Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - See Mod Warning in OP, 09/11

Johner · 27-10-2014 11:39AM

Gowlasauras Rex wrote: »

Maybe the yellow could have been influenced for the persistent fouling. Could have looked like he did it on purpose. Either way it's not an issue if he had stayed on or not. 2 defenders watched the goal go in.

Yeah from a Chelsea point of view it should been defended better regardless.

BloodBath · 27-10-2014 11:40AM

Of course, everyone has an opinion but nobody but Ivanovic knows if it was accidental or not.

Regardless if you run directly behind a player you risk clipping his heels and fouling him.

Clumsy or intentional it's a yellow card.

Larry Wildman · 27-10-2014 11:42AM

beno619 wrote: »

Mourinho didn't fancy Matic a couple of years ago. DDG couldn't get into the national side...

What's your point?

Mata wasn't fancied by Mourinho, isn't fancied by del Bosque and has been poor for United. That's three strikes.

Isolated incidents of otherwise excellent players (e.g. Matic and De Gea) not being fancied aren't relevant.

homerjay2005 · 27-10-2014 11:49AM

KH25 wrote: »

And he was wrongly sent off too. Second challenge was a yellow by all means but not the first. The victim of a very poor referee. Ivanovic had a great game otherwise.

both incidents happened about 15 metres away from me. the first card was NOT for the foul, it was for mouthing off and he walked away with the ball - the ref was blowing his whistle at him to give the ball back and he didnt, so he booked him.

the second yellow was a stonewall yellow and already on a card, he should have know better.

MagicIRL · 27-10-2014 11:50AM

Do we have a RB cover for Rafael? I think it's safe to assume he'll miss games when he notches up more and more yellow cards. I thought Smalling did a good job at CB yesterday. It's one of the first times I was watching United and felt somewhat safe when the ball came to him.

Janko plays RB for the U21s, doesn't he? I wouldn't be surprised to see him get a game or two this season if Rafael got injured. If Valencia plays there I'll cry.

homerjay2005 · 27-10-2014 11:52AM

would ye go for a sneaky low bid for Vidic in January?

i know its not going to happen, but its something that came up in prematch discussions yesterday.

wouldnt be a bad short term solution, especially if Moyes got the Inter job

KH25 · 27-10-2014 11:56AM

homerjay2005 wrote: »

both incidents happened about 15 metres away from me. the first card was NOT for the foul, it was for mouthing off and he walked away with the ball - the ref was blowing his whistle at him to give the ball back and he didnt, so he booked him.

the second yellow was a stonewall yellow and already on a card, he should have know better.

As I said already I didn't realise it was for dissent. Sky made an awful mess of that whole section. Nobody seemed to know who the booking was for at first or even what it was for in the end.

beno619 · 27-10-2014 11:58AM

Larry Wildman wrote:

What's your point?

A certain manager not finding a player suitable for the system isn't conclusive evidence that a certain player is poor/average/great.

Being voted Chelsea's player of the year in the season they won the European cup is pretty strong evidence for a certain argument though.

Larry Wildman · 27-10-2014 12:06PM

beno619 wrote: »

A certain manager not finding a player suitable for the system isn't conclusive evidence that a certain player is poor/average/great.

Being voted Chelsea's player of the year in the season they won the European cup is pretty strong evidence for a certain argument though.

Yes, not being fancied by someone in isolation isn't conclusive.

However, soon it'll be Mourinho, del Bosque and Van Gaal who'll have cast this guy aside.

Are they all wrong? The guy just doesn't do enough.

Timmyctc · 27-10-2014 12:13PM

Larry Wildman wrote: »

Yes, not being fancied by someone in isolation isn't conclusive.

However, soon it'll be Mourinho, del Bosque and Van Gaal who'll have cast this guy aside.

Are they all wrong? The guy just doesn't do enough.

Mata has played 6 times for us this season. Scored two goals and by all accounts played quite well thus far. How in King Eric's name has van Gaal cast him aside or even looked like doing that? Your post, as always, lacks basic logic sir.

On Fell.

According to the statistics, Fellaini covered 12.17km during the course of the game, almost a kilometre more than United's Daley Blind, the man next in the list.

That's more like it from a man in the middle of the park.

EDIT:

They also add this part. But I don't quite know what the arbitrary "Sprint" is.

More significantly, Fellaini also completed 70 sprints, a remarkable number for a holding midfield player and more than two Manchester United full-backs encouraged by their coach to overlap.

homerjay2005 · 27-10-2014 12:13PM

beno619 wrote: »

Being voted Chelsea's player of the year in the season they won the European cup is pretty strong evidence for a certain argument though.

theres many many examples of players who were top class and had excellent achievements, but they either lost form or changed clubs and were never seen again.

using Matas Chelsea career as a defence mechanism against people who say his form is not good enough for United, doesnt really sit well.

as a person, i absolutely love Mata, he is a really likeable guy so i find it hard to be harsh on him but right now, i dont want him in the side if everybody is fit and i hope next Sunday, thats where we are.

duffman13 · 27-10-2014 12:14PM

homerjay2005 wrote: »

would ye go for a sneaky low bid for Vidic in January?

i know its not going to happen, but its something that came up in prematch discussions yesterday.

wouldnt be a bad short term solution, especially if Moyes got the Inter job

Have you seen much of Inter? I seen a couple of games and they were atrocious at the back, not necessarily Vidics fault but he's not standing out either.

Larry Wildman · 27-10-2014 12:15PM

Timmyctc wrote: »

Mata has played 6 times for us this season. Scored two goals and by all accounts played quite well thus far. How in King Eric's name has van Gaal cast him aside or even looked like doing that? Your post, as always, lacks basic logic sir.

On Fell.

That's more like it from a man in the middle of the park.

Mata will be cast aside by Van Gaal by the end of the season...you can see his United career evaporating week by week.

Deiseboy01 · 27-10-2014 12:16PM

BloodBath wrote: »

I've been saying Mata isn't good enough for quite a while now. I haven't seen anything from him in a United jersey to suggest he's good enough. The last 3 managers seem to agree as well since he's not first choice for any of them.

Saying that I though he performed better than usual yesterday. He got himself into some good positions and actually made some effort defensively. I even seen him make a block near our box. How often do you see that?

He delivered a sweet pass to Di Maria as well creating a good goal scoring opportunity and he could have had a goal if Van Persie had squared the ball to him on one of his shots. He was wide open in the middle of the box.

He's still a great player to have as back up but will he be happy being second choice? He would get more game time with more competitions next year but I have a feeling he would be suited to Spain or somewhere where his defensive liabilities won't be as much of a problem.

Where does this idea come from that a lack of defensive ability is not an issue in Spain? Applies equally in every league. In Spain you've the likes of Barca, Athletico, Bilbao etc. Playing a highly focused game all about being defensively minded, regaining the ball immediately once its been lost. High intensity pressing. Mata would struggle equally in most top sides Europe wide in that regard.

glued · 27-10-2014 12:19PM

homerjay2005 wrote: »

would ye go for a sneaky low bid for Vidic in January?

i know its not going to happen, but its something that came up in prematch discussions yesterday.

wouldnt be a bad short term solution, especially if Moyes got the Inter job

We should be looking to bring someone in. I'm not at all convinced by Rojo but you'd hope we'd get one starting center back from Evans, Rojo, Smalling, Jones, Blackett and McNair. I don't think we'll get someone in during the Winter window and hopefully by next summer we have 3 decent center backs. Sell the least promising of the rest of the bunch and bring in a world class center back. We're probably carrying too many defenders at the minute and the problem is that they're all injury prone too.

Either way it's time to sink or swim for a lot of these guys.

Larry Wildman · 27-10-2014 12:20PM

Guys like Xavi and Iniesta work hard.

Fabregas works hard.

Mata does not work hard.

Yes he's likeable but if that was the only basis for playing for United, we'd have Ant & Dec playing up front.

MagicIRL · 27-10-2014 12:20PM

The key difference over these two games (West Brom & Chelsea) is that Fellaini is playing as an attacking midfielder with a quality DM behind him.

Under Moyes, Fellaini was shoe-horned in to the Defensive Midfield role which he just couldn't do. This became pretty evident and Moyes then deployed him (if I remember correctly) as a #10 or even as a striker once or twice to try and get something out of him. Neither of these worked while at United, despite Fellaini having some success as the target man at Everton.

Now we're seeing him playing that box-to-box role and he's looked impressive in both his games in said position this season. It's going to offer a lot of options in midfield. Having Blind (Carrick) and Herrera/Fellaini available for that box to box role will serve us well, especially with the height and strength Fellaini brings to the team.

Dust off the wigs, lads!

Deiseboy01 · 27-10-2014 12:27PM

homerjay2005 wrote: »

ive said this a couple of times before, but if i could sign one defender for United, it would be this man. he can play accross the back 4, solid as f*ck and has a threat in the final 3rd also.

Yesterday just confirmed it for me. he is a super player.

Totally agree, one of the most underrated players in the league and his consistency is amazing. Brilliant signing and iirc not a massive price tag? Which manager signed hin?

glued · 27-10-2014 12:29PM

Larry Wildman wrote: »

Guys like Xavi and Iniesta work hard.

Fabregas works hard.

Mata does not work hard.

Yes he's likeable but if that was the only basis for playing for United, we'd have Ant & Dec playing up front.

Mata does work hard. You've just bitten off and chewed the typical Sky Sports-Mourinho fed rhetoric.

kryogen · 27-10-2014 12:29PM

KH25 wrote: »

And he was wrongly sent off too. Second challenge was a yellow by all means but not the first. The victim of a very poor referee. Ivanovic had a great game otherwise.

He lived close to the edge for most of the game, but a serious player

KH25 · 27-10-2014 12:32PM

kryogen wrote: »

He lived close to the edge for most of the game, but a serious player

A lot of the best live on the edge though. Occupational hazard as a defender really.

CantonasCollar · 27-10-2014 12:36PM

Giggsy11 wrote: »

Mata was played in his best position.

Rafael is not a liability. He was very good yesterday, he was booked around 6th min mark but didn't commit a foul (I think) for the whole 80 odd mins playing against Hazard.

Maybe liability was the wrong word. More and more I find that he does something avoidable to tarnish what has otherwise been a good performance. He is the best we have a RB, expectations are just so high after having GNev there for so many years.

Just going to have to disagree about Mata.

newballsplease · 27-10-2014 12:42PM

Havent posted here in a while or havent read the thread in a while but wanted to say, i was never a fan of Fellaini as a Utd player. I wanted him gone with Moyes.

But if he can perform like he did yesterday on a continous basis he can be a great player for Utd. Thought he was excellent yesterday.

DM_7 · 27-10-2014 12:44PM

Rojo should improve when he gets used to the league. He has struggled when the ball is played long as he is not sure what to do, at this stage he has not played with any of the other centre backs enough to have confidence to go and meet the ball.

Once he plays more in England and gets to know the opposition players as well as his team mates he should be much better and more decisive.

Losing Vidic, Evra and Ferdinand in one summer was always going to have an impact on a cohesive defence. From just knowing the league and the players all knowing what to expect to things like guidance before a match on how to play against opponents.

Smalling on Rio for example:

“I was talking to Rio on Friday and he was giving me little pointers. He has played with and against Carlos Tevez for many years and seen him in training every day for a couple of years so he was giving me little bits of advice on how to play him.

“He was making the point that Carlos likes to feel the defenders at his back. So you let him have his touch before you move in and go for him. It was great advice because he is a tricky player. It was a really good challenge for me.

“To have that knowledge to tap into is incredible. You get so much feedback with players you are playing with, players who are injured like Rio and the many coaches we have. It really puts me at ease and allows you to enjoy the occasion.

beno619 · 27-10-2014 12:46PM

homerjay2005 wrote:

using Matas Chelsea career as a defence mechanism against people who say his form is not good enough for United, doesnt really sit well.

Oh I agree one hundred percent.

The argument being put forward by some posters is Mata isn't good enough for the club which is plain outrageous.

I would agree that his time at the club has been below par.

beno619 · 27-10-2014 12:48PM

glued wrote:

Mata does work hard. You've just bitten off and chewed the typical Sky Sports-Mourinho fed rhetoric.

Did some great defensive with yesterday IMO.

newballsplease · 27-10-2014 12:51PM

homerjay2005 wrote: »

would ye go for a sneaky low bid for Vidic in January?

i know its not going to happen, but its something that came up in prematch discussions yesterday.

wouldnt be a bad short term solution, especially if Moyes got the Inter job

How stupid would that make the club look in fairness?!

Non runner

beno619 · 27-10-2014 12:53PM

Anyway the elephant in the room is still RVP.

Though he was below par yesterday and his goal probably gives him another week or two before people really get on his back.

Giggsy11 · 27-10-2014 12:55PM

beno619 wrote: »

Mourinho signed him and never played him.

He was signed in 2009 (as per wiki) Jose was sacked in 2008.

Fuhrer · 27-10-2014 12:56PM

beno619 wrote: »

Anyway the elephant in the room is still RVP.

Though he was below par yesterday and his goal probably gives him another week or two before people really get on his back.

Yesterday was the best hes played in a long time, even discounting the goal his hold up play, and runs were great for the most part.

His finishing could be better though.

Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - See Mod Warning in OP, 09/11

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