Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2014 - Mod Warning in OP, 10/12

Raif Severance · 27-11-2014 01:50PM

BenEadir wrote: »

Root cause? No, it is not singularly the root cause of the current mess we're in but then there is no single cause but continuously playing players who are under performing when the club have invested heavily in other players who can play that position must undermine the motivation of the players being left out. How must Lallana be feeling? £25m and a big contract in his absolute prime playing the AM role for England and he can't get ahead of an ageing 34 year old?

If you don't think you're going to get selected on Saturday because some sacred cows are nailed on starters it has to effect how you train and if a few players are not giving it their all in training it's contagious. I'm a big hurling fan also and the one thing you have to admire about Brian Cody over all the years is that he stayed true to the promise he made that those who are training best and showing well in practice matches will start. He never had any problem dropping the likes of Tommy Walsh and even Henry Shefflin to give others a chance to show what they could do.

Fergie, much as I hate him, also never shirked away from making tough decisoins. Remember when he dropped Jim Leighton in 1990 for the FA cup final replay?? No one could believe it but it showed that he was prepared to make bold choices and it sent two clear messages to his players:-

1. No one was undroppable
2. If you train hard and are showing form in training you'll start.

BR needs to take a few leaves out of Cody and Ferguson's book!!

This!

If Fergie or Mourinho was the Manager of Liverpool, do you think Gerrard would have played in the Ludo Game, after his Performance against Crystal Palace?

Nope.

Not only did he Play, Liverpool was Setup so he can be Accommodated. Again.

What does this say to the other Members of the Team? It means that it doesn't matter if you Work your Socks Off in Training/Game. Even if Gerrard had a Stinker, he will always be Chosen ahead of you.

That can't be Good for Team Morale.

rob316 · 27-11-2014 01:50PM

Mr Alan wrote: »

I'm quite shocked at how quickly many have totally turned against the manager they proclaimed as the messiah not too long ago.

Particularly when many of the people did nothing but give abuse to the likes of myself & Llyod for not showing blind faith and support.

You confuse turning against with criticising. I'm still behind him but the decisions he is making are baffling. I can live with loosing matches but its the manner of them and the performances are alarming.

Chucky the tree · 27-11-2014 01:56PM

Genuinely no idea why people pay any attention to Rodgers comments. What else did people expect. The players are desperately lacking confidence and we're in a position where a draw against Ludo is a good result for us. Last thing he should be doing is coming out into the media and slate the team or call it a poor performance.

MarkY91 · 27-11-2014 01:57PM

Gerrard walking around the pitch tired while having a **** performance and rodgers lets him play 90 minutes. another pathetic decision to go along with rodgers 200 already this season!

Chucky the tree · 27-11-2014 01:59PM

Mr Alan wrote: »

I'm quite shocked at how quickly many have totally turned against the manager they proclaimed as the messiah not too long ago.

Particularly when many of the people did nothing but give abuse to the likes of myself & Llyod for not showing blind faith and support.

I've no problem with people not showing blind faith an support. You didn't do that though, you went out your way to ridicule him. A huge difference.

Harry Palmr · 27-11-2014 02:06PM

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Genuinely no idea why people pay any attention to Rodgers comments. What else did people expect. The players are desperately lacking confidence and we're in a position where a draw against Ludo is a good result for us. Last thing he should be doing is coming out into the media and slate the team or call it a poor performance.

Thankfully it didn’t cost us overall and the players showed great character to come back.”

“It was very frustrating at the end but we needed to come and put on a performance to encourage us going forward and one that gave us a chance of qualifying from the group and we had both of them,” he said.

“The reaction to going behind was fantastic and we saw the real character of the team. We fell behind to a team that has been really strong at home in the Champions League and showed real spirit to come from behind. Of course, it is frustrating at the end because we had defended so well."

This is guff, Rodgers is merely protecting himself. Even the densest Liverpool player knows the difference between a good and bad performance I believe. When the manager talks about season changing performance it re-enforces the view that Rodgers has lost the plot, meanwhile those within the squad who have some 'critical reading' will shake their heads.

Agent Coulson · 27-11-2014 02:09PM

No doubt Gerrard will be the first name on the team sheet for the Stoke game.

That will be 3 games in 7 days for player who might get away with playing 90 minutes a week.

Chucky the tree · 27-11-2014 02:11PM

Harry Palmr wrote: »

This is guff, Rodgers is merely protecting himself. Even the densest Liverpool player knows the difference between a good and bad performance I believe. When the manager talks about season changing performance it re-enforces the view that Rodgers has lost the plot, meanwhile those within the squad who have some 'critical reading' will shake their heads.

They won't though. They'll be thankful for the manager backing them. Why do you think every manager in the world does the same? If he comes out a critices the players they will turn on him, and they'd be right to as well. End of the day the buck stops with the manager so him blaming the players is basically him deflecting criticism from himself and throwing him under the bus.

Harry Palmr · 27-11-2014 02:20PM

Chucky the tree wrote: »

They won't though. They'll be thankful for the manager backing them. Why do you think every manager in the world does the same? If he comes out a critices the players they will turn on him, and they'd be right to as well. End of the day the buck stops with the manager so him blaming the players is basically him deflecting criticism from himself and throwing him under the bus.

I said they'd shake their heads not actually do anything but if this carries on quietly players will turn against him for his clueless in game tactics, his poor coaching of the defence which leads to points being lost. Most players don't want to be in a relegation dogfight or to go out expecting every game to be a slog, they will start to make their views known in that classic unattributed quote fashion.

(is anyone else finding pages take ages to load?)

Ciano35 · 27-11-2014 02:33PM

Harry Palmr wrote: »

(is anyone else finding pages take ages to load?)

Nope loading fine for me

noodler · 27-11-2014 02:41PM

Mr Alan wrote: »

I'm quite shocked at how quickly many have totally turned against the manager they proclaimed as the messiah not too long ago.

Particularly when many of the same people did nothing but give abuse to the likes of myself & Llyod for not showing blind faith and support.

When the facts on the ground change...

I might be letting my general anger at Johnson get the better of me here but I was furious with his poor attempt to head the ball for their equaliser last night. It just looked like poor positoning and a pathetic jump.

Nerdlingr · 27-11-2014 02:41PM

Why all the surprise that Gerrard is starting and wont be dropped?
Mignolet has been poor for two seasons yet starts ever game.

Chucky the tree · 27-11-2014 02:57PM

Harry Palmr wrote: »

I said they'd shake their heads not actually do anything but if this carries on quietly players will turn against him for his clueless in game tactics, his poor coaching of the defence which leads to points being lost. Most players don't want to be in a relegation dogfight or to go out expecting every game to be a slog, they will start to make their views known in that classic unattributed quote fashion.

(is anyone else finding pages take ages to load?)

How many players will look at yesterdays first goal and blame it on the defence system? The players need to take a long hard look at themselves for how we have performed this season. Their manager is protecting them from a very deserved media criticism so I'm not sure they'll rock that boat any time soon.

Chucky the tree · 27-11-2014 02:58PM

Nerdlingr wrote: »

Why all the surprise that Gerrard is starting and wont be dropped?
Mignolet has been poor for two seasons yet starts ever game.

Because there are much better players who could start ahead of Gerrard. The same isn't the case for Mignolet.

Gaillimh1976 · 27-11-2014 02:59PM

Nerdlingr wrote: »

Why all the surprise that Gerrard is starting and wont be dropped?
Mignolet has been poor for two seasons yet starts ever game.

Yes, but drop Mignolet and you have to play Jones or some randomer from the youth teams

Drop Gerrard the replacement options are Can/Lucas/Lallana/Coutinho

Should be a no brainer, but ....................

noodler · 27-11-2014 03:08PM

Delighted with Toure's performance generall - or pleased at elast.

RTE tried to blame him for the first goal by saying it was his misplaced pass that led to the shot but that is really silly as it was clearly an interception he was stretching to make.

Apart from that, he did have one seriously ponderous back header.....but was otherwise solid. Toure lends so much stability to our back four.

If he does not start on Saturday I will cry.

Chucky the tree · 27-11-2014 03:10PM

noodler wrote: »

Delighted with Toure's performance generall - or pleased at elast.

RTE tried to blame him for the first goal by saying it was his misplaced pass that led to the shot but that is really silly as it was clearly an interception he was stretching to make.

Apart from that, he did have one seriously ponderous back header.....but was otherwise solid. Toure lends so much stability to our back four.

If he does not start on Saturday I will cry.

And if Lovern did that he'd have been strung up.

D'Agger · 27-11-2014 03:11PM

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

People should keep obsessing over Gerrard and Johnson if it makes them feel better I guess. It's therapy. It isn't the root cause of the issues though, no sir.

There it is

Mr Alan wrote: »

I'm quite shocked at how quickly many have totally turned against the manager they proclaimed as the messiah not too long ago.

Particularly when many of the same people did nothing but give abuse to the likes of myself & Llyod for not showing blind faith and support.

Yeah....the messiah - hyperbole much?

You got abuse for refusing to peek out from under the massive storm cloud the two of you appear to live under, for what was arguably our best season of results and football played in a long, long time.

And look at that - poor performances result in a few more dark clouds and here you both are posting your usual bait that offers nothing but pokes at others opinions.

grumpymunster · 27-11-2014 03:11PM

Chucky the tree wrote: »

They won't though. They'll be thankful for the manager backing them. Why do you think every manager in the world does the same? If he comes out a critices the players they will turn on him, and they'd be right to as well. End of the day the buck stops with the manager so him blaming the players is basically him deflecting criticism from himself and throwing him under the bus.

For sure, what a manager says in public and what he says to the team have to be in the main different. They really have to say in the media that they are working hard and moving in the right direction most of the time. When things are going wrong supporters, stock owners whatever do want something to cling onto.

I actually think Rogers is a good manager just a little inflexible at the moment which I expect is inexperience and perhaps a lack of confidence. People mention the the slip by Gerrard at the end of last season and the effect it had on him, that match must have had a profound effect on Rogers as well he would be less than human if he did not question his tactics that day. Not commenting if they were right or wrong but he must rerun it in his mind.

If Liverpool get into the knockout stages of the CL it will be a great shot in the arm but you sort of have to wonder is there a bit of player power going on with Gerrard and Johnson playing as much as they are? If they get through there is a lot to look forward to that might just loosen him up.

Nerdlingr · 27-11-2014 03:13PM

Mignolet is still a liability. And consistently playing liabilities gets you nowhere.
Someone previously mentioned Jim Leighton being dropped for the FA Cup final Replay back in 1990. His replacement was Les Sealey.
Ferguson had the balls to drop him in the biggest game of both the manager's and keeper's united career up to that point.
Bottom line is you do what is neccessary.

noodler · 27-11-2014 03:15PM

Chucky the tree wrote: »

And if Lovern did that he'd have been strung up.

I can't let one mistake take away from a couple of vital interceptions and an all-round fine aerial performance - not to mention the fact he clearly talks/organises the defence.

I see what you mean but if bad mistakes are the outlier, I still say that on average Toure's play is and has been far more secure than either of the other two's.

Why people were so quick to get rid oor not play someone with 10 years or so of CL football and an absolute shedload of titles is beyond me. Particularly when it is for someone whose general play has been as bad as Skrtel's for the last 18-24 months or someone as relatively unproven as Lovern.

Chucky the tree · 27-11-2014 03:21PM

Nerdlingr wrote: »

Mignolet is still a liability. And consistently playing liabilities gets you nowhere.
Someone previously mentioned Jim Leighton being dropped for the FA Cup final Replay back in 1990. His replacement was Les Sealey.
Ferguson had the balls to drop him in the biggest game of both the manager's and keeper's united career up to that point.
Bottom line is you do what is neccessary.

Was Les Sealey completely useless though?

Bowlardo · 27-11-2014 03:24PM

If you were gerard what would you do?
Would you head off to america/ Italy for 2/3 year and return at some stage to be coach at liverpool?
Would you sign another 2 year contract with iverpool?
Would you retire at the end of the season?

Nerdlingr · 27-11-2014 03:26PM

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Was Les Sealey completely useless though?

No. He was back up, like Brad Jones is, who got a chance and took it.

BenEadir · 27-11-2014 03:28PM

Nerdlingr wrote: »

Mignolet is still a liability. And consistently playing liabilities gets you nowhere.
Someone previously mentioned Jim Leighton being dropped for the FA Cup final Replay back in 1990. His replacement was Les Sealey.
Ferguson had the balls to drop him in the biggest game of both the manager's and keeper's united career up to that point.
Bottom line is you do what is neccessary.

It was me who referenced Fergie dropping Jim Leighton for the FA cup final replay (against Crystal Palace which Utd simply had to win or Fergie was probably out the door) and he replaced him with an on loan journeyman from Luton town called Les Seely!!

Utd won the game (thanks in no small part to Seely making a number of fine saves) and shortly afterwards Fergie signed Peter Schmeichel (for £500,000) and we all know what happened for the next 23 years after that

Chucky the tree · 27-11-2014 03:29PM

Nerdlingr wrote: »

No. He was back up, like Brad Jones is, who got a chance and took it.

You do realise there is a different standard of back-up yea?

I mean just because Petr Cech and Brad Jones are back ups doesn't mean they are the same quality.

BenEadir · 27-11-2014 03:30PM

Chucky the tree wrote: »

You do realise there is a different standard of back-up yea? I mean just because Petr Cech and Brad Jones are back ups doesn't mean they are the same quality.

Believe me, Les Seeley was no Peter Cech!!!

ush · 27-11-2014 03:31PM

Can Brad Jones really be that bad?

Nerdlingr · 27-11-2014 03:32PM

Chucky the tree wrote: »

You do realise there is a different standard of back-up yea? I mean just because Petr Cech and Brad Jones are back ups doesn't mean they are the same quality.

Yes I realise that. I never said they were. Cech has nothing to do with this so I dont know why you're bringing him up.
You realise that the point of a back up keeper is to be given a game when your keeper is consistently making mistakes or is injured yea ?

Seamu$ · 27-11-2014 03:35PM

rob316 wrote: »

Goalkeeper and striker are no.1 priority in January, if we successfully fill those positions we can still have a good season with regards Top 4 and maybe win a domestic cup.

Who am I kidding though, we will get a keeper in on loan who is worse than the current and wait for Sturridge to regain fitness only for him to break down after a few games

Requirement for defensive midfielder says hello!!

Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2014 - Mod Warning in OP, 10/12

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