Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2015

07-10-2015 10:20PM

Vic Vinegar wrote: »

RVP really putting the effort in...

https://twitter.com/FourFourTweet/status/651866204429242368

Wow. That's the body language of a man totally disinterested. I know it's hard to tell from just those 30 seconds of footage, but when you put this along with previous images of him sulking on the bench, it doesn't seem like RVP is enjoying his time with Fenerbache so far.

Vic Vinegar · 07-10-2015 10:54PM

stankratz wrote: »

Wow. That's the body language of a man totally disinterested. I know it's hard to tell from just those 30 seconds of footage, but when you put this along with previous images of him sulking on the bench, it doesn't seem like RVP is enjoying his time with Fenerbache so far.

Exactly, not one shyte was given there at all.

RobertKK · 07-10-2015 11:23PM

Love Bastian,also love Martial.

Martial had this to say:
“For me, they’re one of the five best clubs in the world, I knew the manager wanted me and that’s what made up my mind.”

“At first I was declared untransferable, so I thought I’d be staying there, but when I learnt about this offer, I didn’t hesitate for one second and it happened quickly. “I really wanted this move, and I especially wanted to carry on in the Champions League and that’s what made my choice.”
“It was very important to show the coach that he could trust me and play me, and by going to Manchester United, I knew they only had Rooney up front and that he preferred to play in the number 10 role, so I knew I’d get my chance and it was up to me to take it.”
“I knew I was going to be second-choice regardless of what happened, and then I got that chance against Liverpool and then the manager gave me another one against PSV.”

“Yes, he (LVG) rang me, he rang my mum who translated it all. Then when I went to Manchester, we talked some more and then it all happened quickly.”
“He’s always behind me, explaining what I’m doing right and what I’m doing wrong and I feel that’s important for a young player of my age to have the manager’s support.”

“It (the first goal he scored) did me a lot of good. And the fans, they were with me during my celebration and it was something huge for me. “Old Trafford is impressive. They have an average of about 75,000 fans. It’s a big chance from the Stade Louis-II, and it’s really magical for me. It’s always nice that there’s so many people and that they’re there to support me and that’s what makes footballers want to play each game.”
“As soon as I went to warm up, all the fans stood up and clapped me. I found that really nice because they didn’t know me but they showed me a lot of support. I feel that’s what allowed me to be ready.”

IamtheWalrus · 08-10-2015 07:43AM

RobertKK wrote: »

Love Bastian,also love Martial.

Martial had this to say:
“For me, they’re one of the five best clubs in the world, I knew the manager wanted me and that’s what made up my mind.”

“At first I was declared untransferable, so I thought I’d be staying there, but when I learnt about this offer, I didn’t hesitate for one second and it happened quickly. “I really wanted this move, and I especially wanted to carry on in the Champions League and that’s what made my choice.”
“It was very important to show the coach that he could trust me and play me, and by going to Manchester United, I knew they only had Rooney up front and that he preferred to play in the number 10 role, so I knew I’d get my chance and it was up to me to take it.”
“I knew I was going to be second-choice regardless of what happened, and then I got that chance against Liverpool and then the manager gave me another one against PSV.”

“Yes, he (LVG) rang me, he rang my mum who translated it all. Then when I went to Manchester, we talked some more and then it all happened quickly.”
“He’s always behind me, explaining what I’m doing right and what I’m doing wrong and I feel that’s important for a young player of my age to have the manager’s support.”

“It (the first goal he scored) did me a lot of good. And the fans, they were with me during my celebration and it was something huge for me. “Old Trafford is impressive. They have an average of about 75,000 fans. It’s a big chance from the Stade Louis-II, and it’s really magical for me. It’s always nice that there’s so many people and that they’re there to support me and that’s what makes footballers want to play each game.”
“As soon as I went to warm up, all the fans stood up and clapped me. I found that really nice because they didn’t know me but they showed me a lot of support. I feel that’s what allowed me to be ready.”

Level-headed. He's a keeper.

StringerBell · 08-10-2015 07:44AM

da gamer wrote: »

More than you expect obviously. Do you honestly think a club like utd would employ someone to 'whisper into lvgs ear'? Do you think giggs is sent home after matchday and told see you next Saturday giggsy? I'm not privy to what goes on behind the scenes of Manchester Utd but I'd be pretty sure that the assistant manager of the club is at least asked what their opinion is from time to time.

Having someone with the connection to a club that Giggs has an one of his assistants is something Van Gaal does everywhere he goes. Its not to say Giggs does nothing but whisper in the managers ear for 90 minutes of course. Hs role, as defined by Van Gaal in various comments seems to be the link between he and the players, advice on all things to do with the identity of the club and to scout the opposition and break down their strengths and weaknesses at match preparation.

Van Gaal also refers to Albert Stuivenberg as his assistant, he is certainly viewed to be on the same level as Giggs (if not higher since Van Gaal actually takes him with him when he takes a job) should he be in the running for the next United manager? Bout would also work very closely with Giggs since opposition scouting is his main area of expertise.

ericzeking · 08-10-2015 07:45AM

The main problem with those images of van Persie is that his behaviour is directly affecting his team mates preparation which is not cool.

LVG clearly had no problem getting rid as he knew what the reaction would be to being mostly on the bench.

Liam McPoyle · 08-10-2015 07:50AM

ericzeking wrote: »

The main problem with those images of van Persie is that his behaviour is directly affecting his team mates preparation which is not cool.

LVG clearly had no problem getting rid as he knew what the reaction would be to being mostly on the bench.

At this stage I'd much rather a sulky RVP than a terrible Rooney.

brinty · 08-10-2015 07:51AM

Business Cat wrote: »

At this stage I'd much rather a sulky RVP than a terrible Rooney.

Too bloody right mate...

dr.kenneth noisewater · 08-10-2015 08:43AM

bangkok wrote: »

I said mclaren managed at the highest level and it doesn't get much bigger than the England job. It along with Brazil and probably regarded as the most high pressure international jobs in world football.

He also won the league in Holland which was a big feat

Back tracking again I see

RobertKK · 08-10-2015 08:49AM

Business Cat wrote: »

At this stage I'd much rather a sulky RVP than a terrible Rooney.

brinty wrote: »

Too bloody right mate...

We are doing better with a terrible Rooney, than what we were when we had a sulky RVP.
If we had RVP, it is likely Martial wouldn't have got all the game time and maybe he wouldn't have signed if he thought he wouldn't get the game time compared to what he was getting at Monaco.
AM clearly stated that he only saw Rooney as the player he was up against and knew he could get a starting spot if he delivered.

We are well rid of RVP, just a pity Muller was not available to go with Martial.

bucketybuck · 08-10-2015 09:00AM

RobertKK wrote: »

We are doing better with a terrible Rooney, than what we were when we had a sulky RVP.
If we had RVP, it is likely Martial wouldn't have got all the game time and maybe he wouldn't have signed if he thought he wouldn't get the game time compared to what he was getting at Monaco.
AM clearly stated that he only saw Rooney as the player he was up against and knew he could get a starting spot if he delivered.

We are well rid of RVP, just a pity Muller was not available to go with Martial.

At some point we are going to actively want to take Martial out of the line up, whether because his performances drop or simply because of tiredness. This is inevitable, you just have to look at how players like Silva and Di Maria started well but faded badly in their first season, and they were seasoned pros compared to the 19 year old Martial.

I'm glad the kid has started well but we are fooling ourselves to think he will maintain that all season, he really needs to be managed properly to ensure he develops properly and a big part of that is knowing when to take him out of the firing line for a while. Having somebody able to step in would sure be helpful there.

bangkok · 08-10-2015 09:06AM

http://www.joe.ie/sport/david-beckham-has-tried-to-reunite-these-two-men-for-charity/514771

pity it didn't happen

bangkok · 08-10-2015 09:13AM

http://www.sportsjoe.ie/football/video-cristiano-ronaldos-touching-tale-about-fergies-kindness-when-his-father-was-in-a-coma/43189

stuff like this makes you miss both fergie and Ronaldo. Fergie was a genius at man management

RobertKK · 08-10-2015 09:22AM

bucketybuck wrote: »

At some point we are going to actively want to take Martial out of the line up, whether because his performances drop or simply because of tiredness. This is inevitable, you just have to look at how players like Silva and Di Maria started well but faded badly in their first season, and they were seasoned pros compared to the 19 year old Martial.

I'm glad the kid has started well but we are fooling ourselves to think he will maintain that all season, he really needs to be managed properly to ensure he develops properly and a big part of that is knowing when to take him out of the firing line for a while. Having somebody able to step in would sure be helpful there.

I will use Muller whom we tried to sign and who was a player under Van Gaal.
He recently turned 26 years of age.

At 2009/10 season and he played 53 games.
2010/11 he played 48 games
2011/12 and it was 53 games.

Last year Martial played 48 games for Monaco.

Nalz · 08-10-2015 09:29AM

Business Cat wrote: »

At this stage I'd much rather a sulky RVP than a terrible Rooney.

You wouldn't want either...Rooney has hit a very bad patch but I've a feeling there's no turning back for RVP.

homerjay2005 · 08-10-2015 09:30AM

bangkok wrote: »

. Fergie was a genius at man management

given whats happened since he left or more to the point how average and out of touch his players have been, it looks like man management was his greatest characteristic.

its amazing what can be achieved when players are 100% behind the manager and playing for each other.

bangkok · 08-10-2015 09:32AM

homerjay2005 wrote: »

given whats happened since he left or more to the point how average and out of touch his players have been, it looks like man management was his greatest characteristic.

its amazing what can be achieved when players are 100% behind the manager and playing for each other.

also when they are given the trust of the manager to go out and express themselves something I think van Gaal is not allowing our players to do.

bucketybuck · 08-10-2015 09:35AM

RobertKK wrote: »

I will use Muller whom we tried to sign and who was a player under Van Gaal.
He recently turned 26 years of age.

At 2009/10 season and he played 53 games.
2010/11 he played 48 games
2011/12 and it was 53 games.

Last year Martial played 48 games for Monaco.

Ok then. You think Martial could and should play 48 games this season.

I disagree, I don't think thats the best thing for his development, especially if he follows the path of the many, many imports to the premier league that started well but then struggled later in their first season.

08-10-2015 10:32AM

bucketybuck wrote: »

Ok then. You think Martial could and should play 48 games this season.

I disagree, I don't think thats the best thing for his development, especially if he follows the path of the many, many imports to the premier league that started well but then struggled later in their first season.

In basketball there is something called the "rookie wall" where a young player will look great for half a season and will slow down towards the end. Teams nearly always stick with them through this period, maybe to do with needs but one of the qualities you want to instill in a young player is the confidence in their ability to play themselves back into form. You can see it constantly in Rooney's career when he was young that he would come back from injury in awful form and play badly for 5 odd weeks and be back to his best after that. Leaving them out helps nobody.

bucketybuck · 08-10-2015 10:43AM

Liam O wrote: »

In basketball there is something called the "rookie wall" where a young player will look great for half a season and will slow down towards the end. Teams nearly always stick with them through this period, maybe to do with needs but one of the qualities you want to instill in a young player is the confidence in their ability to play themselves back into form. You can see it constantly in Rooney's career when he was young that he would come back from injury in awful form and play badly for 5 odd weeks and be back to his best after that. Leaving them out helps nobody.

But I'm not even talking about taking Martial out when his form drops, I'm taking about managing him now to ensure he doesn't hit the rookie wall later. Rotate him here and there to ensure he doesn't go those ten games without scoring and before it ever becomes a noticeable thing. Rotate him now and the media won't ever start reporting him as being dropped, because sitting out a game is something that he does regularly as is normal for a 19 year old.

I'm not saying drop him for the 2nd half of the season, but Fergie for example had a long standing tendency to take young lads out of the team for a few games to take the limelight off for a while. He did it with Ronaldo, De Gea and plenty of other less famous players, and in my opinion it is always the right thing to do.

StringerBell · 08-10-2015 11:55AM

Fergie and Van Gaal share a lot of traits about man management really, both see the human being as well as the player, and can be incredibly compassionate in some situations, other times they can both be extremely ruthless and freeze players out when they cross them/have no use to them.

Who was the better man manager? For my money its Fergie of course, but could be biased I guess having gotten to witness him up close for so long.

RobertKK · 08-10-2015 12:01PM

bucketybuck wrote: »

Ok then. You think Martial could and should play 48 games this season.

I disagree, I don't think thats the best thing for his development, especially if he follows the path of the many, many imports to the premier league that started well but then struggled later in their first season.

Personally I would United to be comfortable in games and winning well by half time and then at about 60 minutes bring him off.

Van Gaal is under pressure to deliver, the most significant game of his United career was the MK Dons game where he thought he could rotate and get a result, instead I think Van Gaal would rank that performance as embarrassing and it was like he purged most of that team so he could forget about them and move on.
Van Gaal will not be taking the risk this year of a repeat of that game, he showed great respect to Ipswich with a very strong team, and I don't see him doing anything else as he tries to win a trophy.
That means Martial is vital, and now he is probably already in our top 3 most important players - along with De Gea and Smalling.

The interesting about Martial last season if you look at his stats, his first half of the season was not alight with goals, but he got much better in the second half of the season when it came to scoring.
I will go back to Muller and say Martial has this in common with him - very grounded individuals, don't seem to let pressure affect them, dynamic on the field with a calm presence.
Then both players will now have had Van Gaal for this stage of their career, and he is one of the best around for dealing with highly talented young players and getting the most out of them.
I wouldn't worry about Martial, last season he said he was not happy half way through the season at how he was performing and worked hard to improve, then he went on a scoring blitz.
He has it all for me - highly talented, great determination and most important is he has no notions about himself.
Nothing worse than a player who has a notion of himself being better than he is, where as Martial said he knew if he performed when he arrived he would getting a starting spot. He didn't assume he would automatically be given a starting spot.
I just think if you put everything together, there is not a need to worry.

tl/dr
Martial has the right attitude.
Martial has the correct manager for this stage of his career.

RobertKK · 08-10-2015 12:04PM

StringerBell wrote: »

Fergie and Van Gaal share a lot of traits about man management really, both see the human being as well as the player, and can be incredibly compassionate in some situations, other times they can both be extremely ruthless and freeze players out when they cross them/have no use to them.

Who was the better man manager? For my money its Fergie of course, but could be biased I guess having gotten to witness him up close for so long.

I think it is very close.
Fergie winning a European trophy with Aberdeen is something we won't be seeing Aberdeen doing again.
It is hard to see where currently Van Gaal's record of winning with the youngest team ever in the CL is going to be broken.

08-10-2015 12:12PM

RobertKK wrote: »

I think it is very close.
Fergie winning a European trophy with Aberdeen is something we won't be seeing Aberdeen doing again.
It is hard to see where currently Van Gaal's record of winning with the youngest team ever in the CL is going to be broken.

I wouldn't call it close at all. Fergie miles ahead.

StringerBell · 08-10-2015 12:13PM

Liam O wrote: »

I wouldn't call it close at all. Fergie miles ahead.

In terms of man management I would probably have called it close also tbh

They are quite similar in that regard

ericzeking · 08-10-2015 12:15PM

StringerBell wrote: »

Fergie and Van Gaal share a lot of traits about man management really, both see the human being as well as the player, and can be incredibly compassionate in some situations, other times they can both be extremely ruthless and freeze players out when they cross them/have no use to them.

Who was the better man manager? For my money its Fergie of course, but could be biased I guess having gotten to witness him up close for so long.

Mike? Is that you?

StringerBell · 08-10-2015 12:19PM

Rumbled!

ericzeking · 08-10-2015 12:22PM

Absolutely Martial will need a well timed break...RVP was not the player to provide the backup in this instance though as is plainly obvious from his reaction to not being an automatic starter in Turkey.

If we need to take him out for a game or two we can play Rooney, Wilson or Depay in the number 9 role.

Rayne Wooney · 08-10-2015 12:23PM

Been a while if ever since there's been 5 world class managers in the PL, going to get very competitive

Will be interesting to see how long it takes Klopp to implement his philosophy considering Van Gaal seems to still be doing so, if he hits the ground running there will be a few eyebrows raised

08-10-2015 01:03PM

ericzeking wrote: »

Absolutely Martial will need a well timed break...RVP was not the player to provide the backup in this instance though as is plainly obvious from his reaction to not being an automatic starter in Turkey.

If we need to take him out for a game or two we can play Rooney, Wilson or Depay in the number 9 role.

I would like to see Wilson get a chance regardless. I know people are critical of what he has done in his games so far but I feel he has something about him that could make him a top player if he got the chance. Pereira too. Doubtful they are going to get thrown in at the deep end but I wouldn't be against them getting the odd start over the likes of Depay, Mata (who would be moved to the 10) and Rooney.

Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2015

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