Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2014 - Mod Note in OP, 1/09

Talisman · 23-10-2014 11:03AM

We played at a pedestrian pace last night and the passing lacked conviction. There was very little right about the team - the transitions were slow and the team mentality is still stuck in a rut - players act like Suarez and Sturridge are playing up front. Last season a lot of our quick play was get the ball forward to Sturridge and Suarez, then stand back and watch the opposition panic. Last night we witnessed the same thing - lump the ball for Balotelli and see what happens. There were a few times that Balotelli got possession and there was no support for him - no runs from midfield, no support from the fullback. He is not Suarez and he doesn't have Sturridge as a partner. The whole thing about the shirt swap is pure bollix, media headlines for yet another Balotelli non-story. He's the scapegoat but he's not the source of the problem.

The time has come to get rid of the quarter back role for Gerrard and inject energy into the midfield. He acts as a third centre back in possession and when he drops deep so we lose a man in midfield, that's one less option for Rodgers' sacred passing triangles that he lectured about when he first joined the club as manager. If that's the role Rodgers sees for Gerrard then it's time to bite the bullet and start playing him as a centre back - drop Skrtel and in the process eliminate a large portion of the defensive lapses.

When he first arrived at the club Joe Allen played as the fulcrum of the midfield - simple passes that kept things moving, similar to how Toni Kroos plays for Real Madrid. The defensive side of his game got shown up in a match against Man Utd because Ferguson setup his team to smother Allen and isolate him, that is something Allen and Rodgers needed to adapt to. But instead we got Allen moved further forward into central midfield where he does more running, less passing and more frequently finds himself in positions where he is expected to take opportunities to shoot on goal. He's not a goal scoring midfielder and there is a hesitation / element of panic every time he finds himself in the position. Joe Allen finds himself in situations that Adam Lallana is more suited to so it would make sense to play Lallana in Allen's current position. Sort out the midfield and the team might begin to perform.

As for the defensive errors they were individual mistakes - Skrtel, Johnson and Mignolet. How many times are we undone by such errors by the same individuals?

kevohmsford · 23-10-2014 11:04AM

I wonder how much more money Rodgers will be given before the owners say no more. We needed more players in the squad this year but he has not improved our starting 11.

gafferino · 23-10-2014 11:07AM

kevohmsford wrote: »

I wonder how much more money Rodgers will be given before the owners say no more. We needed more players in the squad this year but he has not improved our starting 11.

Barring absolute disaster (8th or below) Rodgers will be here this season and next season.

Turtyturd · 23-10-2014 11:10AM

The worrying thing for me about 'The Rodgers' is that he seems to have lost his ability to change the game.

Last season a lot of games followed the same blueprint, we hit them from the outset til the middle of the first half, the opposition come back at us, half time. At half time I was always convinced that he could adapt the formation/line up and we would get something from the game, that's completely gone this season, about 10 games later and he hasn't figured out Balotelli needs a strike partner.

Grayditch · 23-10-2014 11:14AM

I'm glad it was only 3-0. If they didn't have Barca in a few days, and that was in the knockout stages, they would have murdered us.

So, that was us trying our absolute best, and them in 3rd gear, and they still won by 3. Jesus. We're so far off swingin' with the big dicks, it's disheartening. I've no idea how we'll finish in the top 4 with our defence that bad. Last season we had a dangerous offence who tidied up mess after mess at the back. Now it's like we have nothing.

We'll see what happens when Sturridge is back, but I wouldn't hold my breath, it won't change just how bad we are defensively.

BoardsMember · 23-10-2014 11:15AM

Talisman wrote: »

We played at a pedestrian pace last night and the passing lacked conviction. There was very little right about the team - the transitions were slow and the team mentality is still stuck in a rut - players act like Suarez and Sturridge are playing up front. Last season a lot of our quick play was get the ball forward to Sturridge and Suarez, then stand back and watch the opposition panic. Last night we witnessed the same thing - lump the ball for Balotelli and see what happens. There were a few times that Balotelli got possession and there was no support for him - no runs from midfield, no support from the fullback. He is not Suarez and he doesn't have Sturridge as a partner. The whole thing about the shirt swap is pure bollix, media headlines for yet another Balotelli non-story. He's the scapegoat but he's not the source of the problem.

The time has come to get rid of the quarter back role for Gerrard and inject energy into the midfield. He acts as a third centre back in possession and when he drops deep so we lose a man in midfield, that's one less option for Rodgers' sacred passing triangles that he lectured about when he first joined the club as manager. If that's the role Rodgers sees for Gerrard then it's time to bite the bullet and start playing him as a centre back - drop Skrtel and in the process eliminate a large portion of the defensive lapses.

When he first arrived at the club Joe Allen played as the fulcrum of the midfield - simple passes that kept things moving, similar to how Toni Kroos plays for Real Madrid. The defensive side of his game got shown up in a match against Man Utd because Ferguson setup his team to smother Allen and isolate him, that is something Allen and Rodgers needed to adapt to. But instead we got Allen moved further forward into central midfield where he does more running, less passing and more frequently finds himself in positions where he is expected to take opportunities to shoot on goal. He's not a goal scoring midfielder and there is a hesitation / element of panic every time he finds himself in the position. Joe Allen finds himself in situations that Adam Lallana is more suited to so it would make sense to play Lallana in Allen's current position. Sort out the midfield and the team might begin to perform.

As for the defensive errors they were individual mistakes - Skrtel, Johnson and Mignolet. How many times are we undone by such errors by the same individuals?

This sums it up for me. Re Gerrard, I think we would quickly see he's not able to play CB at the highest level because he wouldn't track back, but at least it would put paid to this absolutely failed experiment of him playing as a quarterback midfielder.

benny79 · 23-10-2014 11:16AM

UNITED are only 1 point behind us for all their troubles. and with a aging squad with a new manager in his first season! this is BR's 3rd season so yes I do think we would of being better off buying 2 or 3 Quality Players, plus that's what CL football is about you attract the best players to your club! We mighten have it next season and the good players we have will be jumping ship to teams that can offer it to them. That's football. Were still one of the biggest clubs around if you want to be the best you have to compete with the best and that applies in the transfer market!

Pyjamarama · 23-10-2014 11:19AM

People keep saying that we haven't improved the first 11 at all are wrong. Our 1st 11 is clearly far weaker than last year without Luis and Danny but Moreno is a clear upgrade at left back.

As for Rodgers being more pardew than paisley and saying you've felt that way the majority of the time. For 18 months (after inheriting a shambles) he has us playing football that was champions level. And a good portion of ot without Luis. It's funny that it's the same posters who threw strops when he got the job that are first to get on his back. You'd swear he was working under no restrictions financially... We should have bought messi Ronaldo and neymar.

Hangballlouie · 23-10-2014 11:35AM

Pyjamarama wrote: »

People keep saying that we haven't improved the first 11 at all are wrong. Our 1st 11 is clearly far weaker than last year without Luis and Danny but Moreno is a clear upgrade at left back.

As for Rodgers being more pardew than paisley and saying you've felt that way the majority of the time. For 18 months (after inheriting a shambles) he has us playing football that was champions level. And a good portion of ot without Luis. It's funny that it's the same posters who threw strops when he got the job that are first to get on his back. You'd swear he was working under no restrictions financially... We should have bought messi Ronaldo and neymar.

I didn't throw any strop when he got the job and have been supportive, just not to the extent where people think he's the second coming.

Financial restrictions? He spent an absolute fortune in his 2 and a bit years. Suarez played 33 league games for each of the last two seasons, hardly a good portion.

He is showing me that he cannot learn from his mistakes and fundamentally he can't set up a team correctly. He's also an oul'one with no backbone to drop/rest influential dressing room players.

I've said before he's a good manager, but he isn't a great manager and as much as I was hoping he'd prove that he is great, unfortunately it isn't gonna happen.

Pyjamarama · 23-10-2014 11:41AM

hangballlouie wrote: »

I didn't throw any strop when he got the job and have been supportive, just not to the extent where people think he's the second coming.

Financial restrictions? He spent an absolute fortune in his 2 and a bit years. Suarez played 33 league games for each of the last two seasons, hardly a good portion.

He is showing me that he cannot learn from his mistakes and fundamentally he can't set up a team correctly. He's also an oul'one with no backbone to drop/rest influential dressing room players.

I've said before he's a good manager, but he isn't a great manager and as much as I was hoping he'd prove that he is great, unfortunately it isn't gonna happen.

Has he really spent a fortune tho?!? He's spent money but our wage cap is an issue. Have any other teams in the top 4 spent less with better results?!?

Hangballlouie · 23-10-2014 11:44AM

£212 mill on 25 players in two years. How many of them have made an impact?

noodler · 23-10-2014 11:47AM

We all distinctly remember games last season when we didn't have Suarez,

Stoke (H), Villa (A), UTD (H), Swansea (A).

Theres more of course, they just come to mind as the opening four.

We weren't free flowing or anything but there was a certain stability the performance.

God, I just pray we get Sturridge fit for ten games in a row to have a comparative sample.

That said, it is unhealthy to rely on this heavily on one of last year's signings after spending well over 100m.

ricero · 23-10-2014 11:47AM

Come back john flanno and save us. Also Sturridge to would be nice

noodler · 23-10-2014 11:48AM

hangballlouie wrote: »

£212 mill on 25 players in two years. How many of them have made an impact?

Have you a list?

I am a little shaky on which ones were signed when.

Hangballlouie · 23-10-2014 11:49AM

noodler wrote: »

Have you a list?

I am a little shaky on which ones were signed when.

http://www.lfchistory.net/Transfers/ByManager/25-1

Pighead · 23-10-2014 11:50AM

hangballlouie wrote: »

£212 mill on 25 players in two years. How many of them have made an impact?

Four at a push so far. Arguments could be made for Lallana, Coutinho, Sturridge and Allen although Sturridge is probably the only one from that list which can be called a 100% hit.

Hangballlouie · 23-10-2014 11:51AM

Pighead wrote: »

Four at a push so far. Arguments could be made for Lallana, Coutinho, Sturridge and Allen although Sturridge is probably the only one from that list which can be called a 100% hit.

And Rodgers didn't wanna sign him.

Vicxas · 23-10-2014 11:55AM

hangballlouie wrote: »

£212 mill on 25 players in two years. How many of them have made an impact?

Couthino and Sturridge?

Joe Allen has been quite good too.

Agent Coulson · 23-10-2014 11:58AM

But but but but but but but etc etc etc.....isn't there a transfer commettee that takes the blame for all those signings not Brendan!!!!!!!!

Hangballlouie · 23-10-2014 11:58AM

Vicxas wrote: »

Couthino and Sturridge?

Joe Allen has been quite good too.

So a 10% strike-rate? Not great is it?

Harry Palmr · 23-10-2014 12:07PM

Agent Coulson wrote: »

But but but but but but but etc etc etc.....isn't there a transfer commettee that takes the blame for all those signings not Brendan!!!!!!!!

Be interesting to know what the dynamic is there, is Rodgers able to sign off transfers on his own? Does he have the power to set out the criteria for player types without question? How much of this is compromised? Is the committee making things worse than would otherwise be the case, or is it actually stopping Rodgers making errors? Stuff I'd love to know.

Agent Coulson · 23-10-2014 12:08PM

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Be interesting to know what the dynamic is there, is Rodgers able to sign off transfers on his own? Does he have the power to set out the criteria for player types without question? How much of this is compromised? Is the committee making things worse than would otherwise be the case, or is it actually stopping Rodgers making errors? Stuff I'd love to know.

Or a very simple thing like is there really a committee.

Turtyturd · 23-10-2014 12:11PM

It will all be in his autobiography 'The Rodgers' says...

K-9 · 23-10-2014 12:13PM

J Mysterio wrote: »

Coutinho was at fault for the second goal, though he was probably one of the best players on the pitch. The problem with him is he always trys to start an attack no matter where he receives the ball - even if he has got it in a poor position.

That's really a double edged sword. When the play is broken up, as he likes, he can find a great pass and really make something happen. Conversely, he can really cause us problems if he loses the ball as the team arent prepared for another phase of attack.

I dont think Benzema was heading at goal - I think he was heading across goal - but that chance came about because Coutinho was trying to start a counter from the edge of our own box.

I would say that maybe that should be coached out of him but i'm not sure.

We lost the ball an incredible amount of times on the left full back area, I don't think it was down to one particular player, just players being too intricate or clever rather than just hoofing it. I suppose the problem is there's little point hoofing it either as Mario isn't really an out ball.

Sterling seemed to me to be trying too hard last night. He wanted to turn and attack all the time when a good few times he'd have been better holding onto it and waiting for support.

MR NINE · 23-10-2014 12:14PM

T-K-O wrote: »

I coming round to this idea.However what is Begovic like with the ball at his feet? I think the passing out from the back has Migolnet on edge and his overall game suffers.

I couldnt really give a **** tbh. Im sure he can kick and pass, i dont want him to pick out strikers and play through balls etc. i want someone who commands his area, claims crosses etc. this whole lark of a keeper needing to be good with the ball at his feet is a myth. Its a nice plus if theyre skillful but its one of the least important attributes a keeper can have imo.

LuckyLloyd · 23-10-2014 12:16PM

Harry Palmr wrote: »

LL is a megaphone/sloganeering poster. You'll not get much else out of him at times like this except flecks of enraged spittle. You'd think Liverpool were on equal terms with Real Madrid or something.

You want to make out we are a lower division side or something. We ARE in the same league as Real. They narrowly missed out on La Liga last year, us the EPL.

Sometimes it isn't a matter of complication or nuance. People trying to look at positives aren't bring rational here. We turned in another hapless performance, and it is concerning and frustrating. End of.

Vicxas · 23-10-2014 12:17PM

hangballlouie wrote: »

So a 10% strike-rate? Not great is it?

God no, ive always had a thorn in my side about Rodgers signing policy. Very miss.

Turtyturd · 23-10-2014 12:19PM

MR NINE wrote: »

I couldnt really give a **** tbh. Im sure he can kick and pass, i dont want him to pick out strikers and play through balls etc. i want someone who commands his area, claims crosses etc. this whole lark of a keeper needing to be good with the ball at his feet is a myth. Its a nice plus if theyre skillful but its one of the least important attributes a keeper can have imo.

One of the most annoying myths in football. Surely anyone who plays football every day regardless of the position can pass the ball 15-20 yards.

K-9 · 23-10-2014 12:21PM

Jaysus, I know a few fans never rated Rodgers, but I though it wouldn't turn this quickly.

We're fourth, not playing well and no Sturridge, we always improve as the season goes on with Rodgers, we've a great chance of getting to the knock out round, albeit with a bit of luck last night.

MD1990 · 23-10-2014 12:23PM

I think Rodgers will turn it around he is a very good managaer but his weakness is his signings. Not getting Sanchez was such a huge blow imo.

Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2014 - Mod Note in OP, 1/09

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