Caitlyn/Bruce Jenner...

RDM_83 again wrote: »

Ended up seeing a reasonable number of Keeping Up With (the horror =-O ) and Jenner did seem to be genuinely weird* (unlike the others who just seem self obsessed and cynical).

I watched a good few of 'em myself, and even though I knew it was edited and scripted from start to finish, Bruce actually came off as the most grounded of the lot of 'em! :pac:


(although that whole episode where he had to ask Kris for his allowance almost seems more believable now in retrospect given media reports that Caitlyn is flat broke from the cost of their transition)

My question is, if you've bucketloads of cash can you transition without the psychological assessments and long lead in time that accompanies the process normally.

I suppose with buckets of cash, anything is possible. We're all aware of cases where money talks and medical ethics are abandoned, leading to exploiting people's insecurities. I'm not sure that's the case here though.

I know that it must put immense strains on a person living in the wrong body but they did seem fairly fcuked up

Well at least now we have more of an insight into why Bruce as he was before he transitioned displayed such unusual behaviour. I know that still doesn't explain the behaviour of the rest of the Kardashian family, or did you just mean in general people who are transgender? I guess it's a case of "if only we knew then what we know now"...

Second point, is this a really a good poster person for normalising transgenderism, isn't it more likely too reinforce the negative ones?
e.g rather than a calm stable person transitioning with dignity its a tasteless carnival starring an attention seeking celeb thats known for being dramatic and odd.

My own personal opinion? I think she is, because she shows us that being transgender isn't a condition that's limited to any specific demographic in society, and depending upon your perspective and your opinion of Bruce Jenner before she transitioned, it can either be a positive or indeed a negative example of a person who is transgender.

Far as I'm concerned, takes all sorts really, and Caitlyn seems more open about her transition than most people who are transgender. I'm sure they're an inspiration for many people, not just those people who are transgender (Caitlyn gives a good interview and is very positive about her transition in the face of the media and public scrutiny).

^^^^^
None of this implies I think she is just doing it for publicity and hopefully, it is positive in a wider sense.

I think it will be positive in the long run as Bruce was a world class athlete and motivational speaker before she transitioned, and I think they will be a positive role model for many people. There will be of course people who will try and detract from her transition and will make all sorts of derisory articles about her, but Caitlyn is well used to working the media and will in the long run be able to go on to promote a positive image of people who are transgender, long after her critics have moved on to the next person they want to diminish and dehumanise for their own entertainment or to gain attention for themselves off the back of the publicity surrounding Caitlyn Jenners transition.

Clandestine wrote: »

Anyone remember how he/she/whatever killed someone with their car? No?

Having your actions being whitewashed because you've done something "progressive" is not alright

Same thing happened with Frank Maloney.

One minute he was a shady character with lots of unanswered questions about Darren Sutherland.

As soon as he started parading around in a wig and dress, he suddenly became brave and courageous overnight.

padd b1975 wrote: »

Same thing happened with Frank Maloney.

One minute he was a shady character with lots of unanswered questions about Darren Sutherland.

As soon as he started parading around in a wig and dress, he suddenly became brave and courageous overnight.

A person can be acknowledged for being brave in a particular situation, without simultaneously denying any negative actions they may have taken, or any unsavoury aspects of their personality.

We're all complex individuals, it doesn't have to be so black and white.

Chloris wrote: »

That's exactly why I was looking for information about his wrongful death lawsuit. All of a sudden I'm seeing all these people posting on Facebook saying "wow, look how brave she is" when the last I heard he had ploughed into and killed a woman in his car.

There are a lot of people mentioning it on this thread, I don't think anyone's forgotten about it.

The handwringing in here is unreal, would Vanity Fair have put an unknown transgender on their cover, no fcuking way, bandwagon jumping.

The Kardashian's are media parasites who'll jump on any chance to big themselves up, that includes Jenner in whatever guise she / he is in now.

This whole circus has only embarrassed the LGBT and transgender community.

Whatever happened to a decent dysfunctional family like the Osbournes?

RDM_83 again wrote: »

Ended up seeing a reasonable number of Keeping Up With (the horror =-O ) and Jenner did seem to be genuinely weird* (unlike the others who just seem self obsessed and cynical).
My question is, if you've bucketloads of cash can you transition without the psychological assessments and long lead in time that accompanies the process normally.

There was a great doc on BBC with Louis Theroux called Transgender Kids a few months ago.
It followed some very small children who believed they were transgender deciding whether to prevent puberty with hormones so they could have operations to transition. It also introduced some teen patients who had been operated on to remove breast, penis and vaginas.
The scary part of the film for me was the visit with these patients and the Dr doing the surgery. I always imagined it would be done only after extensive and excruciating soul searching on everyones part, particularly where a child is concerned but instead the attitude seemed to be very much "I'll give you whatever you want". Infact I'm pretty sure the doc said those words, and he's the leading transitition surgeon in the world for kids.

One child had her breasts removed at 16. She had developed at 14 and she didn't seem like she really wanted to be a boy, more that she did not like people looking at her breasts. All her misgivings were about other peoples reactions to her changing body. She was adament she did not want genital surgery.
Another boy of 19 was having his testes removed because he had "issues" around his testicles. He wanted to keep his penis and was having a "cosmetic vagina" created, that was something that looked like a vagina and vulva but had no dept so couldn't be used for penetration. He wasn't sure if he wanted a full vagina created in future but knew he wanted to keep his penis.

They seemed like such huge decisions by children who really didn't seem to be able to articulate their discomfort as something greater than the rough end of teenage body discomfort. It definitely didn't seem like they'd had intensive psychological assessing and that they fully grasped the enormity of what was happening.
If that's true for surgeons working with kids I could imagine those working with adults would be a lot less conscientious so I'd say it's very conceivable he might've skipped the psychological "process" we all imagine exists before the surgery.

eternal wrote: »

Where are the pleasure points once your penis has been removed?

The prostate, and Sunday lunch with the girls?

The King of Moo wrote: »

Why do you think it's depraved?

Is it not obvious? Have you read what has happened here?