UFC 200 Jones vs Cormier 2

not yet · 04-04-2016 07:05AM

newbbieb wrote: »

We will for sure,i think its hard to see any way the fight plays out much different at 170 with Diaz on a full camp.

Conor gassed no doubt and was getting off his stool tired for round 2 but once Nate landed on him he couldn't handle the power,without doubt he was gassed and was just standing there and easy to hit,but over a five rounder Nate won't gas and its unimaginable that he won't land on Conor again at some point i would love to be wrong and hope it plays out different but i can't see how Conor beats him at this weight.

Although he walks around at 170+ He had never fought at that before, anyone I've spoken to that is involved in the fitness game have said you need a lot more oxygen in your system if you go up 25lbs,maybe him and his team miscalculated this effect. I'd like to believe he will come back stronger and wiser..

Be seriously interesting to see if he trash talks at the presser.

JustTheOne · 04-04-2016 07:10AM

not yet wrote: »

Although he walks around at 170+ He had never fought at that before, anyone I've spoken to that is involved in the fitness game have said you need a lot more oxygen in your system if you go up 25lbs,maybe him and his team miscalculated this effect. I'd like to believe he will come back stronger and wiser..

Be seriously interesting to see if he trash talks at the presser.

How will that be seriously interesting?

I'm more interested in how the fight will go his training leading up to it etc.

Is conor's trash talking the most interesting thing to some people?

newbbieb · 04-04-2016 07:27AM

JustTheOne wrote: »

How will that be seriously interesting?

I'm more interested in how the fight will go his training leading up to it etc.

Is conor's trash talking the most interesting thing to some people?

I think it still might be somewhat interesting to see how he reacts to Nate this time round in any bout of pressers,because any **** from Conor will just be shut right down by Nate by calling him a panicked wrestler/bitch who tapped etc.

Conor will for the first time be on the defensive in any pressers so i think from that aspect it might be interesting to see the difference.

Mellor · 04-04-2016 07:28AM

newbbieb wrote: »

,ิbut it would be a big coincidence that he happened to gas from a chest infection the same fight that he jumped up significant weight

not yet wrote: »

anyone I've spoken to that is involved in the fitness game have said you need a lot more oxygen in your system if you go up 25lbs

He didn't go up in weight by 25bs. Or anything remotely close to that much.
I'd expect most people in the fitness game to be aware of that.

JustTheOne · 04-04-2016 09:16AM

newbbieb wrote: »

I think it still might be somewhat interesting to see how he reacts to Nate this time round in any bout of pressers,because any **** from Conor will just be shut right down by Nate by calling him a panicked wrestler/bitch who tapped etc.

Conor will for the first time be on the defensive in any pressers so i think from that aspect it might be interesting to see the difference.

Ah he will just say nate one the first exchange I wasn't efficient but I'll win this one.

not yet · 04-04-2016 10:13AM

JustTheOne wrote: »

How will that be seriously interesting?

I'm more interested in how the fight will go his training leading up to it etc.

Is conor's trash talking the most interesting thing to some people?

Cool your jets there..

I was simply saying it will give a good insight into the way he's thinking, if he genuinely thinks he can beat Diaz then we'll see the same Mcgregor as previous pressers.

JustTheOne · 04-04-2016 10:16AM

not yet wrote: »

Cool your jets there..

I was simply saying it will give a good insight into the way he's thinking, if he genuinely thinks he can beat Diaz then we'll see the same Mcgregor as previous pressers.

Ah I know sorry came cross wrong.

DeVore · 04-04-2016 11:23AM

I don't understand this idea that Conor was fighting at a higher weight. He wasn't. He "limbo's" under 145 the day before the fight and then rehydrates back to something around the 160s. He wasn't fighting at any significantly more than he would normally and in fact, having NOT just put his body through that stress he should have been in better shape.

The idea that he gassed (and he definitely gassed) because he was carrying 20kg more is ludicrous. He trains and indeed fights at roughly the weight he walked into the cage with Diaz at. How people don't get that I don't know.

DeVore · 04-04-2016 11:28AM

Secondly, the reason he got lit up by Diaz in the second was his energy level. Conors style is to keep his hands down to protect from take downs and to lure his opponents into stretching for a punch, he uses his lightening fast head movement to avoid their attack and counters with that left hook. That's not his only trick but its a major one in his arsenal.

His style is entirely built around his boxing prowess. Yes he had kicks and BJJ escapes etc, but he relies on his slips and hooks a lot to finish fights and those are boxing 101.

Kill his cardio and he doesn't have the head movement to avoid the attacks. His reaction times noticeably dropped in the second and his game fell apart as a result.

Spudman_20000 · 04-04-2016 11:34AM

DeVore wrote: »

The idea that he gassed (and he definitely gassed) because he was carrying 20kg more is ludicrous. He trains and indeed fights at roughly the weight he walked into the cage with Diaz at. How people don't get that I don't know.

I really think something was off with Conor physically before the fight. In his post-fight interview with Ariel, he says something like "there were opportunities to pull, even after Nate came in, but I didn't" and he said something similar in the post-presser.

I assume "opportunities to pull" would refer to physical issues, as I don't think Conor is one for sitting around waiting for fights further down the road.

The rematch should be intriguing. Both guys will have full camps, knowing exactly the weight and who they are preparing for. Zero excuses on both sides.

And I think Conor gets more credit if he wins the rematch than if he'd won first time out, because Nate had no camp, so we'd have been listening to that excuse afterwards.

not yet · 04-04-2016 12:00PM

DeVore wrote: »

I don't understand this idea that Conor was fighting at a higher weight. He wasn't. He "limbo's" under 145 the day before the fight and then rehydrates back to something around the 160s. He wasn't fighting at any significantly more than he would normally and in fact, having NOT just put his body through that stress he should have been in better shape.

The idea that he gassed (and he definitely gassed) because he was carrying 20kg more is ludicrous. He trains and indeed fights at roughly the weight he walked into the cage with Diaz at. How people don't get that I don't know.

Then maybe it is true about the chest infection, and with him taking the piss out of Aldo and RDA about ''injuries'' he couldn't be seen to be whinging about a pussy chest infection..

Gamebred · 04-04-2016 12:11PM

DeVore wrote: »

Secondly, the reason he got lit up by Diaz in the second was his energy level. Conors style is to keep his hands down to protect from take downs and to lure his opponents into stretching for a punch, he uses his lightening fast head movement to avoid their attack and counters with that left hook. That's not his only trick but its a major one in his arsenal.

His style is entirely built around his boxing prowess. Yes he had kicks and BJJ escapes etc, but he relies on his slips and hooks a lot to finish fights and those are boxing 101.

Kill his cardio and he doesn't have the head movement to avoid the attacks. His reaction times noticeably dropped in the second and his game fell apart as a result.

Ah come on before Nate Landed on the chin Conor was standing in the middle of the octagon flat footed and not moving,its clear as day he was gassed out after the first round weather it was adrenaline lack of cardio or an illness he 100% wasnt right entering that 2nd rd,its not an excuse its a contributing factor in him getting tagged easily.

Swashbuckler · 04-04-2016 12:13PM

DeVore wrote: »

I don't understand this idea that Conor was fighting at a higher weight. He wasn't. He "limbo's" under 145 the day before the fight and then rehydrates back to something around the 160s. He wasn't fighting at any significantly more than he would normally and in fact, having NOT just put his body through that stress he should have been in better shape.

The idea that he gassed (and he definitely gassed) because he was carrying 20kg more is ludicrous. He trains and indeed fights at roughly the weight he walked into the cage with Diaz at. How people don't get that I don't know.

What I don't understand is he was preparing for 155lbs so I would have thought he would want to be cutting from 175lbs for that but he weighed in at 167lbs?

But you're right. The people saying he gassed coz of "extra weight" are way off the mark. He would have fought Aldo at approx 167lbs. He did look noticeably more muscular than normal tho so he certainly looked bulkier.

DeVore · 04-04-2016 12:18PM

Gamebred wrote: »

Ah come on before Nate Landed on the chin Conor was standing in the middle of the octagon flat footed and not moving,its clear as day he was gassed out after the first round weather it was adrenaline lack of cardio or an illness he 100% wasnt right entering that 2nd rd,its not an excuse its a contributing factor in him getting tagged easily.

Ehhhh... that's what I said.

DeVore · 04-04-2016 12:23PM

Swashbuckler wrote: »

What I don't understand is he was preparing for 155lbs so I would have thought he would want to be cutting from 175lbs for that but he weighed in at 167lbs?

But you're right. The people saying he gassed coz of "extra weight" are way off the mark. He would have fought Aldo at approx 167lbs. He did look noticeably more muscular than normal tho so he certainly looked bulkier.

Yeah, he probably walks around at 167. He wouldn't have been cutting weight 2+ weeks out from a fight which is when Diaz subbed in and they agreed 170. He looked noticeably more muscular because muscle is where most of the water is cut from, even with rehydration the muscles don't recover that quickly ie: overnight. His muscle and skin tone would look much better not having cut weight than if he cut and rehydrated back to the same weight.
He fought at, or near the same weight as usual. The only difference would be a positive, in that he didn't put his body through the stress of a dehydration. If anything, he should have had MORE cardio for this fight, certainly not less.

evil_seed · 04-04-2016 12:39PM

It's all well and good saying you have the cardio to go all day. What's the point in that though. I'm always puzzled at fighters training so much when the fight lasts 15/25 mins.
The training should be tailored for this IMO. No point have the cardio to go for 4-5 hours. You need cardio for the explosiveness and pace for 3 or 5 rounds.
Just my opinion

Swashbuckler · 04-04-2016 12:40PM

DeVore wrote: »

Yeah, he probably walks around at 167. He wouldn't have been cutting weight 2+ weeks out from a fight which is when Diaz subbed in and they agreed 170. He looked noticeably more muscular because muscle is where most of the water is cut from, even with rehydration the muscles don't recover that quickly ie: overnight. His muscle and skin tone would look much better not having cut weight than if he cut and rehydrated back to the same weight.
He fought at, or near the same weight as usual. The only difference would be a positive, in that he didn't put his body through the stress of a dehydration. If anything, he should have had MORE cardio for this fight, certainly not less.

So based on that do you reckon it was his intention to fight RDA at the same weight (in the octagon) that he normally fights when fighting at FW? i.e. approx 167lbs.

Wrongway1985 · 04-04-2016 01:29PM

evil_seed wrote: »

It's all well and good saying you have the cardio to go all day. What's the point in that though. I'm always puzzled at fighters training so much when the fight lasts 15/25 mins.
The training should be tailored for this IMO. No point have the cardio to go for 4-5 hours. You need cardio for the explosiveness and pace for 3 or 5 rounds.
Just my opinion

All well and good if significant strikes weren't absorbed = gas tank depleting

Not to mention the likes of panic or something that plays a part in breathing pattern.

I would guess as regards training that the guy who trains for 2 hours a day for instance 9/10 is more skilled/durable than one who trains for 1 hour. Training designed for 3 or 5 rounds like you say assumes the fighter knows it all and has nothing new to learn ideal if you can find that guy a rare breed clearly.

newbbieb · 04-04-2016 01:39PM

DeVore wrote: »

I don't understand this idea that Conor was fighting at a higher weight. He wasn't. He "limbo's" under 145 the day before the fight and then rehydrates back to something around the 160s. He wasn't fighting at any significantly more than he would normally and in fact, having NOT just put his body through that stress he should have been in better shape.

The idea that he gassed (and he definitely gassed) because he was carrying 20kg more is ludicrous. He trains and indeed fights at roughly the weight he walked into the cage with Diaz at. How people don't get that I don't know.

I actually heard something similiar to this come from someone in Conors camp but they have reasons to sell it not as not being a weight issue imo.

Anyone who believes the Conor we seen at 196 was weighing the same fight night as previous fights needs to rewatch some tape,and use their eyes.He was slower and bulkier in this fight in the cage. The previous Conor we seen was always lean in the cage,compare the Mendes fight Conor,to 196 Conor and tell me with a straight face that he weighed near the same in the cage.

Lukker- · 04-04-2016 02:41PM

He was 3 or 4 pounds heavier. His strength and conditioning coach and JK both said as much.

He was about 165 vs Aldo and 168 vs. Diaz.

He might have been over 175 during camp if he was loading water but that became unnecessary when the fight when RDAs pulled out and he was fighting at 170.

DeVore · 04-04-2016 04:45PM

Swashbuckler wrote: »

So based on that do you reckon it was his intention to fight RDA at the same weight (in the octagon) that he normally fights when fighting at FW? i.e. approx 167lbs.

Yes, basically a similar fight weight, with an easier cut for him in the run up.

He *can't* afford to bulk up on muscle because he knows he has to go back to 145 at some stage and bulking up to fight RDA would put an end to that. He already has enough trouble making 145 so yeah, I think he planned to fight RDA at the same weight as he normally fights. The fact that he entered the cage with Diaz at 167ish backs that up too. He cant afford to put on the weight if he wants to see 145 again soon.

sonofenoch · 04-04-2016 05:06PM

Spudman_20000 wrote: »

I really think something was off with Conor physically before the fight. In his post-fight interview with Ariel, he says something like "there were opportunities to pull, even after Nate came in, but I didn't" and he said something similar in the post-presser.

.

Somebody mentioned his movement before the fight (think it was Schaub)said he kicked at one of the middle stantions as per normal and missed .....the freedom of movement wasn't there....where was his weird ape stances

Deadst4r · 04-04-2016 05:13PM

sonofenoch wrote: »

Somebody mentioned his movement before the fight (think it was Schaub)said he kicked at one of the middle stantions as per normal and missed .....the freedom of movement wasn't there....where was his weird ape stances

have to agree.

his head movement was good but he wasn't light on his feet, he looked 'stuck in the mud'

edit - good head movement in the first....obviously

Swashbuckler · 04-04-2016 06:01PM

DeVore wrote: »

Yes, basically a similar fight weight, with an easier cut for him in the run up.

He *can't* afford to bulk up on muscle because he knows he has to go back to 145 at some stage and bulking up to fight RDA would put an end to that. He already has enough trouble making 145 so yeah, I think he planned to fight RDA at the same weight as he normally fights. The fact that he entered the cage with Diaz at 167ish backs that up too. He cant afford to put on the weight if he wants to see 145 again soon.

I get what you're saying that muscle holds water etc but I've seen pics of him in camp for the Aldo fight and for the RDA camp. This would be while not cutting and he looks noticeably bigger in camp for RDA. I 2as shocked when I saw he weighed in at 167lbs

Wrongway1985 · 22-04-2016 05:42PM

Presser for 200 @ 10pm our time tonight.

The threads main event title may need altering though or even close it!

CSF · 22-04-2016 05:47PM

Wrongway1985 wrote: »

Presser for 200 @ 10pm our time tonight.

The threads main event title may need altering though or even close it!

I can't imagine it's not gonna be the announcement of an alternative main event. To have the press conference otherwise would just be anarchy because the whole thing would just centre around Conor.

I mean that's gonna be a thing anyway, but at least if you've something new to announce, you've something new to talk about instead.

martyos121 · 22-04-2016 05:53PM

CSF wrote: »

I can't imagine it's not gonna be the announcement of an alternative main event. To have the press conference otherwise would just be anarchy because the whole thing would just centre around Conor.

I mean that's gonna be a thing anyway, but at least if you've something new to announce, you've something new to talk about instead.

Doubt they'd have a new main event yet, and if it was a big one it'd be leaked by now I'd say. It's going to be a shîtstorm of a presser, that's for sure.

lougal88 · 22-04-2016 06:02PM

martyos121 wrote: »

Doubt they'd have a new main event yet, and if it was a big one it'd be leaked by now I'd say. It's going to be a shîtstorm of a presser, that's for sure.

It's probably going to be a bit of a let down.

Best case scenario is the announcement of the Aldo v Edgar fight for the VACANT FW Title.

But more likely just "We're currently working on a new main event" and talking to the fighters about their respective fights.

King_of_Kingz · 22-04-2016 10:43PM

I don't know but judging by these comments from tonight I wouldn't hold out much hope of a kiss and make up before 200.

http://t.co/zPQiSrYSMK

That photo of Dana and Nate talking after the conference though, imagine the conversation taking place there...

Swashbuckler · 22-04-2016 10:47PM

I guess its all speculation at the end of the day but I've watched Dana over the years and when soemthing aint gonna happen he flat out goes and says it. All I got from him in that press conference was wishy washy "its not fair on these guys". If Dana feels strongly about something he usually just says "He's off the card". plain and simple. Add to that Diaz obviously still wants the McG fight....I dunno...It's still open for me. They are either holding out on sorting the McG issue or waiting to see how Jones comes out of the OSP fight.

UFC 200 Jones vs Cormier 2

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