Gender neutral kids clothing

ceadaoin. wrote: »

Sorry but I can't see that happening. By its very definition that kind of surgery is only cosmetic. It will be a very long time, if ever, before a fully working reproductive system of the opposite sex can be created/transplanted.

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2015/11/24/trans-women-could-get-pregnant-within-next-ten-years_n_8627006.html
Hmm maybe not as long as you think. And so what if they can't reproduce, do you think infertile people born as women are less real women just because of this?

Bob24 wrote: »

Of course not and I don't think anyone said that. But the OP also has every right to question whether in their opinion this particular example is indeed gender neutral.

We haven't seen the whole product line, but for what is meant to be gender neutral, it is strange for the promotion material not to show a single girl.
And garments which are all pink or with "love" written all over (only cues which society would see as girly). It is not stupid to ask "why not a girl wearing a blue t-shirt saying "police"? And to wonder if even that would really be neutral or just playing with the social norm.

How would you know they're boys? I thought there was 1 boy and 2 girls being shown?

The second question I think you could almost answer yourself - nobody would assume that a girl in a sports jersey or a t-shirt with "Football" written on it was wearing anything unusual at all.
Society is perfectly happy to accept girls wearing almost any clothes they like, but we judge boys if they don't conform. I'm not entirely sure why, but the tone suggests that girls' clothes on boys is somehow demeaning for the boys... as a girl, I find that notion a little insulting if I'm honest.

Lyaiera wrote: »

No. That's either a bald faced lie or your ignorant of the situation.

You seem quite fond of telling anyone who doesn't share your opinon that they are ignorant of the situation. A more accurate assessment is that they may be ignorant of your situation, your particular circumstances, just as you are completely ignorant of their situation, of their particular circumstances. You appear to be so taken up with yourself though that it's understandable you couldn't possibly see anything from anyone else's point of view. Better just to dismiss them as ignorant because they don't agree with your opinion. Luckily for anyone else though, your opinions are only representative of your own experiences and your own gut feelings, and because I for one treat people as individuals, you don't get a free pass to dismiss me as ignorant of the situation just because I don't agree with your opinion.

Lyaiera wrote: »

None of that is going to happen. And you know what else isn't going to happen, not for a few years yet anyway. None of you ignorant ****ers are going to mind your own ****ing business. Some of you are going to say get me help, the doctors are wrong, the psychologists are wrong, it's all politics, because you have a feeling in your ignorant gut about what's wrong and what's right.

I am minding my own business when I want to inform myself about an issue, because society is everyone's business, whether you actually like that or not, and everyone within that society is everyone's business, and because society doesn't revolve around you and you only, people are perfectly within their rights to disagree with you, and to question the medical and scientific community on the approaches they are taking and they are entitled to question the efficacy of one treatment over another, and question just how much research has been done, and question, question, and keep questioning!

Because y'know why? It's when we stop questioning, that everyone in society is in trouble. You might dismiss me as an ignorant fcuker for asking questions, and for wanting to understand something, but guess what? The more you try and dismiss people, the more they're going to ask questions, and they're not going to let up, and that's not going to go away any time soon, let alone even in the next few years. It's how humanity has evolved to the point it has - by asking questions, and by looking for better answers!

Lyaiera wrote: »

I have a feeling too. But my feelings don't matter. You can dismiss because I don't fit into your pretty little world where you hate. Boys wearing girls clothing! That's the end of the world. That's not normal. They're weird. They'll be bullied. I'll teach my child to bully them and when they don't bully that poor innocent I'll bully them because I have a gigantic ****ing stick up my ass, and it's irritating my prostate and it feels kinda good but it's not ****ing normal.

I'll take your feelings into account alright, once I'm done removing the gigantic stick up my ass. It's irritating my prostate and it feels good, but I'm told it's not normal.

Lyaiera wrote: »

Who cares if someone is trans. Honestly, who gives a flying ****? You want me to use the mens bathroom? I'll use the mens bathroom, but when someone grabs like they've grabbed me in the bars I've been in what am I supposed to do? Can I stab them? Can I shoot them? Or according to the great god Pan should I just let them cop a feel because they're only being friendly?

I care, and I give a flying fcuk if someone is trans. I personally don't particularly care what bathroom you use. I also care if you've been assaulted, and that's the thing - you think society shouldn't care when it suits you personally, and then you think society should care, when it suits you personally. Well because you're a part of society, like anyone else in society - nobody gets to have everything their own way. Not even the people who feel entitled to assault you.

Lyaiera wrote: »

People are absolutely ****ed up. And I say that as the staunchest believer in humanity. Women wanting to be men, stupid women. Men wanting to be women, perverts.

Why do you even care? Because you have to have an opinion on everything you hear on your ****ty radio station, and your forum, and if only the world listened to me. I don't care. What you say hurts me. When you touch me up it scares me. When you call me mentally disturbed I worry that you're going to take a knife to me. But ultimately, you're a piece of ****ing ****

I'd love to hear your opinion if you weren't the staunchest believer in humanity!

Lyaiera wrote: »

You are ignorant. I know plenty of ignorant trans people. I know a few nice ignorant trans people. I know you're going to ****ing hate them. I don't like them because they're getting on with their lives with little insight into what the real world, and real opinion of them is. I don't like them because they draw attention just by being normal ****ing human beings living their life. And that's too much for me, because normal people have needs and wants, and loves and losts, and I just want to escape from all you ****ers who want to call me names for something that is entirely inconsequential. Living life is too much for me because you hateful, scaremongering, beyond adolescents don't want divergence.

Again with the "everyone else is ignorant but me" stuff, and btw you still know absolutely nothing about me so you don't know I hate anyone, for any reason. It just so happens that I don't; not even people who are so ignorant that they cannot even see past the end of their own noses and thinks the world should revolve around them. Just because people who are transgender don't make it their defining quality over-riding anything else they have going for themselves, is no reason to assume they live in any less a real world than you do. I don't assume off the bat that people are ignorant, and my friends who are transgender are very much aware of how they are perceived by society at large. They don't tend to make it the focus of their lives though.

You claim that I don't want divergence, yet when we have a divergence of opinion, you claim I am an ignorant something something with a stick up my ass! In fairness to you though, it's not the first time I heard that. I've had to listen to similar sentiments from many people who I have disagreed with. Whether I take their opinion seriously or not, will depend upon how much I valued their opinion in the first place, and random punters in AH vs. the people who I meet and interact with on a daily basis? The people whom I know if I ever get sick of pretending I fit in, I know they will be there for my child? I think I'll put infinitely more value in those people's opinions than yours tbh, though I'm sure that's all the same to you.

Two Tone wrote: »

I totally agree with you - any time this "gender neutral" stuff comes up in relation to children's clothes, "gender neutral" seems to mean "boys' clothes being feminine". Some folks have said this means people are being forced to dress their children in such clothes though.

To be fair, any clothes stripped of obvious masculine cues will look feminine to anyone who has fears about the "dilution" of masculinity.

That concept hinges on the idea that there's X number of distinct things that make a man and if you add anything from column Y (or remove anything from column X) you are diluting X.

If anything is an attack on the concept of gender, it's the idea that you can reduce it to something so simple.

Jack Killian wrote: »

It is. Just as the masculisation of women would be, or the "adultisatiion" of kids.

You don't get a cat with a view to turning it into a dog.

The "masculisation" of women would be a bad thing? Women wearing trousers and fixing their own cars is ridiculed by society the same way as men wearing skirts and knitting? Really?

Jack Killian wrote: »

Was the use of X & Y a deliberate choice ?

No, but I spotted it before posting and left it in- if I wanted to be particular, it would need to be the other way around. Y things male, X things female. Or super particular: XY, XX.

Perhaps the presence of X chromosomes in your cell nuclei is a dilution of our masculinity too.