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About to leave UPC due to (lack of) port forwarding

03.09.2014 12:04 #1
Registered User
Hi,

I ordered my UPC broadband last week and it turns out UPC does not support port forwarding.  I'm about to cancel my account within the 14 day window (my vodafone efibre is still active, thank goodness I didn't cancel it!)

For those of you wondering why port forwarding doesn't work with UPC, my understanding is the problem is due to a shortage of IPv4 addresses. UPC is sharing IPv4 address among customers using a technology call double stack lite, or ds lite.

DS-Lite is similar to carrier grade nat but gives you your own a public IPv6 address, so in theory port forwarding could work for IPv6 clients but will never work for IPv4 clients, which is 99% of the internet.

I'm not prepared to spend €92.25 a month for business service.

So does the UPC team want save my account by turning off ds-lite on my modem and giving me a normal dynamic IPv4 address (I don't need static) or will I go back to vodafone?

Thanks
03.09.2014 14:13 #2
Verified representative
Originally posted by maclek
Hi,

I ordered my UPC broadband last week and it turns out UPC does not support port forwarding.  I'm about to cancel my account within the 14 day window (my vodafone efibre is still active, thank goodness I didn't cancel it!)

For those of you wondering why port forwarding doesn't work with UPC, my understanding is the problem is due to a shortage of IPv4 addresses. UPC is sharing IPv4 address among customers using a technology call double stack lite, or ds lite.

DS-Lite is similar to carrier grade nat but gives you your own a public IPv6 address, so in theory port forwarding could work for IPv6 clients but will never work for IPv4 clients, which is 99% of the internet.

I'm not prepared to spend €92.25 a month for business service.

So does the UPC team want save my account by turning off ds-lite on my modem and giving me a normal dynamic IPv4 address (I don't need static) or will I go back to vodafone?

Thanks

Hi macleck, 

Port forwarding is not a supported feature. 
We do not use DS lite on our IP addresses.
Apologies you're not happy with this, if you wish to terminate your service you can find information on this here.


Thanks. 
03.09.2014 14:40 #3
Port forwarding works Just fine, Why do you think it doesn't work?

UPC dont offer support on using port forwarding, but that doesn't mean the feature doesn't work.  I run an FTP server and my webcams no problem.
4 thanks
03.09.2014 18:04 #4
Registered User
I don't think it works because I can't connect outside my house, using the external ip address.  A port scan doesn't show anything open.  Turning off the firewall doesn't help.

It think the router is in ds-lite mode for 2 reasons.  When I'm on the internet page it only shows my IPv6 address (not a strong indication but a hint), and when I try and put in a port range on the port forwarding page it says it can't do a port range when the router is in ds-lite mode.

I've attached screenshots.  I've tried a factory reset, changing the firewall.  I'm at a loss.

I really appreciate the replies, thank you.

Attached Images

03.09.2014 19:39 #5
In upc port forwarding.PNG you have

3389-3389 192.168.0.101 3389-3389 TCP

On My configuration, if I were to be using 3389 I would Just have

3389 182.168.0.101 3389 TCP

Also check that windows firewall is allowing remote desktop connections (I generally disable it until I get things working)and remote desktop is actually enabled on the machine with the IP of 192.168.0.101
1 thank
03.09.2014 20:13 #6
Registered User
I've confirmed that I can remote desktop to it from another computer on the lan, although interestingly enough another computer on the lan set itself back to public network so I couldn't remote into it until I set the connection type back to home.  This all worked fine with the vodafone router.

The router puts those ranges in even if you just type one port value.

Maybe the router (Technicolor TC7200) is just a POS.  Maybe I've done something wrong. Maybe something upstream is blocking. Who knows.

I might install wireshark later and see if there are any packets getting through the router, I doubt it though.
03.09.2014 20:28 #7
Perhaps the TC7200 doesnt support WAN port reflection? ( I don't know as I don't have this model)

This is when you cant access the WAN Ip address of the router for your Internal LAN so its basically impossible to test if the port forwarding is working from your own network. You have to go onto a diffeent network and connect to your home networks WAN address to test the connection (You can use a RDP apple/android client over 3/4g) This drove me mental trying to get my webcams working on the Horizon box but once I figured that it was no bother.
03.09.2014 23:01 #8
Registered User
Originally posted by UPC: Brian
Originally posted by maclek
Hi,

I ordered my UPC broadband last week and it turns out UPC does not support port forwarding.  I'm about to cancel my account within the 14 day window (my vodafone efibre is still active, thank goodness I didn't cancel it!)

For those of you wondering why port forwarding doesn't work with UPC, my understanding is the problem is due to a shortage of IPv4 addresses. UPC is sharing IPv4 address among customers using a technology call double stack lite, or ds lite.

DS-Lite is similar to carrier grade nat but gives you your own a public IPv6 address, so in theory port forwarding could work for IPv6 clients but will never work for IPv4 clients, which is 99% of the internet.

I'm not prepared to spend €92.25 a month for business service.

So does the UPC team want save my account by turning off ds-lite on my modem and giving me a normal dynamic IPv4 address (I don't need static) or will I go back to vodafone?

Thanks

Hi macleck, 

Port forwarding is not a supported feature. 
We do not use DS lite on our IP addresses.
Apologies you're not happy with this, if you wish to terminate your service you can find information on this here.


Thanks. 

Why is Wabbit Ears now doing the job that you're paid to do?
04.09.2014 02:01 #9
This looks like a big deal, and UPC have a lot of questions to answer here

1) @UPC Brian says that DS-Lite is not used, but the TC router says it is in DS-lite mode - so which is it? Other Liberty Global companies have introduced DS-Lite as a result of IPV4 address depletion.

2) If DS-lite is used, is port forwarding supported now, and if not will it ever be supported? As I understand it port forwarding requires the TC/residential gateway and Carrier Grade NAT (CGN) box to implement a protocol (e.g. PCP) to make it happen. It looks as if the TC thinks that port forwarding for a single port should work - is the problem that the CGN does not support it?

3) What is the UPC policy for deciding whether a given user gets a public IPV4 address or uses DS-Lite? Are all new customers assigned to DS-Lite? If so this would be a strong incentive not to switch to UPC if you need to run any form of server (web/ftp, remote terminal, VPN) or want to use peer-to-peer apps (torrents, gaming) in your home network, if port forwarding is not supported.

4) What is the UPC policy if someone (e.g. like @maclek) who has been assigned a DS-Lite configuration requests a public IPV4 address. Is it really to send them a link on how to cancel your UPC service? 

5) The purpose of DS-Lite is to allow multiple users share the same public IPV4 address. If a remote site (e.g. a bank or a blog) blacklists an IPV4 address for some reason, what will prevent an innocent user also being blacklisted by virtue of sharing the same IPV4 address?
3 thanks
04.09.2014 13:06 #10
Verified representative
Originally posted by tokenring
This looks like a big deal, and UPC have a lot of questions to answer here

1) @UPC Brian says that DS-Lite is not used, but the TC router says it is in DS-lite mode - so which is it? Other Liberty Global companies have introduced DS-Lite as a result of IPV4 address depletion.

2) If DS-lite is used, is port forwarding supported now, and if not will it ever be supported? As I understand it port forwarding requires the TC/residential gateway and Carrier Grade NAT (CGN) box to implement a protocol (e.g. PCP) to make it happen. It looks as if the TC thinks that port forwarding for a single port should work - is the problem that the CGN does not support it?

3) What is the UPC policy for deciding whether a given user gets a public IPV4 address or uses DS-Lite? Are all new customers assigned to DS-Lite? If so this would be a strong incentive not to switch to UPC if you need to run any form of server (web/ftp, remote terminal, VPN) or want to use peer-to-peer apps (torrents, gaming) in your home network, if port forwarding is not supported.

4) What is the UPC policy if someone (e.g. like @maclek) who has been assigned a DS-Lite configuration requests a public IPV4 address. Is it really to send them a link on how to cancel your UPC service? 

5) The purpose of DS-Lite is to allow multiple users share the same public IPV4 address. If a remote site (e.g. a bank or a blog) blacklists an IPV4 address for some reason, what will prevent an innocent user also being blacklisted by virtue of sharing the same IPV4 address?

Hi tokenring, 

As we've already mentioned, DS lite is not used. 


the TC router says it is in DS-lite mode


If you'd like to send your acc details and screen shots of this to UPC: Reps we can investigate this for you. 




Thanks. 
04.09.2014 13:33 #11
Originally posted by UPC: Brian
Originally posted by tokenring
This looks like a big deal, and UPC have a lot of questions to answer here

1) @UPC Brian says that DS-Lite is not used, but the TC router says it is in DS-lite mode - so which is it? Other Liberty Global companies have introduced DS-Lite as a result of IPV4 address depletion.

2) If DS-lite is used, is port forwarding supported now, and if not will it ever be supported? As I understand it port forwarding requires the TC/residential gateway and Carrier Grade NAT (CGN) box to implement a protocol (e.g. PCP) to make it happen. It looks as if the TC thinks that port forwarding for a single port should work - is the problem that the CGN does not support it?

3) What is the UPC policy for deciding whether a given user gets a public IPV4 address or uses DS-Lite? Are all new customers assigned to DS-Lite? If so this would be a strong incentive not to switch to UPC if you need to run any form of server (web/ftp, remote terminal, VPN) or want to use peer-to-peer apps (torrents, gaming) in your home network, if port forwarding is not supported.

4) What is the UPC policy if someone (e.g. like @maclek) who has been assigned a DS-Lite configuration requests a public IPV4 address. Is it really to send them a link on how to cancel your UPC service? 

5) The purpose of DS-Lite is to allow multiple users share the same public IPV4 address. If a remote site (e.g. a bank or a blog) blacklists an IPV4 address for some reason, what will prevent an innocent user also being blacklisted by virtue of sharing the same IPV4 address?

Hi tokenring, 

As we've already mentioned, DS lite is not used. 


the TC router says it is in DS-lite mode


If you'd like to send your acc details and screen shots of this to UPC: Reps we can investigate this for you. 




Thanks. 

@UPC Brian

The relevant screenshots have already been posted by the original poster in this thread (post #4). The 2nd one indicates that the TC router is in DS-Lite mode.

My account details are not relevant to the topic at hand, since I have a public IPV4 address (as of now). From the screenshots the OP appears to have no public IPV4 address, only IPV6 addresses. If DS-Lite is not being used, then what mechanism is being used to provide connectivity between the IPV4 home network and the IPV4 internet?
2 thanks
04.09.2014 16:11 #12
Verified representative
Hi tokenring, 

We've sent the details of the thread to our engineers and we'll update you ASAP. 


Thanks.
05.09.2014 10:24 #13
Registered User
Originally posted by UPC: Brian
Hi tokenring, 

We've sent the details of the thread to our engineers and we'll update you ASAP. 


Thanks.

Hi Brian

Thanks for chasing this up.

I've cancelled my UPC over the phone, but if you guys want to send me one of the cisco routers (my understanding is port forwarding works well with those routers) or indeed find any other relevant information I'm more than happy to uncancel.  I was quite happy with the broadband otherwise.

Thanks again.
05.09.2014 10:26 #14
Registered User
Originally posted by Wabbit Ears
Perhaps the TC7200 doesnt support WAN port reflection? ( I don't know as I don't have this model)

This is when you cant access the WAN Ip address of the router for your Internal LAN so its basically impossible to test if the port forwarding is working from your own network. You have to go onto a diffeent network and connect to your home networks WAN address to test the connection (You can use a RDP apple/android client over 3/4g) This drove me mental trying to get my webcams working on the Horizon box but once I figured that it was no bother.

Regarding the wan reflection, I assumed it doesn't support that.  :)  I was using tethering on my mobile as well as remoting to another computer on eircom broadband to test it.
05.09.2014 13:11 #15
Verified representative
Originally posted by maclek
Hi Brian

Thanks for chasing this up.

I've cancelled my UPC over the phone, but if you guys want to send me one of the cisco routers (my understanding is port forwarding works well with those routers) or indeed find any other relevant information I'm more than happy to uncancel.  I was quite happy with the broadband otherwise.

Thanks again.

Hi maclek, 

Sorry to hear you've cancelled. The issue is still relevant for other users and yourself included so we'll update the thread here ASAP.

Thanks. 
1 thank
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