RTE Announce FTA Saorsat service

FRIENDO · 19-04-2016 9:49pm

Our radio channels are available on the Freesat epg.

zg3409 · 20-04-2016 11:58am

FRIENDO wrote: »

@fryup
No, however some reports on boards from West Wales and West England (Devon).
In Ireland you need an 80cm dish and possibly a 100cm dish or bigger in West Cork.

No matter what size dish you have in London, Manchester or Leeds you won't get Saorsat

Here is one of the coverage maps I made:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1TCdFtGMVWqGooUjlpiqSGdXdkNs&usp=sharing

Green is confirmed OK signal while red is confirmed no signal. The other spots interfere with the signal meaning a larger dish will not help.

FRIENDO · 20-04-2016 3:24pm

mackersdublin wrote:

I was under the impression there was no LCN on Saorsat

It appears that there is some order to the channel positions when first scanned.
However I have edited the epg, starting the radio channels at No. 7 after the tv stations on the Walker box.

FRIENDO · 20-04-2016 3:29pm

Thanks zg3409,

With confirmation of Saorsat as far as Devon and Swansea even with a fairly large dish, is possibly why RTE2 champions league is blocked on Saorsat.

Sickening really as you could possibly pick up Saorview in Devon and parts of Wales also, just like I can pick up an excellent Freeview signal in North Wexford and can watch BT Showcase champions league and Europa league on Freeview.

Elmo · 20-04-2016 4:08pm

I'd say its down to NI coverage. BT hold the rights for NI. Do you know if it is blocked on Freeview in NI also?

Elmo · 20-04-2016 5:17pm

ITV and the ITV Network would be the first stop for FTA sports in NI and Wales, its different now that Champions League is behind a Paywall. BT are reliant on subscribers over advertisers, if you allow an FTA service broadcast pay TV games you run the risk of loosing or gaining subscribers.

Remember most English broadcasters pay for Rights that cover both Britain and Ireland. I don't think RTE can buy sporting rights for Ireland as a whole, bar GAA and other Irish sports.

FRIENDO · 20-04-2016 5:33pm

But the overspill of Saorsat into the North, Wales, Exceter and Devon is possibly just the same overspill as Saorview would have in these same areas.

What's stopping BT pushing to have the Champions League blocked on Saorview?

Did RTE come under pressure from BT for overspill from both Saorview and Saorsat?

Was Champions League on Saorsat sacrificed "for the greater good"?

lertsnim · 21-04-2016 1:27pm

I don't think they can complain about terrestrial overspill.

FRIENDO · 21-04-2016 3:00pm

lertsnim wrote:

I don't think they can complain about terrestrial overspill.

I was also wondering that myself, possibly different rules apply to satellite overspill.

Digifriendly · 22-04-2016 1:24pm

FRIENDO wrote: »

But the overspill of Saorsat into the North, Wales, Exceter and Devon is possibly just the same overspill as Saorview would have in these same areas.

What's stopping BT pushing to have the Champions League blocked on Saorview?

Did RTE come under pressure from BT for overspill from both Saorview and Saorsat?

Was Champions League on Saorsat sacrificed "for the greater good"?

Just to confirm that CL football on RTE2 is blocked on NIMM ie. Freeview here in NI.
There is no way that CL would be blocked on Saorview as this would mean no-one could watch it in ROI on RTE. Are you suggesting RTE have rights to show it in ROI and then couldn't exercise those rights? I guess its blocked out on Saorsat due to overspill and because so few have Saorsat there is not a major outcry.

FRIENDO · 22-04-2016 4:46pm

RTE have obviously come under pressure with rights issues in relation to the Champions League on Saorsat, so RTE caved in and blocked it.

So what's next?

Vikings
Big Bang theory
Homeland
Home and away
Movies etc

I always believed that the purpose of Saorsat on such a tight beam from 9E was so RTE could protect it's broadcasting rights for various programmes including sports.

If more programmes are blocked on Saorsat over rights issues, would it be fair to say, Saorsat and it's tight beam from 9E has Failed.

Back to the drawing board and a waste of tax payers money.

muffler · 22-04-2016 4:51pm

FRIENDO wrote: »

I always believed that the purpose of Saorsat on such a tight beam from 9E was so RTE could protect it's broadcasting rights for various programmes including sports.

I have little or no knowledge of Saorsat but I always thought that it was introduced to provide coverage to people in certain areas where Saorview wasn't available. Then again the issue of rights is a different animal.

FRIENDO · 22-04-2016 5:05pm

muffler wrote:

I have little or no knowledge of Saorsat but I always thought that it was introduced to provide coverage to people in certain areas where Saorview wasn't available. Then again the issue of rights is a different animal.

Hi muffler, sorry if I'm not clear.

Yes Saorsat was for the 2% of homes in the State unable to get a reliable Saorview reception.

However placing Saorsat on such a tight satellite beam from 9E on Kasat, was I believe so RTE could provide the same programme's on Saorsat as on Saorview, so that Saorsat would not infringe on other jurisdictions broadcasting rights.

Before the arrival of Saorview or Saorsat, I could watch champions league on RTE2 from a local transmitter that has now closed, now I can't watch it on Saorsat due to broadcast rights.

In relation to broadcast rights and infringement on other jurisdiction,
Has RTE/Saorsat failed?

muffler · 22-04-2016 6:16pm

Thanks FRIENDO.

Thats all a bit crazy. So RTE can show various programmes on Saorview but cant on Saorsat? It could only happen in Ireland

marno21 · 23-04-2016 2:58am

lertsnim wrote: »

I don't think they can complain about terrestrial overspill.

Apart from the fact that several RTE transmitters (particularly Clermont Carn, Holywell Hill and Monaghan/Lugad) are specifically designed to cover large swathes of NI. Holywell Hill must cover more homes in NI than it does in the ROI.

notmyusername · 23-04-2016 7:19am

muffler wrote: »

Thanks FRIENDO.

Thats all a bit crazy. So RTE can show various programmes on Saorview but cant on Saorsat? It could only happen in Ireland

Well, no, actually. It happens everywhere. But the only rights affected on Saorsat (that I'm aware of) is Champions League. UEFA are particularly pushy about protecting their product.

Rights for satellite transmission are separate to rights for terrestrial transmission. Other countries are also only allowed broadcast certain programmes within their own territory via satellite. Encryption solves this. Or, in the case of RTÉ, (and the many UK channels that are now FTA) a very tight footprint gets around the issue where some overspill is acceptable.

FRIENDO · 23-04-2016 7:48am

notmyusername wrote:

Well, no, actually. It happens everywhere. But the only rights affected on Saorsat (that I'm aware of) is Champions League. UEFA are particularly pushy about protecting their product.

notmyusername wrote:

Rights for satellite transmission are separate to rights for terrestrial transmission. Other countries are also only allowed broadcast certain programmes within their own territory via satellite. Encryption solves this. Or, in the case of RTÃ‰, (and the many UK channels that are now FTA) a very tight footprint gets around the issue where some overspill is acceptable.

No, in the case of RTE a very tight footprint does not get around the issue where some overspill is acceptable, as Champions League is now blocked.

The blocking of Champions League only became an issue, by chance mabey, but when BT took the rights for live Champions and Europa league over UK and NI.

So if BT complained and RTE blocked Champions League, well what's stopping other providers.

What if Channel 4 complain about Big Bang Theory, Simpsons, Homeland being broadcasted on Saorsat.

If History channel complain about Vikings.

If Channel 5 complained about Home and away or CSI.

Will RTE block these programmes also?

Or mabey the problem is RTE have allowed themselves to be bullied and won't take on BT or mabey BT are correct and the tight footprint of Saorsat is a failure in relation to rights issues.

As a tax payer I'd like to know,

Have RTE just folded/put up no fight to the first broadcaster that came along and challenges them over overspill?

Or is Saorsat in relation to rights issues and overspill a failure and a waste of tax payers money?

notmyusername · 23-04-2016 7:51am

FRIENDO wrote: »

No, in the case of RTE a very tight footprint does not get around the issue where some overspill is acceptable, as Champions League is now blocked.

Err, that's what I said!!!

But, Champions League is the only programme that's blocked.

Some overspill is acceptable on satellite (sporting rights tend to be protected to the extreme though).

FRIENDO · 23-04-2016 7:59am

But mabey it's not just sporting rights, mabey BT have been the first broadcaster to challenge RTE over Saorsat and overspill.

Mabey RTE are hoping other Channels don't challenge them over rights issues for other programmes on Saorsat.

If this is the case and RTE are living in hope of not being challenged, then rights issues and the tight footprint of Saorsat is a cock up and a waste of our taxpayer's money.

notmyusername · 23-04-2016 8:04am

FRIENDO wrote: »

But mabey it's not just sporting rights, mabey BT have been the first broadcaster to challenge RTE over Saorsat and overspill.

Mabey RTE are hoping other Channels don't challenge them over rights issues for other programmes on Saorsat.

If this is the case then rights issues and the tight footprint of Saorsat is a cock up and a waste of our taxpayer's money.

You're a little desperate for it to fail, aren't you? You're doing your best to create issues where there is none.

Some overspill is acceptable when negotiating satellite TV programming rights, as long as this overspill is at an absolute minimum. Same applies to terrestrial overspill.

UEFA just happen to be particularly pushy about enforcing their TV contracts. Maybe you can provide a source in relation to your claim that it was BT who complained BTW?

FRIENDO · 23-04-2016 8:26am

No, I don't want Saorsat to fail.

But the facts are the Champions league is blocked on RTE/Saorsat over rights issues.

My language with BT was "If" and "mabey".

The blocking of Champions League on Saorsat was never an issue when ITV had the FTA rights over the UK and NI.

And I stand corrected, it may well have been UEFA who are protecting their broadcasting rights and doing the contacting, that makes more sense.

notmyusername · 23-04-2016 8:35am

FRIENDO wrote: »

No, I don't want Saorsat to fail.

But the facts are the Champions league is blocked on RTE/Saorsat over rights issues.

My language with BT was "If" and "mabey".

The blocking of Champions League on Saorsat was never an issue when ITV had the FTA rights over the UK and NI.

And I stand corrected, it may well have been UEFA who are protecting their broadcasting rights and doing the contacting, that makes more sense.

My apologies, when you said maybe BT were the first I took your "maybe" to mean others would follow as opposed to "maybe" BT complained.

As it happens ITV held the rights under a previous contract and contract negotiations are different for each contract so it is irrelevant to mention that.

Sporting rights tend to be fiercely protected. No FTA satellite overspill is permitted in most high profile rights negotiations.

Johnboy1951 · 23-04-2016 8:59am

Regardless who is behind the 'challenge' that caused the CL to be blocked, that fact that it is blocked is a concern.

I think it likely that it might be blocked temporarily while the situation is being 'discussed' and a 'defence' is prepared to the challenge.

If the principal of this block is accepted, then there could, in the future, be other challenges, which would make Saorsat much less than it was supposed to be.

I would expect this challenge to be robustly defended ..... but maybe not within the time-frame users would prefer.

Legal challenges and defences take their own sweet time ...

FRIENDO · 23-04-2016 10:17am

Johnboy1951 wrote:

I think it likely that it might be blocked temporarily while the situation is being 'discussed' and a 'defence' is prepared to the challenge.

I hope you are right.
I sent an email on the matter to RTE, below is the reply,

"Due to rights restrictions, RTE's coverage of the Champions League cannot be carried on Saorsat. RTE regrets this unavoidable limitation to the Saorsat service."

Johnboy1951 · 23-04-2016 10:27am

FRIENDO wrote: »

I hope you are right.
I sent an email on the matter to RTE, below is the reply,

"Due to rights restrictions, RTE's coverage of the Champions League cannot be carried on Saorsat. RTE regrets this unavoidable limitation to the Saorsat service."

If ITV/BBC/whoever are showing any sporting event, in the clear, on Astra, do they specifically have the rights for Ireland?

If not then I see no difference in the Saorsat service overspilling into N.I.

I know little about what rights for which areas the broadcasters get for each sporting event.

Does the same then apply to all broadcast content?
Do all broadcasters on Astra have rights to show all their content in Ireland?

If not then why is that not blocked?

notmyusername · 23-04-2016 10:32am

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

If ITV/BBC/whoever are showing any sporting event, in the clear, on Astra, do they specifically have the rights for Ireland?

If not then I see no difference in the Saorsat service overspilling into N.I.

I know little about what rights for which areas the broadcasters get for each sporting event.

Does the same then apply to all broadcast content?
Do all broadcasters on Astra have rights to show all their content in Ireland?

If not then why is that not blocked?

We are talking specifically about Champions League broadcasts.

There is no UK FTA satellite broadcasts of the Champions League spilling over into Rep of Ireland.

BT's FTA games are restricted from satellite broadcast; they are only shown on terrestrial, cable and BT TV.

FTA coverage on satellite needs to be negotiated with UEFA; it is clear that RTÉ did not do this for Saorsat.

FRIENDO · 23-04-2016 11:15am

notmyusername wrote:

BT's FTA games are restricted from satellite broadcast; they are only shown on terrestrial, cable and BT TV.

And BT Showcase can be viewed on Welsh freeview overspill in Wexford, perfect reception.

Welcome to boards notmyusername

notmyusername · 23-04-2016 11:16am

FRIENDO wrote: »

And BT Showcase can be viewed on Welsh freeview overspill in Wexford, perfect reception.

Welcome to boards notmyusername

Thanks for the welcome.

Terrestrial overspill is a different matter to satellite overspill; that's really the point

Johnboy1951 · 23-04-2016 11:46am

notmyusername wrote: »

Thanks for the welcome.

Terrestrial overspill is a different matter to satellite overspill; that's really the point

I guess I do not understand what the difference is.

notmyusername · 23-04-2016 11:49am

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

I guess I do not understand what the difference is.

We are talking about rights restrictions; what don't you understand?

TV companies are entitled to use terrestrial networks to deliver their signal. There will, naturally, be overspill.

Satellite is a different beast altogether, for all the obvious reasons.

When negotiating rights, method of delivery is accounted for.

RTE Announce FTA Saorsat service

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