Summer 2015 Transfer Window General Discussion

CSF · 27-08-2015 09:53PM

glued wrote: »

He's going to be a top class centre half. He should stay at Everton for another season. He'll go for bonkers money next year. He's about as close to Rio Ferdinand as you'll get when Rio was 21/22.

I really don't see the same level of potential there myself. Ferdinand oozed class, but I don't see that with Stones. He doesn't strike me as someone who will ever be able to go toe to toe with the real elite teams in Europe but we will see.

Andersonisgod · 27-08-2015 10:08PM

I'd say including Everton games and England under 21 and senior England games I've seen him play about 15 games so it's not exactly an ideal sample size to get the best assessment of him. All I can comment on is what I have seen and whenever I have seen him play he's been outstanding. Very few centre backs look so comfortable striding out from the back on the ball, let alone Englis centre backs, he's quick across the ground, he deals well with 1 vs 1 situations and he's strong in the air too. It's not tough to see why an English club is going to pay this amount of money for him, is it exorbitant? It's tough to say, in the modern game when compared to many other transfer fees I don't believe it is. He could be the long term solution in the heart of the Chelsea defence, and the prospect of a Courtois/Zouma/Stones triangle is mouthwatering.

eh i dunno · 27-08-2015 10:13PM

CSF wrote: »

I really don't see the same level of potential there myself. Ferdinand oozed class, but I don't see that with Stones. He doesn't strike me as someone who will ever be able to go toe to toe with the real elite teams in Europe but we will see.

I've pretty much watched every game stones has played for Everton and the lad is outstanding. Will definitely be one of the best defenders in Europe. Are you a Liverpool fan?

Beefy78 · 27-08-2015 10:16PM

I know an Everton season ticket holder who says that Stones is the best ball-playing centre-half he has ever seen at Everton and he genuinely thinks that he has the potential to be one of the best defenders of his generation. He is obviously massively biased of course.

To me he looks streets ahead of Rio Ferdinand at that same age (when Rio was more experienced but was still making a lot of big mistakes). If he went to Chelsea is it that difficult to see him ahead of Gary Cahill in the side? Cahill has a lot more question marks over him than Stones does, for me.

Beefy78 · 27-08-2015 10:19PM

CSF wrote: »

I really don't see the same level of potential there myself. Ferdinand oozed class, but I don't see that with Stones. He doesn't strike me as someone who will ever be able to go toe to toe with the real elite teams in Europe but we will see.

Ferdinand had that 'something' about him as soon as he broke through at West Ham which made you just know he would be a star. But he was also massively error-prone until his mid-20s. Stones is much more solid today even if I've not yet seen the potential in him that Ferdinand obviously had.

glued · 27-08-2015 10:23PM

Beefy78 wrote: »

I know an Everton season ticket holder who says that Stones is the best ball-playing centre-half he has ever seen at Everton and he genuinely thinks that he has the potential to be one of the best defenders of his generation. He is obviously massively biased of course.

To me he looks streets ahead of Rio Ferdinand at that same age (when Rio was more experienced but was still making a lot of big mistakes). If he went to Chelsea is it that difficult to see him ahead of Gary Cahill in the side? Cahill has a lot more question marks over him than Stones does, for me.

That's a bit of a jump tbh. Stones looks good but he's still not as rounded as Ferdinand was at that age. Comparing the two Rio was a better defender and he was more comfortable on the ball. Stones is as much in that mould as you can get but I don't think he'll make it to that Terry/Ferdinand class of English centre halves. He's still raw in many aspects of his game and would be punished more at Chelsea for his tendency to carry the ball out but he will make an excellent centre back but he still needs to stay at Everton for at least another season.

Skylinehead · 27-08-2015 10:27PM

Magico Gonzalez wrote: »

Seems like Stones did everything right, maybe a transfer request should actually mean something.

It's a request, not an order. As such, the club are entitled to say "no".

Beefy78 · 27-08-2015 10:46PM

glued wrote: »

That's a bit of a jump tbh. Stones looks good but he's still not as rounded as Ferdinand was at that age. Comparing the two Rio was a better defender and he was more comfortable on the ball. Stones is as much in that mould as you can get but I don't think he'll make it to that Terry/Ferdinand class of English centre halves. He's still raw in many aspects of his game and would be punished more at Chelsea for his tendency to carry the ball out but he will make an excellent centre back but he still needs to stay at Everton for at least another season.

Rio was possibly more rounded and he was certainly more comfortable on the ball. Was he a better defender when he was Stones' current age? I don't think so. Stones has just turned 21. At that stage Rio was still six months away from his Leeds move. He was far from the player he turned out to be.

I don't think John Stones has that same potential, to be honest. Being English I obviously hope I'm wrong.

I guess what I'm saying is that if I have a match tomorrow and can pick 21 year old John Stones or 21 year old Rio Ferdinand at the back then I'm picking Stones. If I have £40m to spend on one of them though I'm still picking Rio.

CSF · 27-08-2015 10:47PM

eh i dunno wrote: »

I've pretty much watched every game stones has played for Everton and the lad is outstanding. Will definitely be one of the best defenders in Europe. Are you a Liverpool fan?

I'm not, and I watch 90% of Premier League televised games too. Chap looks grand, comfortable on the ball and all, but I don't see him reaching the heights of a John Terry, Sol Campbell, Rio Ferdinand. Honestly think that if he goes onto emulate Jagielka's career he'll have done well for himself.

Corholio · 27-08-2015 11:04PM

I think Stones is a fine defender, he's very comfortable on the ball and seems very natural there. I don't think it's that comparitive with Rio yet though, I think people forget how good Rio was because he sort of faded out at the end. When Stones is playing regularly in Europe too I think a fairer comparison can be made. A lot has been said about whether the fee is exorbitant, and to be honest I still think it is. It seems more and more the period of time to judge quality players and mentally measure the level they should be playing is getting shorter and shorter. It reminds me of early 2000's Italian football, when players (mostly strikers) would have a very good season with a mid table or lower standard club and Milan, Inter, Lazio etc etc used to buy them, and mostly they didn't end up working out. I still think there's a lot to be said for playing regularly and continuing in an atmosphere a player is used to, at least short term.

I think Stones will be a success (when he goes there) at Chelsea, but it'll be interesting to see if it'd be blunted a bit by playing time etc.

Paully D · 27-08-2015 11:18PM

Iused2likebusts wrote: »

Joey Barton to burnley

No matter who Joseph is linked to, there's always a tweet to dig up:

https://twitter.com/Joey7Barton/status/462920540974755840?lang=en

https://twitter.com/Joey7Barton/status/462920193594105856?lang=en

https://twitter.com/Joey7Barton/status/462917587207487488?lang=en

Kiith · 28-08-2015 09:31AM

https://twitter.com/SpursOfficial/status/637187983255408640

Knex* · 28-08-2015 09:39AM

Really interested to see how he fairs in the PL, tbh. He could be very good for Spurs.

Harry Palmr · 28-08-2015 10:08AM

Last summer I was banging the drum for Son to join Liverpool, I think he'll do well.

Paully D · 28-08-2015 10:53AM

Ola Toivonen has joined Sunderland on loan. He has worked with Advocaat before at PSV and I believe he commented before how well Toivonen and Lens used to link up with Toivonen in the central creative role and Lens a wide forward.

I haven't seen much of him though. Can anyone tell me how disappointed I'm going to end up being with this one then? :pac:

ScummyMan · 28-08-2015 11:05AM

Is KDB that good? Massive amounts of money City are throwing at Wolfsburg for him, is he the real deal?

CSF · 28-08-2015 11:13AM

ScummyMan wrote: »

Is KDB that good? Massive amounts of money City are throwing at Wolfsburg for him, is he the real deal?

Bundesliga form says yes, spell in England with Chelsea says no. You could find arguments to say that either one is more relevant so it'll be interesting to see how he fares if that transfer happens.

28-08-2015 11:21AM

CSF wrote: »

Bundesliga form says yes, spell in England with Chelsea says no. You could find arguments to say that either one is more relevant so it'll be interesting to see how he fares if that transfer happens.

He made 3 PL appearances, all probably from the bench. I don't think you can draw any conclusions from his time in England.

CSF · 28-08-2015 11:29AM

AdamD wrote: »

He made 3 PL appearances, all probably from the bench. I don't think you can draw any conclusions from his time in England.

I think we can draw the conclusion that he did not make the grade at Chelsea only 2 years ago. There are the arguments for the other side too (which I've pointed out) but those are the facts at the same time.

28-08-2015 11:37AM

Well I wouldn't be drawing that conclusion as its pretty clear that Mourinho has chosen to keep inferior players who suit his style of play and there have been a number of players in recent seasons who didn't get genuine chances with him. Willian has 'made the grade' at Chelsea but I doubt anyone would have him over KDB. If I was to judge him I wouldn't even bother considering his time at Chelsea. Matter of opinions I suppose.

CSF · 28-08-2015 11:44AM

AdamD wrote: »

Well I wouldn't be drawing that conclusion as its pretty clear that Mourinho has chosen to keep inferior players who suit his style of play and there have been a number of players in recent seasons who didn't get genuine chances with him. Willian has 'made the grade' at Chelsea but I doubt anyone would have him over KDB. If I was to judge him I wouldn't even bother considering his time at Chelsea. Matter of opinions I suppose.

No, no. That is exactly the conclusion to draw. That is what happened.

You've arguments as to why and I accept and agree with most of them, but that still doesn't change the fact that he did not make the grade at Chelsea just 2 years ago.

His form at Wolfsburg last year was immense but that has to be a niggling doubt all the same. Would David Silva make the grade at Chelsea? Absolutely.

rob316 · 28-08-2015 11:53AM

Good signing for Spurs, He's not very prolific about 1 in 3 at best but hes a very versatile intelligent attacking player from what I have seen.

28-08-2015 11:57AM

CSF wrote: »

No, no. That is exactly the conclusion to draw. That is what happened.

You've arguments as to why and I accept and agree with most of them, but that still doesn't change the fact that he did not make the grade at Chelsea just 2 years ago.

His form at Wolfsburg last year was immense but that has to be a niggling doubt all the same. Would David Silva make the grade at Chelsea? Absolutely.

Would Juan Mata?

Trond · 28-08-2015 11:58AM

AdamD wrote: »

Would Juan Mata?

In a word yes!

28-08-2015 11:59AM

AdamD wrote: »

Would Juan Mata?

Not good enough for Chelsea.

Mourinhio was proven right too

snowblind · 28-08-2015 12:01PM

CSF wrote: »

No, no. That is exactly the conclusion to draw. That is what happened.

You've arguments as to why and I accept and agree with most of them, but that still doesn't change the fact that he did not make the grade at Chelsea just 2 years ago.

His form at Wolfsburg last year was immense but that has to be a niggling doubt all the same. Would David Silva make the grade at Chelsea? Absolutely.

Managers don't always make the best decisions, shocking as it may sound. Pirlo was dropped by AC Milan and he was a MONSTER when he joined Juventus the next season for free. Same league, and they knew the guy extremely well. Pogba in ManU - didn't get a proper chance under Ferguson, exploded the next season in Juve. There are tons of examples.

28-08-2015 12:03PM

rarnes1 wrote: »

Not good enough for Chelsea.

Mourinhio was proven right too

Hahaha, this is starting again is it?

CSF · 28-08-2015 12:04PM

AdamD wrote: »

Would Juan Mata?

Juan Mata was a 2 time player of the year for Chelsea. Regardless of how it ended, you couldn't say he 'didn't make the grade'. Mourinho just decided to cash in and go a different way. De Bruyne completely did not make the grade. Just looked there and he played 132 minutes for Chelsea so Mata comparisons aren't right there.

CSF · 28-08-2015 12:06PM

snowblind wrote: »

Managers don't always make the best decisions, shocking as it may sound. Pirlo was dropped by AC Milan and he was a MONSTER when he joined Juventus the next season for free. Same league, and they knew the guy extremely well. Pogba in ManU - didn't get a proper chance under Ferguson, exploded the next season in Juve. There are tons of examples.

Of course they do. I would never suggest otherwise. But there are far more cases of managers getting it right, so I think it remains a decent-sized doubt given the price being discussed, despite how well he did at Wolfsburg last year.

Trond · 28-08-2015 12:08PM

rarnes1 wrote: »

Not good enough for Chelsea.

Mourinhio was proven right too

Nonsense. He was their player of the year not so long ago. He didn't fit into Mourinhio system. Hes in the Top 5 in Europe for assists in the last 5/6 seasons.

Summer 2015 Transfer Window General Discussion

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