

I back Stephen's decision to prioritise a project with potential national impact over the other options in his 5th Dáil year.  For what it's worth, I would wager his poll topping performance in Wicklow shows widespread support for his approach and representation and frankly I find it a bit disappointing that someone so politically active as yourself would harp on in this manner without acknowledging the context.
12.03.2016 17:23 #14
Originally posted by edanto
How many opposition amendments to legislation were accepted by the government controlled Finance committee?

Also, if you were a lone independent TD with ambitions of genuine political reform and you were faced with the options of maintaining a high attendance rate in an impotent echo chamber Dáil & committees where opposition TDs are ignored OR using some of that precious time to try to set up a new party (with very few successful new entrants in the last 100 years), what would you do?
.

If he is going to make a decision like this, he should simply resign from the committee and leave the place open for someone else who is available to attend.
1 thank
13.03.2016 12:39 #15
Originally posted by edanto
How many opposition amendments to legislation were accepted by the government controlled Finance committee?

Also, if you were a lone independent TD with ambitions of genuine political reform and you were faced with the options of maintaining a high attendance rate in an impotent echo chamber Dáil & committees where opposition TDs are ignored OR using some of that precious time to try to set up a new party (with very few successful new entrants in the last 100 years), what would you do?

I back Stephen's decision to prioritise a project with potential national impact over the other options in his 5th Dáil year. For what it's worth, I would wager his poll topping performance in Wicklow shows widespread support for his approach and representation and frankly I find it a bit disappointing that someone so politically active as yourself would harp on in this manner without acknowledging the context.

How many opposition amendments to legislation will be accepted by the government controlled Finance committee post the creation of the Social Democrats and this election?


How has the creation of the Social Democrats changed that problem?

ETA: again its his job to attend committees, he's paid to do it, call it frustration money if you want

I had specific question about attendance at the SIPO discussion, it seems to me they abandoned use of the Dail entirely in relation to coming up with anti-corruption policy again if he doesn't want to be involved in the national parliament he should quit. This is the question I emailed Stephen Donnelly about and still not been answered.
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