Atheism/Existence of God Debates (Part 2)

jaffusmax · 31-03-2015 03:42PM

MaxWig wrote: »

No, but people do not keep their beliefs to themselves.

Civilisation was built upon the exchange of idea.

You don't like some of them? Good for you!

But can you see the irony in telling someone to keep their beliefs to themselves?

I don't believe you should believe that!
I just can't tolerate your intolerance!
I really hate you for the way you hate people!

But they don't lol

That is and I mean this polity the most ridiculous thing you have said.

I have alive newspaper stuck in my door each month, I had to baptise my child to get her in a good school, I was force fed religion at school at the expense of learning something useful, my taxes are paid while the church pay none, religion prevents raped woman from having abortions by playing on peoples emotions of its members.....the list could go on and on and that is just the RRC in Ireland

MaxWig · 31-03-2015 03:43PM

jaffusmax wrote: »

But they don't lol

That is and I mean this polity the most ridiculous thing you have said.

I have alive newspaper stuck in my door each month, I had to baptise my child to get her in a good school, I was force fed religion at school at the expense of learning something useful, my taxes are paid while the church pay none, religion prevents raped woman from having abortions by playing on peoples emotions of its members.....the list could go on and on and that is just the RRC in Ireland

They don't what?

Not sure you read my post properly

jaffusmax · 31-03-2015 03:48PM

MaxWig wrote: »

They don't what?

Not sure you read my post properly

I'm so use to arguing with you I presumed wrongly you thought that religious persons do keep their beliefs to themselves.

Sorry

mossytcb · 31-03-2015 03:51PM

Oh god.

jaffusmax · 31-03-2015 03:54PM

mossytcb wrote: »

Oh god.

Not here thanks! :P

MaxWig · 31-03-2015 04:06PM

silverharp wrote: »

Protection for non religious people from the beliefs of religious people particularly when it comes to state laws and provision of services.

You avoid the question.

silverharp · 31-03-2015 04:35PM

MaxWig wrote: »

You avoid the question.

How you asked a very general question I tried to give a specific answer , I'm not looking for world piece. Its a logical proposition that as long as the views if religious people don't impact on the lives of non religious people then we can all get along.

jaffusmax · 31-03-2015 04:47PM

silverharp wrote: »

How you asked a very general question I tried to give a specific answer , I'm not looking for world piece. Its a logical proposition that as long as the views if religious people don't impact on the lives of non religious people then we can all get along.

Max appears to think Atheists believe they have all the worlds problems answers.

It is actually religion that claims that!

MaxWig · 31-03-2015 04:50PM

silverharp wrote: »

How you asked a very general question I tried to give a specific answer , I'm not looking for world piece. Its a logical proposition that as long as the views if religious people don't impact on the lives of non religious people then we can all get along.

I asked what we might begin to replace religion with, if the view is that things would be better if it were gone?

My insinuation being that I don't think you fully appreciate what it is that religion is used for

Benny_Cake · 31-03-2015 04:55PM

Given that the word "religion" covers a vast range of belief systems from Animism to Zoroastrianism it's a bit clumsy to be throwing it around so much in recent posts.

Most of the objections to "religion" here seem to exclusively relate to one subgroup of one religion, namely the Roman Catholic Church. My personal view is that some of the criticism is valid while some is inaccurate or wildly over the top. It would help if people weren't so free and easy with the "R word" though.

jaffusmax · 31-03-2015 05:04PM

Benny_Cake wrote: »

Given that the word "religion" covers a vast range of belief systems from Animism to Zoroastrianism it's a bit clumsy to be throwing it around so much in recent posts.

Most of the objections to "religion" here seem to exclusively relate to one subgroup of one religion, namely the Roman Catholic Church. My personal view is that some of the criticism is valid while some is inaccurate or wildly over the top. It would help if people weren't so free and easy with the "R word" though.

I use the word Religion and know exactly in what context I use it. Where you find Religion you also find the Supernatural and many of them worship Deities! Practically every religion has had some kind of atrocity or injustice caused in its name!"

marienbad · 31-03-2015 05:06PM

hinault wrote: »

The fact is that artificial contraception only generally became available in Britain from the late 1950's onwards.

From wiki

''In 1932, the London Rubber Company (which had previously been a wholesale business importing German condoms) began to produce latex condoms, under the Durex brand.''

They were never illegal as far as I know in Britain . They were made illegal in Ireland in 1935 until 1980 and even then only legalised for married couples . That was specifically done to comply with Catholic teaching . And the RCC bitter opposed their legalisation,

The fact that they were made illegal in 1935 is further evidence of their availability in England .

Magnate · 31-03-2015 05:07PM

...I love this thread.

silverharp · 31-03-2015 05:10PM

MaxWig wrote: »

I asked what we might begin to replace religion with, if the view is that things would be better if it were gone?

My insinuation being that I don't think you fully appreciate what it is that religion is used for

who would do the "replacing"? how does not believing in something require "replacing" the not believed thing with something else?

hinault · 31-03-2015 05:18PM

silverharp wrote: »

Can you show be a link saying that all contraception was illegal in Britain ? They were certainly issued to troops during the wars 1 and 2
It still doesn't change the fact that they were being manufactured and sold legally . or that the Irish situation was a church inspired policy. For a country with a high emigration it woulnt have made any economic sense

Artificial contraception was not widely available in Britain until 1950's.
It wasn't until 1961 that the pill was available through the British National Health Service.

In Ireland artificial contraception became available in 1985 if I remember correctly.

Given the time lines evident in both countries, it is reasonable to suggest that Ireland was not that far behind Britain in that regard.

hinault · 31-03-2015 05:20PM

Benny_Cake wrote: »

Given that the word "religion" covers a vast range of belief systems from Animism to Zoroastrianism it's a bit clumsy to be throwing it around so much in recent posts.

Most of the objections to "religion" here seem to exclusively relate to one subgroup of one religion, namely the Roman Catholic Church. My personal view is that some of the criticism is valid while some is inaccurate or wildly over the top. It would help if people weren't so free and easy with the "R word" though.

Why are avowed atheists permitted to troll threads in the Christianity section of this website?

galljga1 · 31-03-2015 05:21PM

jaffusmax wrote: »

Not here thanks! :P

Of course she is here. This is the christianity forum.

PopePalpatine · 31-03-2015 05:23PM

hinault wrote: »

Artificial contraception was not widely available in Britain until 1950's.
It wasn't until 1961 that the pill was available through the British National Health Service.

They. Were. Not. Outlawed. In. The. UK.

How many times does this need to be repeated?

Delirium · 31-03-2015 05:24PM

hinault wrote: »

Why are avowed atheists permitted to troll threads in the Christianity section of this website?

MOD NOTE

Please use the report button if you perceive anyone to be trolling.

Thanks for your attention.

MaxWig · 31-03-2015 05:24PM

silverharp wrote: »

who would do the "replacing"? how does not believing in something require "replacing" the not believed thing with something else?

The reduction of religion to belief in the supernatural is to miss the point.

galljga1 · 31-03-2015 05:26PM

hinault wrote: »

Why are avowed atheists permitted to troll threads in the Christianity section of this website?

Check out the title of the thread!

jaffusmax · 31-03-2015 05:28PM

hinault wrote: »

Why are avowed atheists permitted to troll threads in the Christianity section of this website?

Only a Religious Folk could call anyone that questions their faith based on well thought out arguments "trolls"

Unfortunately for Hinlaut and Co there are many free thinking people that will take up the challenge of refuting the fallacies propagated by their faith that only through it can people be free and obtain everlasting life when in fact they would want us all to obediently accept their totalitarian god whom commands us to be slaves in this life and the next!

jaffusmax · 31-03-2015 05:32PM

MaxWig wrote: »

The reduction of religion to belief in the supernatural is to miss the point.

How? Would you wish to be part of a country where the State Religion was belief in the Toothfairy?

Based on teaching of the Toothfairy through her Prophets and personally through spiritual mediation by the Tooth Fairy Bishop of Dublin he has felt wise to state his deep conviction that no man shall wear a "Condom"

hinault · 31-03-2015 05:36PM

SW wrote: »

MOD NOTE

Please use the report button if you perceive anyone to be trolling.

Thanks for your attention.

Will do.

MaxWig · 31-03-2015 05:36PM

silverharp wrote: »

who would do the "replacing"? how does not believing in something require "replacing" the not believed thing with something else?

You believe that we can just do away with the customs related to birth and death, existence and non-existence in the blink of an eye AND that that is a good idea.

No further consideration required?

Delirium · 31-03-2015 05:56PM

jaffusmax wrote: »

Only a Religious Folk could call anyone that questions their faith based on well thought out arguments "trolls"

Unfortunately for Hinlaut and Co there are many free thinking people that will take up the challenge of refuting the fallacies propagated by their faith that only through it can people be free and obtain everlasting life when in fact they would want us all to obediently accept their totalitarian god whom commands us to be slaves in this life and the next!

MOD NOTE

Please drop the discussion regarding trolling.

Also, please bear in mind that this is the Christianity forum so could you please rein in the "free thinkers/totalitarian god" rhetoric.

Thanks for your attention.

silverharp · 31-03-2015 05:56PM

hinault wrote: »

Artificial contraception was not widely available in Britain until 1950's.
It wasn't until 1961 that the pill was available through the British National Health Service.

In Ireland artificial contraception became available in 1985 if I remember correctly.

Given the time lines evident in both countries, it is reasonable to suggest that Ireland was not that far behind Britain in that regard.

Second picture at the end shows a condom from the 1940's and it gives the address of a pharmacy in Leicester Square in London so can you stop equating not free on the NHS to you will go to jail if you sell them in Ireland. In Ireland the change in the 80's depended on protests , and the government at the time ignoring what the church wanted

http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-20043530

silverharp · 31-03-2015 06:04PM

MaxWig wrote: »

You believe that we can just do away with the customs related to birth and death, existence and non-existence in the blink of an eye AND that that is a good idea.

No further consideration required?

I stated earlier that i expect there to be a catholic church in Ireland (and others) to be still there in a hundred years time, so whats the issue? in the meantime I'd expect more facilities to pop up that will deal with non religious wrt customs however if the role of the catholic church becomes ceremonial after its been defanged :pac: then thats fine by me.

you like trying to put words in my mouth that I have never suggested "blink of a eye" is all you. Please read what I post and not add your own spin into what I didnt say

jaffusmax · 31-03-2015 06:09PM

Ill be no longer posting and have gave my reason to the mod!

Happy Easter

MaxWig · 31-03-2015 06:32PM

silverharp wrote: »

I stated earlier that i expect there to be a catholic church in Ireland (and others) to be still there in a hundred years time, so whats the issue? in the meantime I'd expect more facilities to pop up that will deal with non religious wrt customs however if the role of the catholic church becomes ceremonial after its been defanged :pac: then thats fine by me.

you like trying to put words in my mouth that I have never suggested "blink of a eye" is all you. Please read what I post and not add your own spin into what I didnt say

OK - replace 'gradually' with blink of an eye - but taken in terms of the thousands of years in which religions have developed, you would imagine any change would be pretty quick, relatively.

I really have to take issue with the idea that I'm putting words in your mouth or misrepresenting you.

You have not stated, nor have I suggested you have, that the world would be a paradise without religion.

You have stated that it would be nominally better considering the misguided teachings of some churches and the way they are enacted by their followers.

I have repeatedly said that I felt this was to miss a large part of what religion means. You frequently ignored this point.

So I am asking you, considering the billions of people throughout the world who look to some belief system for personal, private guidance or solace in times of existential confusion or massive grief, are you sure the world would be a slightly better place without religion - even considering the topics we clearly agree upon regarding family planning and institutional prejudices etc.

I'm also curious as to what kind of non-religious customs might deal with said issues (death, existence, meaning etc.)

Atheism/Existence of God Debates (Part 2)

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