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Weight Loss, Operation Transformation etc.

  • 11-01-2015 8:35pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 16


    I am somewhat uncomfortable with the whole direction that most advice on weight loss takes. My main problem is that the scientific community are beginning to recognise that the calories in/calories out model, which is the basis for most weight loss advice, is hopelessy simplistic and while it delivers short-term results, the long term benefits are less successful for most people. This new direction of thought is hardly ever mentioned and as our obesity problem get worse every year it might be time to start re-evaluating our public health advice in this area.

    For anyone interested in this a good place to start is "Why we get fat and what to do about it" by science journalist Gary Taubes. The book documents the history of obesity and how we came to believe in the calories in/calories out model. It makes facinating reading and shows that obesity is not the "modern" disorder we think it is.

    If what this study suggests is true than all our efforts using current thinking will allow the probelm of obesity, and its public health implications, to worsen over time.

    Just wordering in any other people share my concerns.
    Tagged:


«1

Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,957 ✭✭✭Magenta


    Operation Transformation doesn't even GIVE calories!!!
    "Here are 12 meals, eat these over and over and over, we won't tell you why".

    And then fitness advice from Karl Henry who looks like he wouldn't know a dumbell if it hit him in the face!


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,969 ✭✭✭hardCopy


    Magenta wrote: »
    Operation Transformation doesn't even GIVE calories!!!
    "Here are 12 meals, eat these over and over and over, we won't tell you why".

    And then fitness advice from Karl Henry who looks like he wouldn't know a dumbell if it hit him in the face!

    They do list calories on each recipe. The website isn't great and there's no macro breakdown but the calories are there, just under the title of each meal.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,514 ✭✭✭Naked Lepper


    watched that operation transformation show recently, the people on it seemed to be happy and doing positive things and more power to them, in saying that though they were following these overweight people around on it who were losing a few pounds. was expecting to see a bit more of a transformation at the end tho cos they all still seemed fairly big, there was this really overweight girl on a catwalk at the end prancing about celebrating going from like 19 stone to 18 and a half stone or something. seemed a bit halfhearted.


  • Registered Users Posts: 24,537 ✭✭✭✭Alf Veedersane


    was expecting to see a bit more of a transformation at the end tho cos they all still seemed fairly big, there was this really overweight girl on a catwalk at the end prancing about celebrating going from like 19 stone to 18 and a half stone or something. seemed a bit halfhearted.

    There's been no one that lost less than a stone.

    And it's only 8 weeks. I'm not sure your expectations of what someone can do and sustain in 8 weeks.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,514 ✭✭✭Naked Lepper


    oh ok i dunno, sorry i just saw one episode and dont follow the show. thought it was all done in one show and that was the start and finish.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 714 ✭✭✭feelgoodinc27


    A longer term follow up would be interesting to see though, something like 1 year on.


  • Registered Users Posts: 24,537 ✭✭✭✭Alf Veedersane


    A longer term follow up would be interesting to see though, something like 1 year on.

    Think they did that the week before the latest series. Not for all the previous contestants.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,489 ✭✭✭sh1tstirrer


    Think they did that the week before the latest series. Not for all the previous contestants.
    They did and very few kept the weight off they even had the contestants that didn't keep up the weight loss sitting down with the camera showing them from the shoulders up :rolleyes: Next week they'll have them climbing ladders of fire engines, that should help them lose a bit of weight :rolleyes:


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,249 ✭✭✭Macy0161


    Operation Transformation is still better than that stupid new channel 4 one, where they go head to head over money.

    The problem with these type of shows, imo, is that the motivation has to come from yourself ultimately. I'm not qualified to say whether calories in and out is the right process for long term health and keeping the weight off, but I'd be fairly sure that motivation because of the TV camera's, money going to someone you don't like or because you have x number of followers is only going to be short term.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,134 ✭✭✭gubbie


    Macy0161 wrote: »
    Operation Transformation is still better than that stupid new channel 4 one, where they go head to head over money.

    At least the channel 4 one measures body fat rather than just weight.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,049 ✭✭✭groovyg


    gubbie wrote: »
    At least the channel 4 one measures body fat rather than just weight.

    Does it really matter if they measure body fat when looking at the contestants that are on this programme? None of them are professional athletes or body builders. I saw a great comment on the OT face book page 'if it wobbles you are fat'
    Before the programme started they uploaded the BMI chart to their FB page and were there were a lot of complaints about how inaccurate BMI was, fair enough it's not applicable to professional athletes/ bodybuilders etc but some of the posters who were complaining were drawing analogies between their own height and weight with the likes of Keith Wood and Jonah Lomu!! One guy posted that according to the chart he was borderline obese even though he runs marathons!! when you looked at some of the profiles of those who were complaining some are in serious denial about their weight.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,134 ✭✭✭gubbie


    groovyg wrote: »
    Does it really matter if they measure body fat when looking at the contestants that are on this programme?

    What about in The Biggest Loser, where you hear stories that in the last week of the contestants to try and be as light as possible, that exercise like crazy, spend the week in the sauna to get every bit of water, muscle, fat, everything out?


  • Registered Users Posts: 24,537 ✭✭✭✭Alf Veedersane


    gubbie wrote: »
    What about in The Biggest Loser, where you hear stories that in the last week of the contestants to try and be as light as possible, that exercise like crazy, spend the week in the sauna to get every bit of water, muscle, fat, everything out?

    I think they meant it doesn't matter what the metric is rather than the means to reduce it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 16 StoryChief87


    I love operation transformation. To see people who are really struggling and go out and try to improve themselves emotionally and physically is amazing to watch.
    I have recently lost a considerable bit of weight myself after years of trying and failing. The main reason I suceeded this time was education in nutrition. We all have to understand exactly what we are eating and what it does to our bodies. For this reason I'm sceptical of shows like the biggest loser because it seems like a "lose as much as you can in one week or you've failed" process. Maybe that's a simplistic view. Are these shows really educating the contestants about nutrition? If not I'd imagine the majority will end up back at square one, like I did many times. It's ok telling them to go to tesco and pick up white fish and low fat milk but if they can't understand why then I don't know if they'll sustain it. I hope I'm wrong


  • Registered Users Posts: 24,537 ✭✭✭✭Alf Veedersane


    I love operation transformation. To see people who are really struggling and go out and try to improve themselves emotionally and physically is amazing to watch.
    I have recently lost a considerable bit of weight myself after years of trying and failing. The main reason I suceeded this time was education in nutrition. We all have to understand exactly what we are eating and what it does to our bodies. For this reason I'm sceptical of shows like the biggest loser because it seems like a "lose as much as you can in one week or you've failed" process. Maybe that's a simplistic view. Are these shows really educating the contestants about nutrition? If not I'd imagine the majority will end up back at square one, like I did many times. It's ok telling them to go to tesco and pick up white fish and low fat milk but if they can't understand why then I don't know if they'll sustain it. I hope I'm wrong

    Bingo!

    Fair play to you on succeeding.

    I saw The Biggest Loser on ITV and it seemed to be more interest in entertainment than any sort of sustainable behaviour. The nutrition guidance seemed to be minimal and the workouts were wayu above and beyond what anyone was going to have available to them outside of the show. A few did succeed at it but it could have been a lot better.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,957 ✭✭✭Magenta


    groovyg wrote: »
    Before the programme started they uploaded the BMI chart to their FB page and were there were a lot of complaints about how inaccurate BMI was, fair enough it's not applicable to professional athletes/ bodybuilders etc but some of the posters who were complaining were drawing analogies between their own height and weight with the likes of Keith Wood and Jonah Lomu!!

    Oh, yep, the good old "BMI is not accurate for 100% of people therefore I ignore it" excuse.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,489 ✭✭✭sh1tstirrer


    Bingo!

    Fair play to you on succeeding.

    I saw The Biggest Loser on ITV and it seemed to be more interest in entertainment than any sort of sustainable behaviour. The nutrition guidance seemed to be minimal and the workouts were wayu above and beyond what anyone was going to have available to them outside of the show. A few did succeed at it but it could have been a lot better.

    Operation transformation is no better purely for tv ratings. You have a great chance of being a contestant if you're overweight with a good sob story and can cry floods of tears in front of the camera. Did you see what they had them doing last night climbing a fire engine ladder and dramatised the sh1te out of it. Operation transformation is no better than the biggest loser. Catherine Thomas with her false delight because they lose a few pounds anyone obese who try's to lose weight will always lose a lot in the start it gets harder to lose as they get nearer their goal.


  • Registered Users Posts: 125 ✭✭uberalex


    I think that Gary Taubes's work needs to carry a warning label. He has not yet validated his theories, although there does seem to be funding for him to do so.

    For *weight control*, the evidence seems to suggest that the calorie in/calorie out model is sound. There are a large number of approximations (different availability based on cooking type, digestibility, bio-availability and so on). Additionally, there is the challenge that the body is highly adaptive: it will regulate its RMR and activity level very subtly. A good example is that as people plateau in their diet, one reason is that they become more subtly inactive.

    If you control what you eat rigidly, you can lose weight (some of it muscle, some of it fat) on virtually any diet. You may not be happy or particularly healthy, but it is possible. What happens is that most people spring back, the body is very good at restoring lost fat reserves when given the chance. There's a complex intermix of ghrelin, leptin, cortisol and many other hormones at play.

    For *health* a balanced diet is needed that maintains the necessary micro- and macro-nutrients, so naturally the advice that centers around foods that avoid added fat, salt, sugar is probably universally sound. It's also necessary to get out of the mentality that maintaining such a diet is temporary.

    It's very interesting to look at the National Weight Control Registry data, it's got some conclusions about actual long-term weight maintenance.
    http://www.nwcr.ws/Research/default.htm


  • Registered Users Posts: 16 StoryChief87


    Operation transformation is no better purely for tv ratings. You have a great chance of being a contestant if you're overweight with a good sob story and can cry floods of tears in front of the camera. Did you see what they had them doing last night climbing a fire engine ladder and dramatised the sh1te out of it. Operation transformation is no better than the biggest loser. Catherine Thomas with her false delight because they lose a few pounds anyone obese who try's to lose weight will always lose a lot in the start it gets harder to lose as they get nearer their goal.

    Obviously there's an element of entertainment about it otherwise nobody would watch it. But for me I think OT lets the contestants fend for themselves during the week and they're to do their own exercise to achieve their goals. That's the only way they will learn in my opinion. When I've watched BL it seems like some of the trainers are almost belittling and embarrassing the contestants every week.

    I'm well aware how easy it is to lose it at the begining and the struggle there after. I just prefer how OT goes about educating people and trying to impact the whole country rather than the boot camp style of BL. But hey, that's only my opinion.


  • Registered Users Posts: 24,537 ✭✭✭✭Alf Veedersane


    Operation transformation is no better purely for tv ratings. You have a great chance of being a contestant if you're overweight with a good sob story and can cry floods of tears in front of the camera. Did you see what they had them doing last night climbing a fire engine ladder and dramatised the sh1te out of it. Operation transformation is no better than the biggest loser. Catherine Thomas with her false delight because they lose a few pounds anyone obese who try's to lose weight will always lose a lot in the start it gets harder to lose as they get nearer their goal.

    The difference is they're given more guidance on nutrition. Not brilliant guidance but given recipes with calorie values so they at least have the concept of what portions of certain foods give X calories. And they all have their own exercise plans that aren't focussed on climbing ladders.

    They have plenty of work to do but the focus is more on nutrition and it's more realistic which makes it more sustainable.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,134 ✭✭✭gubbie


    The difference is they're given more guidance on nutrition. Not brilliant guidance but given recipes with calorie values so they at least have the concept of what portions of certain foods give X calories. And they all have their own exercise plans that aren't focussed on climbing ladders.

    They have plenty of work to do but the focus is more on nutrition and it's more realistic which makes it more sustainable.

    I think BL give a lot of nutritional advice too, they just don't think it's interesting enough to show unless they're getting paid. Or at least, they must get some because one of the old contestants is appealing to his fans to fund his trip to Fiji to teach them about nutrition.

    Link $10K he wants!


  • Registered Users Posts: 24,537 ✭✭✭✭Alf Veedersane


    gubbie wrote: »
    I think BL give a lot of nutritional advice too, they just don't think it's interesting enough to show unless they're getting paid. Or at least, they must get some because one of the old contestants is appealing to his fans to fund his trip to Fiji to teach them about nutrition.

    Link $10K he wants!

    Like I said, some of them were successful. And it's possible they do have some nutrition advice on it but they certainly kept it a secret if they did. It's also plausible that the short term results spurred him on and he went and educated himself.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,969 ✭✭✭hardCopy


    Like I said, some of them were successful. And it's possible they do have some nutrition advice on it but they certainly kept it a secret if they did. It's also plausible that the short term results spurred him on and he went and educated himself.

    One key difference between operation transformation and shows like biggest loser is that the participants do their own shopping and cooking, they live at home with their family and all the distractions of daily life, as opposed to living in a pressure cooker away from everyone.


  • Registered Users Posts: 24,537 ✭✭✭✭Alf Veedersane


    hardCopy wrote: »
    One key difference between operation transformation and shows like biggest loser is that the participants do their own shopping and cooking, they live at home with their family and all the distractions of daily life, as opposed to living in a pressure cooker away from everyone.

    Exactly. They have to make the changes to their lives from the start.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,253 ✭✭✭ellejay


    Operation transformation is no better purely for tv ratings. You have a great chance of being a contestant if you're overweight with a good sob story and can cry floods of tears in front of the camera. Did you see what they had them doing last night climbing a fire engine ladder and dramatised the sh1te out of it. Operation transformation is no better than the biggest loser. Catherine Thomas with her false delight because they lose a few pounds anyone obese who try's to lose weight will always lose a lot in the start it gets harder to lose as they get nearer their goal.

    I imagine Catherine Thomas spends so much time with the contestants that she is genuinely happy for them to have lost weight. Most women recognise how hard it is for another person to loose weight and are genuinely happy for them

    I can honestly tell you, it's very very hard to loose a couple of pounds, even at the beginning.
    I'm slightly following the OT plan and I can tell you, it's not easy.

    The leader Eilish admitted she wasn't considered obese in her local area. But she knew herself she needed to loose weight.

    When I say slightly, I'm doing the exercise plans and keeping to the calories but my meals aren't exactly the same, although the ingredients are similar.
    Frankly I don't have budget and time.
    With that in mind, I hope to loose 1.5 - 2 lbs a week.

    What myself and people like me get out of OT is the motivation to get up and move. I've noticed that even out walking, in my local area, everyone is now smiling and saying hello. I'd say the amount out walking has quadrupled.

    Another valuable tool from OT is the portion control!! it's so important.

    In my opinion the recipe's in OT show how you can jazz up boring ingredients so it's not just small boring meat and two veg meals.

    Also, it's very helpful to see other people struggling too.
    To see them disparagingly read the food plans, struggle to fit in the exercises and deal with emotional issue's, all on camera, really makes me admire them and helps me to continue on.

    I think OT shows real people with real lives trying to change their lives. I don't think you can say that about Biggest looser. They're all put up in a hotel with meals and exercise equipment handed to them. No work commitments or school runs, doing homework, getting the shopping after a hard day at work, cooking meals, visiting parents. How to fit it all in!!!

    In my own case I'm hoping by the end of the 8 weeks I'll be in the strong habit of exercise and eating correctly. I know I won't have achieved my goal, but I'll certainly have the tools to continue on.

    However I would have to say the ridiculous fire brigade stunt really annoyed me. I get that it's meant to build up their self esteem but I don't actually like that element of the show.

    My tuppence worth anyway!


  • Registered Users Posts: 16 StoryChief87


    ellejay wrote: »
    I imagine Catherine Thomas spends so much time with the contestants that she is genuinely happy for them to have lost weight. Most women recognise how hard it is for another person to loose weight and are genuinely happy for them

    I can honestly tell you, it's very very hard to loose a couple of pounds, even at the beginning.
    I'm slightly following the OT plan and I can tell you, it's not easy.

    The leader Eilish admitted she wasn't considered obese in her local area. But she knew herself she needed to loose weight.

    When I say slightly, I'm doing the exercise plans and keeping to the calories but my meals aren't exactly the same, although the ingredients are similar.
    Frankly I don't have budget and time.
    With that in mind, I hope to loose 1.5 - 2 lbs a week.

    What myself and people like me get out of OT is the motivation to get up and move. I've noticed that even out walking, in my local area, everyone is now smiling and saying hello. I'd say the amount out walking has quadrupled.

    Another valuable tool from OT is the portion control!! it's so important.

    In my opinion the recipe's in OT show how you can jazz up boring ingredients so it's not just small boring meat and two veg meals.

    Also, it's very helpful to see other people struggling too.
    To see them disparagingly read the food plans, struggle to fit in the exercises and deal with emotional issue's, all on camera, really makes me admire them and helps me to continue on.

    I think OT shows real people with real lives trying to change their lives. I don't think you can say that about Biggest looser. They're all put up in a hotel with meals and exercise equipment handed to them. No work commitments or school runs, doing homework, getting the shopping after a hard day at work, cooking meals, visiting parents. How to fit it all in!!!

    In my own case I'm hoping by the end of the 8 weeks I'll be in the strong habit of exercise and eating correctly. I know I won't have achieved my goal, but I'll certainly have the tools to continue on.

    However I would have to say the ridiculous fire brigade stunt really annoyed me. I get that it's meant to build up their self esteem but I don't actually like that element of the show.

    My tuppence worth anyway!

    First off kudos for getting your weightloss started. People in Ireland are incredible ignorant (I use this in a non confrontational way) when it comes to both their own weight and also portion control. I've spoke to a lot of people about their weight recently and the common thread is "ah I look very gaunt when I'm a few stone lighter". Its such a cop out but we're not here to pressure people into change. But it does show how clueless we all are. Was the stat 2/3rds of men in Ireland are obese or overweight? I fall into that category but so many of the nation either refuse to accept it or are just oblivious to their situation.
    Portion control is something that is new to me since I started losing weight. The number one tip I'd give anyone is to buy a food scale. It will truely transform your diet.

    I suppose even if the likes of OT and BL are entertainment based it certainly gets the country talking and thinking about health and fitness. If 10 people see the show and go on to change their lives forever then the positives outweigh the negatives. Pun intended!!


  • Registered Users Posts: 39 christmasdiane


    Just wondering if the recipes on operation transformation are for two people?


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,134 ✭✭✭gubbie


    Just wondering if the recipes on operation transformation are for two people?

    I've made the Frittata which was for 2, but I made the fish pasta which was for 4... so... I dunno!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,489 ✭✭✭sh1tstirrer


    ellejay wrote: »
    I imagine Catherine Thomas spends so much time with the contestants that she is genuinely happy for them to have lost weight. Most women recognise how hard it is for another person to loose weight and are genuinely happy for them

    I can honestly tell you, it's very very hard to loose a couple of pounds, even at the beginning.
    I'm slightly following the OT plan and I can tell you, it's not easy.

    The leader Eilish admitted she wasn't considered obese in her local area. But she knew herself she needed to loose weight.

    When I say slightly, I'm doing the exercise plans and keeping to the calories but my meals aren't exactly the same, although the ingredients are similar.
    Frankly I don't have budget and time.
    With that in mind, I hope to loose 1.5 - 2 lbs a week.

    What myself and people like me get out of OT is the motivation to get up and move. I've noticed that even out walking, in my local area, everyone is now smiling and saying hello. I'd say the amount out walking has quadrupled.

    Another valuable tool from OT is the portion control!! it's so important.

    In my opinion the recipe's in OT show how you can jazz up boring ingredients so it's not just small boring meat and two veg meals.

    Also, it's very helpful to see other people struggling too.
    To see them disparagingly read the food plans, struggle to fit in the exercises and deal with emotional issue's, all on camera, really makes me admire them and helps me to continue on.

    I think OT shows real people with real lives trying to change their lives. I don't think you can say that about Biggest looser. They're all put up in a hotel with meals and exercise equipment handed to them. No work commitments or school runs, doing homework, getting the shopping after a hard day at work, cooking meals, visiting parents. How to fit it all in!!!

    In my own case I'm hoping by the end of the 8 weeks I'll be in the strong habit of exercise and eating correctly. I know I won't have achieved my goal, but I'll certainly have the tools to continue on.

    However I would have to say the ridiculous fire brigade stunt really annoyed me. I get that it's meant to build up their self esteem but I don't actually like that element of the show.

    My tuppence worth anyway!
    I was 3 stone overweight 3 years ago and lost it in 5 months using will power, it did take 3 attempts before I stuck with it but I managed to keep the weight off since. If you work at it the weight comes off fast in the start, I see a lot of people walking but they keep eating too much so don't lose much weight, I heard someone say that losing weight is 80% what you eat and 20% exercise.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 16 StoryChief87


    gubbie wrote: »
    I've made the Frittata which was for 2, but I made the fish pasta which was for 4... so... I dunno!

    I haven't watched tonight's episode yet but I'd imagine they are individual portions considering they are tailored of each contestant. I will look further into it and get back to you tomorrow. If anyone is worried about portion size in their diet the best tip I can give is get a food scale. You can get one for cheap. It'll make sure you're getting one portion as per side of any packet, container etc 😃


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