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Derry - Coleraine Railway upgrade

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Comments

  • #2
    cgcsb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,262 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    2 hours and 15 minutes is a disgrace when a car journey takes between 1h20 and 1h40. Even Iarnród Éireann aren't that bad.


  • #3
    smcgiff
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,943 ✭✭✭smcgiff


    cgcsb wrote: »
    2 hours and 15 minutes is a disgrace when a car journey takes between 1h20 and 1h40. Even Iarnród Éireann aren't that bad.

    Limerick to Galway?


  • #4
    doopa
    Registered Users Posts: 435 ✭✭doopa


    cgcsb wrote: »
    2 hours and 15 minutes is a disgrace when a car journey takes between 1h20 and 1h40. Even Iarnród Éireann aren't that bad.

    I believe they don't want to compete with the Translink bus service. (facepalm)


  • #5
    cgcsb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,262 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    smcgiff wrote: »
    Limerick to Galway?
    Not quite

    Driving is about a half hour faster than the Limerick-Galway Train
    Driving is nearly a full hour faster than the Belfast-Derry Train


  • #6
    smcgiff
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,943 ✭✭✭smcgiff


    cgcsb wrote: »
    Not quite

    Driving is about a half hour faster than the Limerick-Galway Train
    Driving is nearly a full hour faster than the Belfast-Derry Train

    Google Maps - Limerick Bus Station to Galway bus station - 1 hr 21 mins by car.

    CIE - Limerick to Galway - 2 Hr 15 minutes first train of the day direct.

    Just shy of the hour quicker by car

    Or if you went on the 15:45 train from Limerick to Galway 4 Hrs 12 minutes journey time :pac: (although this includes three changes, it's sill the official Limerick to Galway journey at that time).


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  • #7
    cgcsb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,262 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    smcgiff wrote: »
    Google Maps - Limerick Bus Station to Galway bus station - 1 hr 21 mins by car.

    CIE - Limerick to Galway - 2 Hr 15 minutes first train of the day direct.

    Just shy of the hour quicker by car

    Most trains take 1h55 though, Which is what I was comparing and you wouldn't do it in the car in 1h21 with peak hour traffic.


  • #8
    smcgiff
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,943 ✭✭✭smcgiff


    cgcsb wrote: »
    Most trains take 1h55 though, Which is what I was comparing and you wouldn't do it in the car in 1h21 with peak hour traffic.

    No, you wouldn't do it in peak time, but that's only at peak hours.

    Of the 8 daily trains from Limerick to Galway there are 3 journeys around 1h 55, there are 3 journeys around 4 hours and 2 in between.

    Plus, who takes as long as the projected time when driving... erm... me, that's who *cough*


  • #9
    cgcsb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,262 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    smcgiff wrote: »
    No, you wouldn't do it in peak time, but that's only at peak hours.

    Of the 8 daily trains from Limerick to Galway there are 3 journeys around 1h 55, there are 3 journeys around 4 hours and 2 in between.

    Plus, who takes as long as the projected time when driving... erm... me, that's who *cough*

    I obviously didn't count the 4 hour ones via portarlington, who does that. Anyway that's enough pedantry.


  • #10
    dubhthach
    Registered Users Posts: 3,284 ✭✭✭dubhthach


    Folks can we get back on topic about Derry <-> Coleraine and not arguing over Limerick to Galway.


  • #11
    Banjoxed
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,844 ✭✭✭Banjoxed


    Derry -Coleraine -Belfast really serves two main markets: Derry - Coleraine - Portrush and Portrush - Coleraine - Belfast. All improvements in recent years have added passengers and there are increased numbers travelling through as the bus doesn't suit everyone for the reasons in the next paragraph.

    As for driving to Belfast in 1h 20, given the bottlenecks on the A6 that would be a two in the morning job. Two hours at peak is as fast as it can be.


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  • #12
    Vic_08
    Registered Users Posts: 3,041 ✭✭✭Vic_08


    cgcsb wrote: »
    2 hours and 15 minutes is a disgrace when a car journey takes between 1h20 and 1h40.


    I wonder if the road being c70 miles and the railway c95 miles has anything to do with the difference?


  • #13
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,540 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    cgcsb wrote: »
    2 hours and 15 minutes is a disgrace when a car journey takes between 1h20 and 1h40. Even Iarnród Éireann aren't that bad.



    Have you actually compared the routes that the railway and the road take?


    The railway goes along the north coast to Coleraine, and then comes back down to Belfast.


    The road goes a direct route over Glenshane Pass.


    It's a bit difficult to compare apples and oranges.


  • #14
    cgcsb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,262 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    Vic_08 wrote: »
    I wonder if the road being c70 miles and the railway c95 miles has anything to do with the difference?

    Of course it does. But as was determined in the UK 40 years ago, rail needs to have consistent 125mph running to be competitive.


  • #15
    cgcsb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,262 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    lxflyer wrote: »
    Have you actually compared the routes that the railway and the road take?


    The railway goes along the north coast to Coleraine, and then comes back down to Belfast.


    The road goes a direct route over Glenshane Pass.


    It's a bit difficult to compare apples and oranges.

    Yes I'm familiar


  • #16
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,540 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    cgcsb wrote: »
    Yes I'm familiar



    Well then why make a comment such as the one you made above?


    Given the rail route is substantially longer it's not unreasonable to expect that it might take longer as well.


  • #17
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,540 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    cgcsb wrote: »
    Of course it does. But as was determined in the UK 40 years ago, rail needs to have consistent 125mph running to be competitive.



    This is a regional railway not an Intercity high speed line - I think you need to be realistic.


    The year-on-year increased numbers using the railway line would tend not to agree with your statement.


  • #18
    doopa
    Registered Users Posts: 435 ✭✭doopa


    lxflyer wrote: »
    This is a regional railway not an Intercity high speed line - I think you need to be realistic.


    The year-on-year increased numbers using the railway line would tend not to agree with your statement.

    I think part of the problem is that this isn't an intercity line when it should be. Can't think of two comparable cities in the rUK that have such a terrible rail route & no motorway.

    And the reason no uses the rail line is because the line is so terrible. So its a vicious circle of negative reinforcement.


  • #19
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,540 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    doopa wrote: »
    I think part of the problem is that this isn't an intercity line when it should be. Can't think of two comparable cities in the rUK that have such a terrible rail route & no motorway.

    And the reason no uses the rail line is because the line is so terrible. So its a vicious circle of negative reinforcement.



    The reality is though that people are using the railway - the numbers have been increasing such that some trains are strengthened.


  • #20
    cgcsb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,262 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    lxflyer wrote: »
    Well then why make a comment such as the one you made above?


    Given the rail route is substantially longer it's not unreasonable to expect that it might take longer as well.

    25 miles longer hardly justifies an additional hours journey. Especially when intercity trains are supposed to be substantially faster than cars to compete with the convenience factor cars offer.


  • #21
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,540 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    cgcsb wrote: »
    25 miles longer hardly justifies an additional hours journey. Especially when intercity trains are supposed to be substantially faster than cars to compete with the convenience factor cars offer.



    The standard journey time from Belfast Central is 2 hours 5 minutes - that's not an hour longer - anything but.


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  • #22
    cgcsb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,262 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    lxflyer wrote: »
    The standard journey time from Belfast Central is 2 hours 5 minutes - that's not an hour longer - anything but.

    2h15 I believe. Compared to a 1h20 off peak drive is about 55 minutes.


  • #23
    doopa
    Registered Users Posts: 435 ✭✭doopa


    lxflyer wrote: »
    The standard journey time from Belfast Central is 2 hours 5 minutes - that's not an hour longer - anything but.

    2 hours 20 minutes you mean? Dep 6:05 arrive 8:25. 07:13-09:50

    Google maps says an 1:30 for driving.

    So - it is about an hour. What's with defending a substandard rail service anyway?


  • #24
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,540 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    cgcsb wrote: »
    2h15 I believe. Compared to a 1h20 off peak drive is about 55 minutes.



    It is 2 hours 5 minutes from Belfast Central Station.


    You're looking at Great Victoria Street, which requires the train to go around a long loop of the south of Belfast City Centre.


    http://www.translink.co.uk/Documents/timetables/NI%20Railways%20november%202014/Belfast%20-%20Derry_Londonderry.pdf


  • #25
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,540 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    doopa wrote: »
    2 hours 20 minutes you mean? Dep 6:05 arrive 8:25. 07:13-09:50

    Google maps says an 1:30 for driving.

    So - it is about an hour. What's with defending a substandard rail service anyway?

    I'm setting the record straight - there is incorrect information being posted, including your assertion that people were not using the train.

    1:30 -v- 2:05 is 35 minutes - not an hour.

    There is still an upgrade to be completed which will result in more trains and hopefully higher line speeds.


  • #26
    Vic_08
    Registered Users Posts: 3,041 ✭✭✭Vic_08


    doopa wrote: »
    I think part of the problem is that this isn't an intercity line when it should be. Can't think of two comparable cities in the rUK that have such a terrible rail route & no motorway.

    And which exact cities are you thinking of that are comparable? Ones with multiples of the population, closer together and on lines with significantly larger population centres in between the two would be my bet.

    How about Aberdeen-Inverness, both a bit smaller but probably the closest match you will find. Or Cardiff-Chester, both bigger with 4 significant towns in between.

    Why does this nonsense of comparing small Irish towns and cities to much larger and more densely populated regions in other countries appear so often on here? Are people so deluded that they can't see the huge difference between our small sparsely populated island and our European neighbours that are 10 times larger? In other words; No, you can't have a 125mph express from Belfast to Derry and no, it is not a reasonable request.


  • #27
    doopa
    Registered Users Posts: 435 ✭✭doopa


    Vic_08 wrote: »
    And which exact cities are you thinking of that are comparable? Ones with multiples of the population, closer together and on lines with significantly larger population centres in between the two would be my bet.

    How about Aberdeen-Inverness, both a bit smaller but probably the closest match you will find. Or Cardiff-Chester, both bigger with 4 significant towns in between.

    Google maps reckons the Aberdeen - Inverness rail line is quicker than the car.
    Chester is well served by rail connections. And again the train is quicker. I guess what I am getting at is that Derry is terribly linked by infrastructure. It is difficult to think of another city in the UK or Europe of its size that is quite as terribly linked. And its not like Belfast is much better. Enterprise link to Dublin is pretty embarrassing for a flagship route between the two main cities.
    Why does this nonsense of comparing small Irish towns and cities to much larger and more densely populated regions in other countries appear so often on here? Are people so deluded that they can't see the huge difference between our small sparsely populated island and our European neighbours that are 10 times larger? In other words; No, you can't have a 125mph express from Belfast to Derry and no, it is not a reasonable request.

    NI is quite densely populated c.f. RoI. Also its fair enough to ask that the two major population centres are well linked. I guess people like making comparisons. It is one way of judging progress or benchmarking things.


  • #28
    cgcsb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,262 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    Vic_08 wrote: »
    And which exact cities are you thinking of that are comparable? Ones with multiples of the population, closer together and on lines with significantly larger population centres in between the two would be my bet.

    How about Aberdeen-Inverness, both a bit smaller but probably the closest match you will find. Or Cardiff-Chester, both bigger with 4 significant towns in between.

    Why does this nonsense of comparing small Irish towns and cities to much larger and more densely populated regions in other countries appear so often on here? Are people so deluded that they can't see the huge difference between our small sparsely populated island and our European neighbours that are 10 times larger? In other words; No, you can't have a 125mph express from Belfast to Derry and no, it is not a reasonable request.

    Limerick-Cork journey times by rail are as low as 1h35 including a change of train, similar populations to Belfast-Derry, Mallow would be about the largest settlement in between. The road distance is 100km(approx 62 miles in UK measurements), the Rail distance is about 140km (87miles)

    The journey time by Car is around 1h35, in good traffic.


  • #29
    ardmacha
    Registered Users Posts: 7,476 ✭✭✭ardmacha


    Vic_08 wrote: »
    Why does this nonsense of comparing small Irish towns and cities to much larger and more densely populated regions in other countries appear so often on here? Are people so deluded that they can't see the huge difference between our small sparsely populated island and our European neighbours that are 10 times larger? In other words; No, you can't have a 125mph express from Belfast to Derry and no, it is not a reasonable request.

    This is fair comment. But the likes of Finland has made a go of higher speed trains in the less densely populated country.


  • #30
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,540 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    Just to reiterate - this is a single track railway with passing loops, not a "high speed" railway line.

    Excluding HS1, the high speed line that Eurostar uses in the southeast, there are only four classic high speed lines in the UK operating to 125mph:

    West Coast mainline (London Euston - Birmingham, Manchester, Liverpool and Glasgow)
    East Coast mainline (London Kings Cross - Edinburgh)
    Midland mainline (London St Pancras - Sheffield)
    Great Western mainline (London Paddington - South Wales and Bristol)

    An element of reality is needed here.


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  • #31
    BonkeyDonker
    Registered Users Posts: 571 ✭✭✭BonkeyDonker


    cgcsb wrote: »
    25 miles longer hardly justifies an additional hours journey. Especially when intercity trains are supposed to be substantially faster than cars to compete with the convenience factor cars offer.

    Does the car journey include stopping several times along the way??


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