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UCD Ag science banter

123468

Comments

  • #152
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 12,694 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Luke92 wrote: »
    Has anyone visited Louise O' Neill on Facebook? She's an author. Feminist. An all out equality activist. She just posted a picture basically pointing out why black people can't be racist. Someone commented saying this.

    Comment: When a black kid tells my daughter that she can't be on the roundabout at the playground because she is white.... Pretty sure that is racist.

    Louise: It's really not, Fiona. Your daughter is able to open a magazine and see people who look like her. She's able to go to the movies and watch stories featuring people that look like her. She can buy makeup that matches her ski tone, she hasn't been told since she was a small child that her features and hair are somehow unacceptable. She isn't more likely to be shot by the police, she isn't more likely to be expelled at school. She won't have the experience of going into a shop and being followed around just by virtue of being a person of colour. Believe me, your daughter is not experiencing racism.


    That right there is why I'm banned from commenting on her page and just right away if someone has feminist views I know what to expect.

    Always the same type of people. Let's take all the refugees. No, black people can't be racist. Women need equal rights, all men want to rape women. Screw the Catholic Church. If you follow catholicism you're inherently evil, but sure leave Muslims because it's their religion and that's what they believe in.

    Bit of a rant but yeah, those type of people annoy me. Just a little bit :D

    This kind of post always reminds me of: years ago the Daily mail had a distinct anti Irish bias and I knew someone who use to buy the paper occasional just to be outraged by it anti Irish bias.

    If you subscribe to certain web sites you know what you are getting.


  • #153
    orubiru
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,290 ✭✭✭orubiru


    Azalea wrote: »
    The commenter's daughter certainly is experiencing racism.
    The fact white people enjoy more "privilege" in certain contexts and despite racism coming from different historical angles, racism is discrimination based on skin colour, which that child experienced. Quite appalling of that author to say it wasn't.

    To be fair to the author, it does seem like it might be a bit of "white guilt". If they've been sufficiently indoctrinated into that way of thinking then they may genuinely believe that putting white people through a "now you know what it feels like" type situation is a way to atone for the sins of previous generations.

    Though it kind of doesn't make much sense for Irish people to feel that sort of guilt, when you think about it.

    How would she untangle a situation where a kid from Rwanda from a Hutu background was telling Rwandan kid from a Tutsi background that they can't be on the roundabout?

    Or maybe a kid from Pakistan scuffling with a Nigerian kid because they don't like each other based on race?

    As soon as there's a white kid in the equation they are fair game for bullying because they won't be followed around department stores when they grow up? Jeez.


  • #154
    Azalea
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,796 ✭✭✭Azalea


    mariaalice wrote: »
    This kind of post always reminds me of: years ago the Daily mail had a distinct anti Irish bias and I knew someone who use to buy the paper occasional just to be outraged by it anti Irish bias.

    If you subscribe to certain web sites you know what you are getting.
    You could say that about utterly any negative opinion given on anything


  • #155
    RWCNT
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,430 ✭✭✭RWCNT


    orubiru wrote: »
    As soon as there's a white kid in the equation they are fair game for bullying because they won't be followed around department stores when they grow up? Jeez.

    Is she really saying that the white kid is fair game, though? She's simply stating that it isn't racism. Surely bullying and discriminating against someone is wrong regardless of whatever sociological theories on the definition of racism you subscribe to?

    Also, this thread surely holds the record for off-topic tangents by now.


  • #156
    One eyed Jack
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,180 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack


    RWCNT wrote: »
    Is she really saying that the white kid is fair game, though? She's simply stating that it isn't racism. Surely bullying and discriminating against someone is wrong regardless of whatever sociological theories on the definition of racism you subscribe to?

    Also, this thread surely holds the record for off-topic tangents by now.




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  • #157
    recylingbin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,001 ✭✭✭recylingbin


    Kev W wrote: »
    I love that in a post where you complain that I tried to make a serious point in what you consider a jokey thread you take a post making fun of you completely seriously.

    LOVE it.

    You made fun of yourself ultimately.


  • #158
    Kev W
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,536 ✭✭✭Kev W


    recylingbin wrote: »
    You made fun of yourself ultimately.

    The "I'm rubber, you're glue" defence.

    Classic.


  • #159
    Azalea
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,796 ✭✭✭Azalea


    mariaalice wrote: »
    Rating people sexually, sharing intimate photo of people they have had sex with be the motivation bravado, boasting or revenge. Its got an underlying viciousness to it and is a denial of the person hood of who they are talking about.
    Yep. It's despicable. It's not harmless lad banter.

    I disagree with the term rape culture though.
    RWCNT wrote: »
    Is she really saying that the white kid is fair game, though? She's simply stating that it isn't racism. Surely bullying and discriminating against someone is wrong regardless of whatever sociological theories on the definition of racism you subscribe to?.
    She is wrong to say the girl didn't experience racism though - sure, that white child will likely never experience racism at a societal level but that doesn't make individual instances of it invalid... especially when a little kid is the target. That white middle-class guilt stuff is so cringey. And I say that as a white middle-class liberal.


  • #160
    upandcumming
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,718 ✭✭✭upandcumming


    Professor Rodgers stated that “the investigation found no evidence of the existence of such a group where UCD students were posting nude photographs of female students and then rating them.”

    http://www.universityobserver.ie/news/ucd200-allegations-not-upheld-by-ucd/

    No evidence found.

    Any apology going to the students of Ag Science?


  • #161
    arayess
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,707 ✭✭✭arayess


    So as I suspected It never happened.
    Much ado about nothing.

    Made up bullsh1t designed to demonize men and push an agenda.,
    Consent class for all.. on the back of made up stories though..:rolleyes::rolleyes:

    Read the bit in bold....it was all horsesh1t from day 1.


    http://www.joe.ie/news/ucd-the-revenge-porn-facebook-page-was-all-unsubstantiated-hearsay/530849
    In a lengthy communication - which we publish in full below - Professor Rogers announced several findings of the University's report.

    These include...

    The person who made the allegations to The College Tribune was basing her claims on hearsay, having come across the information about the rumoured Facebook page on Yik Yak.

    'The claims,' say the University, 'in the article have been fully investigated and have been found to be unsubstantiated.'
    No student came forward looking for support having been depicted in the alleged Facebook group.

    Rogers notes that, 'on the matter of the existence of the alleged private Facebook groupchat with as many as 200 members, the investigation found no evidence of the existence of such a group where UCD students were posting nude photographs of female students and then rating them.'

    While he spoke to several students who had read rumours of the group on Yik Yak, he spoke to no students with first hand knowledge of such a group.

    An amateur photograph of a model posing in a bikini was posted to the Ag Science Facebook page on 30 November 2015, taken from a publicly accessible site in the UK. It was not removed until 4 January 2016.
    Nothing found in the investigation merits referral to the Gardaí.


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  • #162
    strelok
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,162 ✭✭✭strelok


    http://www.universityobserver.ie/news/consent-classes-to-begin-at-ucd-following-allegations-of-revenge-porn/

    hey, at least they got their consent classes out of it


  • #163
    RayM
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,973 ✭✭✭RayM


    Someone posted on this thread, claiming to know some of those involved in the group. When challenged upon it, he closed his account.


  • #164
    orubiru
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,290 ✭✭✭orubiru


    upandcumming wrote: »
    http://www.universityobserver.ie/news/ucd200-allegations-not-upheld-by-ucd/

    No evidence found.

    Any apology going to the students of Ag Science?

    So this was all just an example of believing Hearsay Culture?


  • #165
    BigJackC
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 333 ✭✭BigJackC


    I assume that every media outlet that ran this story without a single shred of evidence to back it up will now issue an unreserved apology to UCD Agricultural Science students?


  • #166
    tritium
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,793 ✭✭✭tritium


    BigJackC wrote: »
    I assume that every media outlet that ran this story without a single shred of evidence to back it up will now issue an unreserved apology to UCD Agricultural Science students?

    About as likely as the folks with pitchforks on this thread condemning those who used hyperbole and exagerration to push their agenda.

    Then again I'm still waiting for the condemnation of the Huffington post article from a few pages back - guess some posters just haven't logged in for a while.... :)


  • #167
    upandcumming
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,718 ✭✭✭upandcumming


    tritium wrote:
    Then again I'm still waiting for the condemnation of the Huffington post article from a few pages back - guess some posters just haven't logged in for a while....

    Which article is that?


  • #168
    Letree
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,005 ✭✭✭Letree


    I was reading some of the comments on twitter about this whole affair. I'm beginning to thing the internet is a disaster for humanity.


  • #169
    Red King
    Closed Accounts Posts: 716 ✭✭✭Red King


    Is this an example of rape hysteria culture?


  • #170
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,330 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    So it looks like it never happened eh? Hmmm.

    Me. Earlier in the thread.
    Wibbs wrote: »
    I have found it is damned near an axiom that when the term "rape culture" is brought up in connection with modern western liberal societies, what follows is usually hysterical nonsense.

    Yup, I win a prize, though usually in cases like these it's the shooting fish in a barrel prize. With a howitzer.

    Many worry about Artificial Intelligence. I worry far more about Organic Idiocy.



  • #171
    malnurtured
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 107 ✭✭malnurtured


    Azalea wrote: »
    It is totally creepy and invasive.

    I was triggered by that huffpost link. Reverse rape culture if I've ever seen one.


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  • #172
    arayess
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,707 ✭✭✭arayess


    Letree wrote: »
    I was reading some of the comments on twitter about this whole affair. I'm beginning to thing the internet is a disaster for humanity.

    even after the findings there were a huge amount of people who just wouldn't believe it.

    Allegations of money changing hands and UCD protecting it's reputation.
    It's like people are warped to believing internet concepts like rape culture exist on every street corner rather than using their own minds and experiences.

    But we will see no apology .

    One comment on Joe.ie was a screen shot of an email to joe.ie asking for a comment on an article they published on the basis of the UCD allegations being true.
    Their reply was that they stood over the article nonetheless despite the basis of the article being that the students in UCD were guilty.

    It's a sad state of affairs.


  • #173
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,330 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    arayess wrote: »
    even after the findings there were a huge amount of people who just wouldn't believe it.

    Allegations of money changing hands and UCD protecting it's reputation.
    It's like people are warped to believing internet concepts like rape culture exist on every street corner rather than using their own minds and experiences.
    What you're observing here in full flow A is an actual witch hunt. If you recall the Salem witch trials were kicked of by a few hysterics that the authorities took seriously, because there was an embedded mindset. In colleges and increasingly beyond their gates(and sadly we're bring this nonsense from the US)"rape culture" and Women are perpetual victims(™) are the equivalents of spell casting and divination. All it needs is one attention seeking nutter to kick it off and here we are. And this guff can ruin individuals lives too.
    But we will see no apology .
    Of course not, that goes way off script. It would admit too much.
    One comment on Joe.ie was a screen shot of an email to joe.ie asking for a comment on an article they published on the basis of the UCD allegations being true.
    Their reply was that they stood over the article nonetheless despite the basis of the article being that the students in UCD were guilty.

    It's a sad state of affairs.
    Similar happened in the US of A a year or so ago, but since everything's bigger over there… Rolling Stone magazine reported on a bunch of mass rapes and a pervading rape culture in some US university or other and the craw thumpers and bleeding hearts were out in force. But... it was a nonsense, a complete fabrication of another notice box nutter. Lawsuits were pending last time I looked. At least Rolling Stone had the decency to retract the article, that Joe.ie didn't says much. Yes we've imported this hysteria from the Yanks, but as history has shown the Irish are more than capable of society wide institutionalised witch hunts and hysteria.

    Many worry about Artificial Intelligence. I worry far more about Organic Idiocy.



  • #174
    smurgen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,933 ✭✭✭smurgen


    The joe comments on the article showing he finding of the reports are just as depressing more than a few from women saying there's no smoke without fire etc....I tell you one thing,as a man I'm delighted to be out of collage if this is the mindset if some women floating around them.


  • #175
    Kev W
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,536 ✭✭✭Kev W


    smurgen wrote: »
    I'm delighted to be out of collage

    Maybe a little bit longer wouldn't have hurt. :)


  • #176
    tritium
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,793 ✭✭✭tritium


    Kev W wrote: »
    Maybe a little bit longer wouldn't have hurt. :)

    To be fair, he/ she wasn't the one who managed to link a fictitious clickbait story someone pulled out of their ass to rape culture....

    What is your take on a whole body of male students being demonized on the basis of hearsay and innuendo by the way? Surely an allegation of this nature is also a form of sexual violence?


  • #177
    smurgen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,933 ✭✭✭smurgen


    Kev W wrote: »
    Maybe a little bit longer wouldn't have hurt. :)

    6 years,masters and undergraduate degree.I'm good at my job.in my opinion I had enough.


  • #178
    orubiru
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,290 ✭✭✭orubiru


    For me, I was OK with assuming that the situation at UCD was real, that this group actually existed, that these pictures actually existed. I took all of the accusations on good faith because what kind of person makes up stories like this?

    I was wrong to assume and now I feel like a bit of a fool for listening and believing.

    As it turns out, the poster who was rounded on for saying "this thread is useless without pics" was actually, though probably unintentionally, making the most valid point on the thread.

    I was happy to jump on the "this is a disgrace and these lads should be hammered by the law" bandwagon but was not willing to concede that this kind of thing is a gendered issue. For that I was basically told that I'm wrong and that is is all about "men vs women" because women are killed by men.

    Am I now free to claim that society has a problem with women making up stories about young lads at universities, spreading them around online, then refusing to backtrack when the stories are proven to be nothing more than hearsay? Even here I'd say it's not a gendered issue. Many people are liars. Many people have agendas to push, and are happy to lie to achieve their goals because they think that the ends justify the means.

    So many people came out on this in full Ken Katz mode. Spreading their narrative around and poisoning the well before any rational discussion could get going. Why would they do that?

    Is it just a desire to be seen as a "good person"? Is it because they believe that they can make society better and if that means believing made up stories then they are OK with that? Or is it something more sinister?

    What is the goal here? To introduce consent classes into every university? Fine, I can see the value in consent classes but I think they should be introduced long before kids hit university. What percentage of boys even go to a university anyway?

    What worries me is when you have to make up stories to show that there is a problem because your goal is to introduce solutions to problems that you are inventing yourself. Who is providing the solutions, the people who've created the problem? Are they being paid for this? Is this whole thing really just about money?

    1. Claim we need consent classes.
    2. Make up stories to convince the public we need consent classes.
    3. Offer to run consent classes for a reasonable fee.
    4. Profit!

    How can we, as a society, have any kind of level headed discussion about rape, sexual assault and consent when people are SO quick to believe any old stories? How can we make any progress when people have to invent stories to make their points and then refuse to back down when it's proven that these stories are just fictional?

    If you believe that Rape Culture is a problem and men are the cause, then how far would you be willing to go to keep that belief intact?

    Is it fine to believe made up stories without question because it strengthens your confidence in your personal worldview?

    Does an example like this not make you stop and think "what if I'm being lied to"?


  • #179
    Rough Sleeper
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 803 ✭✭✭Rough Sleeper


    tritium wrote: »
    To be fair, he/ she wasn't the one who managed to link a fictitious clickbait story someone pulled out of their ass to rape culture....
    LOL, ****ing told.


  • #180
    The Black Oil
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Regional East Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 19,479 CMod ✭✭✭✭The Black Oil


    Not sure what to make of the investigation. Twitter's pretty up in arms about it.

    https://twitter.com/alan_maguire/status/698260998973689858

    https://twitter.com/alan_maguire/status/698252288306106368

    https://twitter.com/amyohconnor/status/698251907077373955

    https://twitter.com/amyohconnor/status/698254818725462016

    Yik Yak, I presume is similar to Snapchat or something like that?

    Moderator: Television, Psychology and Dublin County North.

    CMod: Entertainment



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  • #181
    upandcumming
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,718 ✭✭✭upandcumming


    Jaysus that Alan Maguire chap really wants it to be real.


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