Is the Western World anti-man?

Kev W · 19-08-2015 03:28PM

Iseedeadpixels wrote: »

Ive had Women before say "haha I would rape ye" Could you imagine if I said that! Thats my problem with feminism is the little bits of hypocrisy and the fact they never seem to give a sh!t about what happens to Women in war torn Africa and are more concerned with small trivial things that the Women in Africa would love to have.

Did those women identify themselves as feminists?
Your notion that feminists don't care about women in Africa is ridiculous.
You literally only have to Google "Africa feminist" to disprove it.

Iseedeadpixels · 19-08-2015 03:28PM

Jesus lads and ladies I'm behind in work because of you all

I'll be back for a good read, keep me entertained!!

smash · 19-08-2015 03:28PM

Iseedeadpixels wrote: »

Ive had Women before say "haha I would rape ye" Could you imagine if I said that! Thats my problem with feminism

Ah come on... I often say I could murder an Indian but everyone knows that I'm not going to go on a racist killing spree.

sunshine and showers · 19-08-2015 03:29PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

But obviously it isn't equally as bad, because legally a woman cannot rape a man.

Actually, she can - just not through traditional sexual intercourse. Then it's sexual assault. See rape a defined under Section 4 Criminal Law (Rape) (Amendment) Act, 1990.

There may be an issue around terminology ("rape" is only vaginal penetration by a penis unless it's a different charge of "rape under Section 4"). That's not to say a man cannot be sexually assaulted by a woman. You're using the semantics to make it seem like it isn't an offence under law for a woman to take unwanted sexual advantage of a man - it very much is one.

Iseedeadpixels · 19-08-2015 03:29PM

Kev W wrote: »

Did those women identify themselves as feminists?
Your notion that feminists don't care about women in Africa is ridiculous.

1st part actually yes they did.

2nd part Ok I should have said from the feminists I have dealt with, I stand corrected, obviously a feminist like yourself who has a good bit of intelligence would.

jaja321 · 19-08-2015 03:29PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

See, you can twist words as you want, but they said that it is equally as bad. However, if it was equal, then surely there would be equal punishments.

Therefore, it is not equally as bad.

I think you asked her for her opinion. Which she gave.

Jesus f***ing Chr*st but this thread is so full of bullsh*t

Iseedeadpixels · 19-08-2015 03:30PM

smash wrote: »

Ah come on... I often say I could murder an Indian but everyone knows that I'm not going to go on a racist killing spree.

But you're talking about a Indian dish not a Indian person am I correct?

RWCNT · 19-08-2015 03:31PM

orubiru wrote: »

When you say "rape culture" what do you mean, specifically?

Would you be willing to accept that the phrase is somewhat over-dramatic in terms of what it actually describes when compared to what it appears to mean on the surface?

People have been murdered in Ireland. We definitely blame murder victims from time to time and people make jokes about murder all the time. I'd say folks are WAY more flippant about murder than they are about rape.

If you found me telling a group of Spanish or French kids that "Ireland is a Murder Culture" would you not be even slightly tempted to step in and call me out on that kind of bullsh!t?

The phrase "Rape Culture" appears to describe a culture that accepts, condones and possibly even encourages rape.

Are you saying that there is another definition?

Don't you think it's a little dishonest to use the phrase "Rape Culture"? I am thinking that what you probably mean is that we live in a country where the nature of the justice system makes it such that proving guilt for some crimes, like rape, can be extremely difficult.

So what is the alternative? We should live in a culture where people are punished for whatever crimes they are accused of? Unless they can prove innocence? Or should we have one system for when guilt is easily proven and a secondary system for when it is too difficult to prove guilt?

Now, this is why we have "victim blaming" (another dishonest phrase in my opinion). If there is a crime that can be committed against you and you have almost no chance of proving that you were a victim of this crime then is it not advisable to take precautionary measures to ensure that you do not become a victim? Where do you draw the line between "victim blaming" and "learning to survive by observing the actions of others"?

Yes, there should be some form of "teach men not to rape" though maybe not using such dishonest, confrontational, and inflammatory language.

It is ludicrous to say that because it is difficult to prove guilt in rape cases and because we try to advise women how to protect themselves from becoming victims that we somehow live in a Rape Culture.

Explain yourself.

My definition of rape culture would be ideas and behaviours which serve to normalise rape, I've never really read up on it and it does appear that my definition is somewhat at odds with the popular meaning. I wouldn't say that rape is considered normal in Ireland or where I live in the UK.

19-08-2015 03:31PM

jaja321 wrote: »

I think you asked her for her opinion. Which she gave.

Jesus f***ing Chr*st but this thread is so full of bullsh*t

Isn't it funny that when men speak out about issues affecting their gender and sexism they encounter, it's called bullsh*t?

Stay classy.

Kev W · 19-08-2015 03:32PM

Iseedeadpixels wrote: »

1st part actually yes they did.

2nd part Ok I should have said from the feminists I have dealt with, I stand corrected, obviously a feminist like yourself who has a good bit of intelligence would.

1st part OK they were bad feminists.
2nd part quite right.

Get back to work.

kinsy · 19-08-2015 03:33PM

Iseedeadpixels wrote: »

Ive had Women before say "haha I would rape ye" Could you imagine if I said that! Thats my problem with feminism is the little bits of hypocrisy and the fact they never seem to give a sh!t about what happens to Women in war torn Africa and are more concerned with small trivial things that the Women in Africa would love to have.

Maybe the women who say that aren't feminists. Not all women are.

Think both genders are guilty of putting trivial things ahead of people in war torn countries tbh. I don't see that as making someone 'not feminist'.
I care what happens to Women in Africa but no, I don't make it my life's work to change things for them.

jaja321 · 19-08-2015 03:33PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Isn't it funny that when men speak out about issues affecting their gender and sexism they encounter, it's called bullsh*t?

Stay classy.

If that's what you think I said, then off with you.

Kev W · 19-08-2015 03:33PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Isn't it funny that when men speak out about issues affecting their gender and sexism they encounter, it's called bullsh*t?

Stay classy.

Isn't it funny how you assume the bull**** in question was you?

Blue steel!

zeffabelli · 19-08-2015 03:33PM

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Can I ask what this last one is all about? Seriously, it utterly baffles me on so many levels... Surely if you're friends with someone and they're happy, you don't want to make them unhappy about something which happened in the past and cannot be changed? Like, if I'm not traumatised about something, that's a good thing. You may think I should be traumatised, but trauma is an incredibly unpleasant thing to go through, so surely you're an utterly sh!tty friend if you "convince" me to be traumatised because my lack of trauma doesn't suit your world view?

I dunno, it's just something which has always seemed puzzling to me. It's like when that girl with down's syndrome had her photo circulated as a meme by a bunch of total assholes who were making fun of her. Her parents found out about it and told her, then explained why it was so horrible. They posed for news articles and what not.

Now it's fair enough being outraged, but if the daughter was herself oblivious and hadn't come across the photos herself (and might not even have recognised that it was her, given that it was a toddler photo and she was now 16), why upset her by showing them to her? That's manufacturing unhappiness which doesn't need to exist.

Just my two cents anyway. I question what the word "friend" means to someone who talks someone else out of happiness and into being upset about something which initially didn't bother them.

Yeah it is an odd one but it happens.

I've seen feminists try to convince women that men they've been married to for 30 years are potential rapists.

I've seen stupid clumsy ignorant juvenile experiments tried to be ideogically converted in to attempted rape, by yes your friends, friends who think they are looking out for you.

The memory wars in the 1990s ruined lives, and it was a direct product of this victim glorification, Freudians, and confessional television.

Iseedeadpixels · 19-08-2015 03:33PM

Kev W wrote: »

1st part OK they were bad feminists.
2nd part quite right.

Get back to work.

I'm feckin trying I had to call a client and I mixed up his fore and surname

boards.ie wins this round

19-08-2015 03:35PM

Kev W wrote: »

Isn't it funny how you assume the bull**** in question was you?

Blue steel!

No assumptions were made, which is why I didn't say it directly about myself, but instead about men.

You love twisting people's words, Kev W. I've seen you do it countless times.

The Corinthian · 19-08-2015 03:35PM

sunshine and showers wrote: »

Actually, she can - just not through traditional sexual intercourse. Then it's sexual assault. See rape a defined under Section 4 Criminal Law (Rape) (Amendment) Act, 1990.

Care to tell us what the maximum punishment for rape is, under law, then the maximum punishment for sexual assault, then let us know how equal this is that one gender is legally immune from such punishment.

sunshine and showers · 19-08-2015 03:36PM

Key problem with this thread, and possibly in general society: none of us seem to actually know what feminism is. :rolleyes:

Those "feminists" who say they hate men or mock men's issues? Yeah, they're not actually feminists.

The term has been damaged, seemingly beyond repair. By men AND women.

Iseedeadpixels · 19-08-2015 03:36PM

sunshine and showers wrote: »

Key problem with this thread, and possibly in general society: none of us seem to actually know what feminism is. :rolleyes:

Those "feminists" who say they hate men or mock men's issues? Yeah, they're not actually feminists.

The term has been damaged, seemingly beyond repair. By men AND women.

You win end thread.

Carlos Orange · 19-08-2015 03:37PM

sunshine and showers wrote: »

Those "feminists" who say they hate men or mock men's issues? Yeah, they're not actually feminists.

When you are finished with that fallacy you might want to hand it back to the closest Scotsman.

19-08-2015 03:38PM

sunshine and showers wrote: »

Key problem with this thread, and possibly in general society: none of us seem to actually know what feminism is. :rolleyes:

Those "feminists" who say they hate men or mock men's issues? Yeah, they're not actually feminists.

The term has been damaged, seemingly beyond repair. By men AND women.

The key problem is that feminism was introduced into the discussion at all. Initially it was about the problems that men face, but turned into something completely different. I have no issue with feminism or women advancing further than me - in fact, I've encouraged it numerous times. But I've always believed that one person shouldn't be granted privilege over someone else. Whether they be men or women.

sunshine and showers · 19-08-2015 03:41PM

The Corinthian wrote: »

Care to tell us what the maximum punishment for rape is, under law, then the maximum punishment for sexual assault, then let us know how equal this is that one gender is legally immune from such punishment.

The maximum punishment for Rape (male only offence) and Rape Under Section 4 (gender neutral offence) is life imprisonment. For sexual assault it's ten years.

Again, women CAN be guilty of rape so no, one gender is not legally immune from punishment.

Also, I'd just like to point out that

A) I didn't make these laws, nor did I say I agree with them, so if you guys would stop with the blaming tone that'd be great

These laws were made years ago by parliaments full of men. It's not a female agenda against you.

sunshine and showers · 19-08-2015 03:43PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

The key problem is that feminism was introduced into the discussion at all. Initially it was about the problems that men face, but turned into something completely different. I have no issue with feminism or women advancing further than me - in fact, I've encouraged it numerous times. But I've always believed that one person shouldn't be granted privilege over someone else. Whether they be men or women.

Feminism is supposed to be about exactly this. Not women "triumphing" over men or taking male privilege for themselves.

And of course feminism is part of this thread - that's where the blame is being put for the world being "anti-men", squarely at the feet of women and their pesky equality!

PS. To the poster who called my post a fallacy - read a book, not a third wave angry "feminist" Reddit rant.

Carlos Orange · 19-08-2015 03:44PM

sunshine and showers wrote: »

These laws were made years ago by parliaments full of men.

I'll go out on a limb and say the laws were written (or substantially amended) by politicians elected since women got equal access to the franchise.

The Randy Riverbeast · 19-08-2015 03:44PM

There are plenty of issues men have that is largely ignored but when people try to put the blame on feminism or say "If a man did this.." it comes across as having more of a problem with feminism and/or women than action concern for the men facing these issues.

TheLastMohican · 19-08-2015 03:45PM

sunshine and showers wrote: »

The maximum punishment for Rape (male only offence) and Rape Under Section 4 (gender neutral offence) is life imprisonment. For sexual assault it's ten years.

Again, women CAN be guilty of rape so no, one gender is not legally immune from punishment.

Also, I'd just like to point out that

A) I didn't make these laws, nor did I say I agree with them, so if you guys would stop with the blaming tone that'd be great

These laws were made years ago by parliaments full of men. It's not a female agenda against you.

Who's wives were a bit slow on the touch up scenario? Thereby the men couldn't perceive them instigating.

sunshine and showers · 19-08-2015 03:47PM

psinno wrote: »

I'll go out on a limb and say the laws were written (or substantially amended) by politicians elected since women got equal access to the franchise.

I didn't say they weren't elected by both sexes, I'm simply pointing out that the legal definitions of rape are not part of some female "anti-men" agenda. They're just antiquated.

Edit: TheLastMohican, your post is just plain offensive, tbh.

19-08-2015 03:48PM

sunshine and showers wrote: »

Feminism is supposed to be about exactly this. Not women "triumphing" over men or taking male privilege for themselves.

And of course feminism is part of this thread - that's where the blame is being put for the world being "anti-men", squarely at the feet of women and their pesky equality!

PS. To the poster who called my post a fallacy - read a book, not a third wave angry "feminist" Reddit rant.

It shouldn't be part of this thread. Men face a lot of issues because of how insecure and PC everything has become. I don't blame women or feminism, I blame society for allowing it to happen in the first place.

I once saw on someone write that they'll only talk to a man if they can call themselves a feminist. I find that concept odd- why should I label myself a feminist? Surely that's being counterproductive to my own gender too? I mean, I'm better off just saying, screw feminism, screw masculinism, let's just have full equal rights across the board.

smash · 19-08-2015 03:48PM

sunshine and showers wrote: »

These laws were made years ago by parliaments full of men.

Which is odd because back then if an unmarried woman got pregnant then they considered it to be her fault.

Kev W · 19-08-2015 03:54PM

sunshine and showers wrote: »

Key problem with this thread, and possibly in general society: none of us seem to actually know what feminism is. :rolleyes:

Those "feminists" who say they hate men or mock men's issues? Yeah, they're not actually feminists.

The term has been damaged, seemingly beyond repair. By men AND women.

The trouble is you get dickhead feminists claiming that feminism is about putting men down and keeping them there and dickhead misogynists claiming the same thing and somehow this one point of agreement between these two groups has lead to a poisoning of the word "feminist".

Somehow two groups of dickheads managed to ruin it for everyone.

Is the Western World anti-man?

Comments