Denver Broncos Thread

Jolly Red Giant · 30-05-2015 1:42am

poldebruin wrote: »

A great pity. One of the top talents on the team, and as you mentioned, may spell the end of his career as a Bronco.

A small silver lining is the timing, we reached a Superbowl with Clady missing almost the entire season a couple of years ago, but we have the chance to make a move for a replacement with the season still months away. Next year's draft choice maybe traded?

Ryan Harris has been signed to play RT and Ty Sambrailo has been moved to LT.

Peyton better get rid of the ball quick on those play-action passes.

Jolly Red Giant · 17-07-2015 1:42pm

The Broncos sign Bay Bay to a 5 year $70million deal with $43.5million guaranteed and front loaded.

poldebruin · 17-07-2015 6:57pm

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

The Broncos sign Bay Bay to a 5 year $70million deal with $43.5million guaranteed and front loaded.

I saw that, and while I'm not generally that interested, or knowledgeable about the busi ess side of the nfl, salary cap and contract-wise, it's such a huge part of the game and as vital to building a winning team.

I have to say, I'm not that happy aboit it to be honest. With julius thomas leaving, they were always going to try and retain dt, but personally i don't see the value in paying that much for a wr, even if he is top 5 (which i dont think he is). As usual, Peyton Manning has turned this guy into a star, and we will see his true worth when Osweiler is flinging it his way next year.

Jolly Red Giant · 18-07-2015 1:08am

poldebruin wrote: »

I have to say, I'm not that happy aboit it to be honest. With julius thomas leaving, they were always going to try and retain dt, but personally i don't see the value in paying that much for a wr, even if he is top 5 (which i dont think he is). As usual, Peyton Manning has turned this guy into a star, and we will see his true worth when Osweiler is flinging it his way next year.

Bay Bay is a terrific WR - and has a reputation for being a great locker room guy. He showed the talent when Tebow was QB and he will show it when Manning is gone. Elway paid the going rate for a WR as talented as Thomas. The Broncos didn't need a TE who hates contact and got grossly overpaid but keeping a WR as good as Bay Bay will benefit whichever QB comes after Manning.

Elway has also been very smart in the way he structured the contract. The contract is frontloaded so that the Broncos can sign Von (to either a long term contract or the franchise tag) and Jackson next season. The Broncos have worked the cap well this coming season and will be in good shape the following year as well. Elway has repeatedly made the point that the Broncos are not in 'win now' mode - but 'win from now on'.

poldebruin · 18-07-2015 10:14am

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

Bay Bay is a terrific WR - and has a reputation for being a great locker room guy. He showed the talent when Tebow was QB and he will show it when Manning is gone. Elway paid the going rate for a WR as talented as Thomas.

I wasn't as clear as I wanted to be in my prior post. I agree Thomas is a very good/terrific receiver, and I don't doubt that is the market and Elway didn't overpay - I just don't like spending tying up large sums of cap room in wide receivers in general. I just don't believe you get the value back when you do - even with someone like Calvin Johnson. I believe you hamstring the team for what is essentially an interchangeable position.

I think there is far better value in (so called) second tier WR or building the position through the draft. I can't think of any "star" WR, signed through free agency, for example, that turned the fortunes of a team - usually quite the opposite. Mike Wallace, Percy Harvin, DeSean Jackson, Vincent Jackson (and possibly Jeremy Macklin!) are all excellent receivers, recently signed to big contracts who, whether they performed or not, did not change the fortunes of their respective teams (for the better).

Jolly Red Giant · 18-07-2015 7:47pm

poldebruin wrote: »

I wasn't as clear as I wanted to be in my prior post. I agree Thomas is a very good/terrific receiver, and I don't doubt that is the market and Elway didn't overpay - I just don't like spending tying up large sums of cap room in wide receivers in general. I just don't believe you get the value back when you do - even with someone like Calvin Johnson. I believe you hamstring the team for what is essentially an interchangeable position.

I think there is far better value in (so called) second tier WR or building the position through the draft. I can't think of any "star" WR, signed through free agency, for example, that turned the fortunes of a team - usually quite the opposite. Mike Wallace, Percy Harvin, DeSean Jackson, Vincent Jackson (and possibly Jeremy Macklin!) are all excellent receivers, recently signed to big contracts who, whether they performed or not, did not change the fortunes of their respective teams (for the better).

I would generally agree with this sentiment. Most teams that win the SB do not have an elite WR the talent of Bay Bay.

However, Elway has done a terrific job of managing the cap - the deal for Thomas is front loaded so the it will have low cap impact after next year - and while Von and Jackdon have to be signed, Ware will be gone, Clady will be gone and Manning will be gone releasing more than enough cap space to sign the players that are needed.

When it is possible to keep an elite receiver then it would be daft to lt him walk.
And the deal signed by Thomas is the deal that was originally put on the table by Elway. Elway set the value and if Thomas insisted on more than the Broncos could afford he would have been allowed to walk. One key aspect of this is now, if it is necessary, the Broncos can use the franchise tag in Von.

Jolly Red Giant · 25-07-2015 6:55pm

Derek Wolfe DL suspended for 4 games for PEDs

Morrisseeee · 17-08-2015 5:53pm

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

Derek Wolfe DL suspended for 4 games for PEDs

If that was cycling, he'd be gone for 2 years

By all accounts Osweiler played well in our 1st pre-season game, he had a nice throw for a TD to Green. Our D came up with some sacks but....our special teams got a spanking !

eagle eye · 17-08-2015 6:04pm

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

Derek Wolfe DL suspended for 4 games for PEDs

Waiting now for Peyton's ban for being generally aware of this.

Jolly Red Giant · 18-08-2015 7:53pm

Morrisseeee wrote: »

If that was cycling, he'd be gone for 2 years

By all accounts Osweiler played well in our 1st pre-season game, he had a nice throw for a TD to Green. Our D came up with some sacks but....our special teams got a spanking !

The Broncos dominated the game.

Os played better than I expected - a pleasant surprise and he could turn out to be a decent NFL QB.

The rookie OL held up well

The defence was dominant - and will be dominant all season

Special teams sucked - in part because Barth can't reach the end zone on kickoffs - but a lot of the issues are fixable.

Jolly Red Giant · 26-08-2015 1:02pm

The Broncos have signed FA Pro-bowler OG Evan Mathis to a one year deal with a base salary of $2.5million - Mathis could earn up to $4million with incentives. By all accounts Mathis turned down double the contract in order to sign for Denver.

This will be a major upgrade of the Broncos OL which went into the pre-season with three rookies on the left side of the OL. Mathis will replace Max Garcia at LG in the starting line-up.

HurlyBurly · 14-09-2015 3:39pm

The OL didn't look up to much last night
But the real problem now is Manning, his body is finished but unfortunately his mind doesn't see that.
No power in the throws, missing lots of targets, can't move - his attempt at a roll out was painful to watch

Jolly Red Giant · 14-09-2015 5:39pm

HurlyBurly wrote: »

The OL didn't look up to much last night
But the real problem now is Manning, his body is finished but unfortunately his mind doesn't see that.
No power in the throws, missing lots of targets, can't move - his attempt at a roll out was painful to watch

Manning doesn't have the skill set to run the WCO. The key to the WCO is being able to run the ball. For the first three quarters Manning was calling the running game. The Broncos only started having some success in the fourth quarter when they started running the ball out of the I formation. It was really only at this point that Kubiak and Dennison took control of the offence from Manning.

Despite this there are considerations. The OL had never played an NFL snap together, four of the five OL men did not play for the Broncos last season. The OL clearly have yet to grasp the basics of the ZBS, never mind the nuances of the scheme. Sanders didn't play a snap in pre-season and Manning is out of sync with the receivers.

The big problem is that Manning now crumbles at the first sign of pressure. The OL will improve and will have to improve to give Manning more time. Manning will get more comfortable the more game time he gets and the more time the OL has using the ZBS the better the running game will get taking the pressure off Manning. The main issue with Manning is that he cannot use play action to roll out and throw the ball - he is far too slow and immobile to do it. This takes away a major component of the offence. There is also a major question mark over whether he can go the season without getting injured.

But there are positives. The Broncos grinded out a win that they shouldn't have got. The D is going to be nasty and do serious damage all season - the pass rush is pretty much unstoppable the ILBs are seriously good and Talib, Harris and Roby are among the best combo of CBs in the league. Hillman looks perfect for the ZBS and while Anderson struggled, when the OL get better at ZB Anderson will become the workhorse in the running game - Anderson needs a bit of push by the OL when he can then use his power to drive through the defence.

sportzstar · 17-09-2015 11:01am

I'm calling it now, Osweiler will replace Peyton this season due to performance issues at some point.

poldebruin · 17-09-2015 8:58pm

sportzstar wrote: »

I'm calling it now, Osweiler will replace Peyton this season due to performance issues at some point.

If he wasn't benched in the playoff loss to the Colts last year, he won't be benched ever.

That said, if he were to get a nagging, persistent injury that stopped him from starting - maybe they could spin that, instead of benching Peyton Manning. The other issue with a benching, much like the leeway a first round pick gets, is it effectively calls out your GM as making a mistake in extending him out for another year - not sure how the politics of that would work.

Everyone can see how bad it looked in week 1, but there were a couple of mitigating factors, as JRG mentioned, the Offensive Line played poorly for both pass and run - that can only improve, and even if it doesn't, we won't be facing a pass rush like the Ravens have every week. It's a brand new system, and all that goes along with it. Will take time to adjust (if it is adjusted to at all) and again, should improve week on week. I don't think the slow pace of the offense suits Manning at all.

No, I'm not quite ready to call Manning done just yet, and I would love to see him bounce back over the coming weeks.

PokeHerKing · 18-09-2015 8:16am

Just watched the game there, unreal finish. 2 very unlikely looking wins but they all count!

Morrisseeee · 18-09-2015 8:45am

Defenses win superbowls

/that's my mantra for the year. You'd have to be happy with those first two wins, not playing well on offense but rocking on defense and still getting the wins. Imagine if we click on offense !

Jolly Red Giant · 18-09-2015 8:49am

Morrisseeee wrote: »

Defenses win superbowls

/that's my mantra for the year. You'd have to be happy with those first two wins, not playing well on offense but rocking on defense and still getting the wins. Imagine if we click on offense !

Defences do win SBs - but you also need the offence to put some points on the board.

I see the Broncos winning a lot of low scoring games by a single score this season.

Jolly Red Giant · 18-09-2015 8:50am

sportzstar wrote: »

I'm calling it now, Osweiler will replace Peyton this season due to performance issues at some point.

If Os replaces Manning it will be because Manning is 'hurt' - Manning will not be benched.

poldebruin · 18-09-2015 11:02pm

It was a great game to watch last night - not one for the purist, but it had plenty of drama, and reminds me of why I love to watch the sport so much. I have been slipping into the habit of watching Redzone during the early kickoff on Sunday night, but you definitely don't get anything close to the rewards of watching a game live, seeing the ebb and the flow, seeing teams and players adjust throughout the game.

I know all the talk is about Manning at the moment, and the problems Denver are having offensively, but the Defense really has a chance to be special this year, and they are such an exciting unit to watch. As a Denver fan, we have not been blessed with too many kick ass D's over the years - but we might have one this year. The pass rush is relentless, the secondary (especially the CBs) are on par with any group in the league, Safeties and Run Defense look pretty good too. All this coupled with an aggressive defensive coach in Wade Phillips and we could be in a better position to play playoff-type football late into January.

We all know Manning has been looking a bit suspect of late, but it's a case of what the team and coaches can do to get the most out of him in what might be his last year. Do they continue to try and force the Kubiak WCO onto him - which he clearly cannot execute (that bootleg rollout pass - please never call it again) or, can they swallow some pride, admit it's not going to work and let Manning go back to doing what he is comfortable with, up tempo, shotgun, spread the field, avoid dropbacks (which lead to pressure and Manning being unable to step into his throws) and then let the D take over.

The OL and running game isn't where they would want it to be, and while it may improve, it has been a major disappointment so far. really had high hopes that CJ and Kubiak could bring a little ZBS magic back to Denver.

poldebruin · 04-11-2015 1:51pm

Well we missed out on getting Joe Thomas from Cleveland at the deadline - a pity, as it was a perfect fit for us now that we are on our 3rd choice LT after Clady and Sambraillo injuries. He is a stud LT and his contact seemed doable with some manoeuvering, but glad, at the same time, that we didn't completely mortgage the future to get him (and possibly Shaq Barrett was to be part of a deal) With the new rookie pay scale in place, draft picks are more valuable than ever.

Happy also with the Vernon Davis trade - he's hasn't shown he is still the player he was a few years ago, but he's only 31 and must be seen as an upgrade at the TE position over Daniels and Green, all for relatively small price of a couple of late picks (and bearing in mind where Denver and SF are likely to finish, it's only dropping a couple of places in the round in reality) Low risk, high reward-type trade which will hopefully pay off.

fearmhor18 · 04-11-2015 5:37pm

go saints

Jolly Red Giant · 05-11-2015 10:35pm

poldebruin wrote: »

Well we missed out on getting Joe Thomas from Cleveland at the deadline - a pity, as it was a perfect fit for us now that we are on our 3rd choice LT after Clady and Sambraillo injuries. He is a stud LT and his contact seemed doable with some manoeuvering, but glad, at the same time, that we didn't completely mortgage the future to get him (and possibly Shaq Barrett was to be part of a deal) With the new rookie pay scale in place, draft picks are more valuable than ever.

The Browns were simply asking for too much. A 1 & 2 in return for Thomas and a 4.

The Broncos made a deal like that for Gary Zimmerman and, even though Thomas is good - he is no Gary Zimmerman.

No way Elway was going to sell next year's draft with Manning playing so bad.

poldebruin wrote: »

Happy also with the Vernon Davis trade - he's hasn't shown he is still the player he was a few years ago, but he's only 31 and must be seen as an upgrade at the TE position over Daniels and Green, all for relatively small price of a couple of late picks (and bearing in mind where Denver and SF are likely to finish, it's only dropping a couple of places in the round in reality) Low risk, high reward-type trade which will hopefully pay off.

Davis will allow Denver to play more 2TE sets with Green on the hip of the LT to protect Manning and Davis used as a short range receiver for Manning (Daniels has been surprisingly poor). It will assist Manning but more importantly it will open up more space for the running game.

poldebruin · 19-11-2015 2:51pm

Well we are finally going to see the start of the Osweiler era in Denver. He couldn't have asked for better preparation to start his NFL career. Drafted in the 2nd round, got to sit and learn for 3 years, and although chances in real games were few and far between, he should be completely familiar with both the speed of the game and the gameplan he will be asked to execute.

It will be so interesting to see the difference he will make to other aspects of the team. Pretty much lost in all the talk of Manning's decline was just how poorly we have been running the ball - will we see a bump in productivity now we have a QB that can take a snap from under center and run stretch and play action off that stretch? I have seen articles question Osweiler pocket awareness, but hopefully that will progress, and Kubiak now has the option to roll Osweiler out to either side of the field, which should play to his strengths.

A lot was made of the fact that the Bears are 1.5 point favourites coming into this game, which begs the question, how large would the spread have been had Manning been slated to play? Osweiler cannot possibly perform any worse than Manning has recently (please God), and there was much talk of how good the team can be if the offence could make a jump from bottom 3 in the NFL to even mid-tier NFL level.

With regard to Manning, I understand how the coaching and management's hands were tied over the course of this season so far. He had played well enough in patches to have give hope he could regain some of the form that made him an all time great, the team were winning and benching could ruin chemistry and cause locker room unrest. He could not be benched barring an injury or absolutely woeful showing or a string of losses, and in the end, we got all 3. I think they handled the entire affair perfectly to be honest. The team know that Manning was treated more than fairly, but not at the expense of giving a very talented team every chance to compete and live up to it's potential.

D9Male · 19-11-2015 8:46pm

Bang on Poldebruin. Well put.

poldebruin · 24-11-2015 2:01am

There was a lot to digest from the Bears game over the weekend starting with:

Osweiler. As good a start as we could have hoped for. The Offense definitely looked better (as in like a functioning NFL offense!) The run game benefited from having Os take snaps from under centre. Made some nice looking throws and moved well outside the pocket. It's been confirmed he will start next week vs NE and I think that gives Denver the best opportunity to win. Still only put up 17 points, but if not for tripping Hillman at the Bears one it would have been 24, and all that without a return or Defensive TD. Not bad for a first start away against a very decent Bears D.

Running Game: Looked like a different team, we were able to pound the ball and broke off some nice longer gains. Using 2 and 3 TE sets seems to be a huge benefit, and the Vernon Davis trade looks even better in this light.

Defense: I know we only gave up 15 points, but I wasn't that impressed with the D overall yesterday. I thought they would get more pressure on Cutler, and I was a bit surprised and how much time he had on a lot of throws. The secondary also gave up some inexplicable huge gains, to wide-open, relatively unknown receivers, not the lock down corners we have seen in the early part of the year. Penalties also killed us yesterday (and the Bears have not a single one in the entire game? Strange) At the end of the game, when it mattered, Cutler was able to drive the Bears easily for the TD, and we were lucky in the end not to have to go to OT.

Jolly Red Giant · 24-11-2015 8:24pm

poldebruin wrote: »

Defense: I know we only gave up 15 points, but I wasn't that impressed with the D overall yesterday. I thought they would get more pressure on Cutler, and I was a bit surprised and how much time he had on a lot of throws. The secondary also gave up some inexplicable huge gains, to wide-open, relatively unknown receivers, not the lock down corners we have seen in the early part of the year. Penalties also killed us yesterday (and the Bears have not a single one in the entire game? Strange) At the end of the game, when it mattered, Cutler was able to drive the Bears easily for the TD, and we were lucky in the end not to have to go to OT.

The officiating was terrible in this game - the officials clearly are judging based on the reputation of the Broncos D rather than what was actually happening.

I went back and looked again at the game and it is clear to see that on practically every play the Bears OL were holding the Broncos pass rushers. Even on the play when Miller stripped the ball from Cutler he had to fight through a grab by the LT on his facemask. Many of the penalties were not justified, particularly when judge by stuff the Bears were up to.

What did happen was blown coverage on a number of occasions - a couple of slips by DBs, plus a couple of mis-assignments, plus some over-aggression by Ward on a couple of occasions. But despite this Cutler threw two INTs and didn't score a TD - and that is down to the play of the D. Osweiler on his first NFL start was better than Cutler and Cutler is having a very good season. Marshall has stated that when the Bears went for the 2 pt conversion, they knew exactly what they were going to do because of the plays the Bears had already run and knew they were going to stop it.

This is a seriously good defence and they are and will have to make adjustments over the remainder of the season. A defence run by Phillips is noted for starting fast, hitting a bit of a plateau as the OCs figure out what is happening and then coming on strong again as adjustments are made to adapt to changing circumstances.

dub_skav · 25-11-2015 12:16pm

Offence looked simple, but solid. Really that is all that could be hoped for and all that was required.
People were saying all year that if Manning got to just average then the D could carry most games. Well, that was an above average performance from Oz, so if he keeps it up things might get interesting.

On the D, officiating was awful. Bennett committed PI multiple times and the only penalties called were on the DBs/LBs - that was absolutely awful officiating.
Miller and Ray were continually held, so was everybody else, but their speed made it particularly obvious.
I haven't re-watched Ward's penalty, but to me it looked like he was leading with the shoulder to finish off a tackle, but Cutler went down earlier than he expected. But, he should have pulled out of it, instead he foolishly finished his intended play even though the tackle was now complete.
There were some blown assignments in coverage, which looked dreadful, but without the fanciful PI calls and willful ignorance of holding they would have been very isolated lapses.
One final one on the refs. Oz slides (admittedly in comically clumsy fashion) - 1 mississippi - and 2 defenders hit him late, on the ground. No flag, are you kidding.

All in all, the Oz era is off to a good start and hopefully with the D getting more rest on the sidelines they can focus and get more disciplined.

eagle eye · 25-11-2015 12:48pm

Your D has deservedly earned itself a reputation for being dirty so I'd imagine the officials are watching more closely than normal and going to call every foul and lean in favour of the offensive players.

You got away with plenty earlier in the season so you've no right to moan when the officials don't call it against the other team now.

dub_skav · 25-11-2015 1:18pm

eagle eye wrote: »

Your D has deservedly earned itself a reputation for being dirty so I'd imagine the officials are watching more closely than normal and going to call every foul and lean in favour of the offensive players.

You got away with plenty earlier in the season so you've no right to moan when the officials don't call it against the other team now.

Of course we can moan; we're fans, on a football forum, giving out about officials.
It's what fans do.

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